470 réponses à ce sujet

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

Because that's totally a scenario politicians go through on a day to day basis. Picking explosion colors from literal deus ex machinas.

no, Politicians have to make tough choices, knowing that no matter what they decide, someone, somewhere is going to get hurt by it.

If all Politicians just stopped doing there job because they did not want to harm a single portion of their nation, the world would immediately fall into Chaos

Comparing a desicion by a politician to genocide of 1.5 billion.
<_<

life is about sacrifices, if you do not commit said Genocide everyone dies, no matter what


"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

It's not a sacrifice, its genocide to ensure you win a war. If I'm going to win, its on my terms, not the catalyst. 

it is Sacrifice because it saves all othger species. If anything Refusal is genocide because you are sentencing the entire Galaxy to death.

think of History, around the time of King Henry VIII (i think that was the right king), england was in a large war with France. King Henry made a deal with the Spanish where there forces would make the first charge, lowering there number crucially doing so. using your logic Kin Henry VIII was commiting Genocide of the Spanish.

It is a large scale sacrifice, but either way it is a sacrifice, not a genocide

[DarthSliver]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

And you would commit Genocide to win a war.

I am pretty sure if Legion was there with me he would tell me to pick destroy. The Geth would understand that it was the only way, i feel bad for it all the way because I was willing to off the Quarians because they keep doing stupid crap like start another war with the Geth.

[Joe Del Toro]

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

Every time with this. Sod off.

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

Because that's totally a scenario politicians go through on a day to day basis. Picking explosion colors from literal deus ex machinas.

no, Politicians have to make tough choices, knowing that no matter what they decide, someone, somewhere is going to get hurt by it.

If all Politicians just stopped doing there job because they did not want to harm a single portion of their nation, the world would immediately fall into Chaos

Comparing a desicion by a politician to genocide of 1.5 billion.
<_<

life is about sacrifices, if you do not commit said Genocide everyone dies, no matter what


"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

It's not a sacrifice, its genocide to ensure you win a war. If I'm going to win, its on my terms, not the catalyst. 

it is Sacrifice because it saves all othger species. If anything Refusal is genocide because you are sentencing the entire Galaxy to death.

think of History, around the time of King Henry VIII (i think that was the right king), england was in a large war with France. King Henry made a deal with the Spanish where there forces would make the first charge, lowering there number crucially doing so. using your logic Kin Henry VIII was commiting Genocide of the Spanish.

It is a large scale sacrifice, but either way it is a sacrifice, not a genocide

It's genocide because you shooting a tube knowing it will the Geth, whether you take pleasure doing in it or not. Also by your logic, every civilazation what in history that went down fighting, their leaders can be accused for genocide, not the killers.

[Grimwick]

Destroy is a choice offered by the SC? Although i personally prefer destroy there is no actual logical reasoning as to choosing it over refuse.

Unless you meta-game...

[The Genophage]

DarthSliver wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

And you would commit Genocide to win a war.

I am pretty sure if Legion was there with me he would tell me to pick destroy. The Geth would understand that it was the only way, i feel bad for it all the way because I was willing to off the Quarians because they keep doing stupid crap like start another war with the Geth.

Incorrect, Legion fears extinction, the Geth fear extinction, thats the reason they teamed up with the Reapers in both occations.

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

Because that's totally a scenario politicians go through on a day to day basis. Picking explosion colors from literal deus ex machinas.

no, Politicians have to make tough choices, knowing that no matter what they decide, someone, somewhere is going to get hurt by it.

If all Politicians just stopped doing there job because they did not want to harm a single portion of their nation, the world would immediately fall into Chaos

Comparing a desicion by a politician to genocide of 1.5 billion.
<_<

life is about sacrifices, if you do not commit said Genocide everyone dies, no matter what


"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

It's not a sacrifice, its genocide to ensure you win a war. If I'm going to win, its on my terms, not the catalyst. 

it is Sacrifice because it saves all othger species. If anything Refusal is genocide because you are sentencing the entire Galaxy to death.

think of History, around the time of King Henry VIII (i think that was the right king), england was in a large war with France. King Henry made a deal with the Spanish where there forces would make the first charge, lowering there number crucially doing so. using your logic Kin Henry VIII was commiting Genocide of the Spanish.

It is a large scale sacrifice, but either way it is a sacrifice, not a genocide

It's genocide because you shooting a tube knowing it will the Geth, whether you take pleasure doing in it or not. Also by your logic, every civilazation what in history that went down fighting, their leaders can be accused for genocide, not the killers.

and the Allies sent there force to the beaches on Normandy knowing many of there troops would die, is that genocide?

it would only count as Genocide if it did not help the other species in anyway, but as the Geth dieing saves every other race in the Galaxy, it is Sacrifice and not Genocide.

anyways, im done argueing, ive got a meeting to get to

[DistantUtopia]

Ok, playing devil's advocate for Refuse. If in WW2 the ****'s were steamrolling the allies and all of a sudden, Indiana Jones finds an archealogical site which details finding the Ark of the Covenant to defeat the ****s.

Indy then finds out he has to combine the Ark with the Crystal skull in order to defeat the ****s.

Indy combines the Ark and Crystal Skull but gets a floating Swastika that tells him that the Skull is his home and that the ****s are his solution to chaos. Now that he knows the ****'s won't work any more, he gives Indy 4 choices:

1.) Control the ****s
2.) Destroy the ****s but at the cost of one Allied country
3.) Turn everyone into a blend of Aryan/non-Aryan (assuming the whole reason for the war was genetics).
4.) Refuse to accept the Swastika's logic and fight on even if it meant you may actually be fighting a lost cause.

What would Indy choose?

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

Because that's totally a scenario politicians go through on a day to day basis. Picking explosion colors from literal deus ex machinas.

no, Politicians have to make tough choices, knowing that no matter what they decide, someone, somewhere is going to get hurt by it.

If all Politicians just stopped doing there job because they did not want to harm a single portion of their nation, the world would immediately fall into Chaos

Comparing a desicion by a politician to genocide of 1.5 billion.
<_<

life is about sacrifices, if you do not commit said Genocide everyone dies, no matter what


"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

It's not a sacrifice, its genocide to ensure you win a war. If I'm going to win, its on my terms, not the catalyst. 

it is Sacrifice because it saves all othger species. If anything Refusal is genocide because you are sentencing the entire Galaxy to death.

think of History, around the time of King Henry VIII (i think that was the right king), england was in a large war with France. King Henry made a deal with the Spanish where there forces would make the first charge, lowering there number crucially doing so. using your logic Kin Henry VIII was commiting Genocide of the Spanish.

It is a large scale sacrifice, but either way it is a sacrifice, not a genocide

It's genocide because you shooting a tube knowing it will the Geth, whether you take pleasure doing in it or not. Also by your logic, every civilazation what in history that went down fighting, their leaders can be accused for genocide, not the killers.

and the Allies sent there force to the beaches on Normandy knowing many of there troops would die, is that genocide?

it would only count as Genocide if it did not help the other species in anyway, but as the Geth dieing saves every other race in the Galaxy, it is Sacrifice and not Genocide.

anyways, im done argueing, ive got a meeting to get to

That's wrong, look up the meating of Genocide in a dictionary.

[DarthSliver]

The Genophage wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

And you would commit Genocide to win a war.

I am pretty sure if Legion was there with me he would tell me to pick destroy. The Geth would understand that it was the only way, i feel bad for it all the way because I was willing to off the Quarians because they keep doing stupid crap like start another war with the Geth.

Incorrect, Legion fears extinction, the Geth fear extinction, thats the reason they teamed up with the Reapers in both occations.

Of course the Geth fear extinction but they would still do what it takes to wipe out the Reaper Threat. But we actually dont know what Legion would do because he had to sacrifice himself to save all other Geth and make them True AI. 

And its not Genocide when your intention is to wipe out the Reapers not the Geth, it cant be helped that the beam that will destroy the Reapers will also hurt your Geth friends. 

[arial]

DistantUtopia wrote...

Ok, playing devil's advocate for Refuse. If in WW2 the ****'s were steamrolling the allies and all of a sudden, Indiana Jones finds an archealogical site which details finding the Ark of the Covenant to defeat the ****s.

Indy then finds out he has to combine the Ark with the Crystal skull in order to defeat the ****s.

Indy combines the Ark and Crystal Skull but gets a floating Swastika that tells him that the Skull is his home and that the ****s are his solution to chaos. Now that he knows the ****'s won't work any more, he gives Indy 4 choices:

1.) Control the ****s
2.) Destroy the ****s but at the cost of one Allied country
3.) Turn everyone into a blend of Aryan/non-Aryan (assuming the whole reason for the war was genetics).
4.) Refuse to accept the Swastika's logic and fight on even if it meant you may actually be fighting a lost cause.

What would Indy choose?

but with Shepard its not a "possible" lost war, it is a "absolute" lost war.

yesterday a guy made a great post listing the reapers and allied forces and crunched the math, showing Conventional victory was impossible (ill try and find the link)

[The Genophage]

DarthSliver wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.

so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

And you would commit Genocide to win a war.

I am pretty sure if Legion was there with me he would tell me to pick destroy. The Geth would understand that it was the only way, i feel bad for it all the way because I was willing to off the Quarians because they keep doing stupid crap like start another war with the Geth.

Incorrect, Legion fears extinction, the Geth fear extinction, thats the reason they teamed up with the Reapers in both occations.

Of course the Geth fear extinction but they would still do what it takes to wipe out the Reaper Threat. But we actually dont know what Legion would do because he had to sacrifice himself to save all other Geth and make them True AI. 

And its not Genocide when your intention is to wipe out the Reapers not the Geth, it cant be helped that the beam that will destroy the Reapers will also hurt your Geth friends. 

They wouldn't agree for them to be wipe out to ensur victory in a war thats nonsense. And yes, its Genocide, You know very well that it will kill the geth in the process, you have other options, but you decide to go trough with it, its genocide.

[arial]

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]arial wrote...

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]arial wrote...

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]arial wrote...

[quote]The Genophage wrote...

[quote]arial wrote...

[quote]EsterCloat wrote...

[quote]arial wrote...

[quote]Joe Del Toro wrote...

I'm a Refuser, and I appreciate this line of thought, OP. I just hate the arbitrary penalty of 'woops Geth dead now lol' because I dare to actually kill the Reapers. I refuse to partake in that.[/quote]so you would Sacrifice every living thing instead of just one species?

please, pleeaase do not go into politics

[/quote]Because that's totally a scenario politicians go through on a day to day basis. Picking explosion colors from literal deus ex machinas.

[/quote]no, Politicians have to make tough choices, knowing that no matter what they decide, someone, somewhere is going to get hurt by it.

If all Politicians just stopped doing there job because they did not want to harm a single portion of their nation, the world would immediately fall into Chaos

[/quote]Comparing a desicion by a politician to genocide of 1.5 billion.
<_<

[/quote]life is about sacrifices, if you do not commit said Genocide everyone dies, no matter what


"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

[/quote]It's not a sacrifice, its genocide to ensure you win a war. If I'm going to win, its on my terms, not the catalyst. 
[/quote]it is Sacrifice because it saves all othger species. If anything Refusal is genocide because you are sentencing the entire Galaxy to death.

think of History, around the time of King Henry VIII (i think that was the right king), england was in a large war with France. King Henry made a deal with the Spanish where there forces would make the first charge, lowering there number crucially doing so. using your logic Kin Henry VIII was commiting Genocide of the Spanish.

It is a large scale sacrifice, but either way it is a sacrifice, not a genocide
[/quote]It's genocide because you shooting a tube knowing it will the Geth, whether you take pleasure doing in it or not. Also by your logic, every civilazation what in history that went down fighting, their leaders can be accused for genocide, not the killers.
[/quote]and the Allies sent there force to the beaches on Normandy knowing many of there troops would die, is that genocide?

it would only count as Genocide if it did not help the other species in anyway, but as the Geth dieing saves every other race in the Galaxy, it is Sacrifice and not Genocide.

anyways, im done argueing, ive got a meeting to get to

[/quote]That's wrong, look up the meating of Genocide in a dictionary.
[/quote]I have, you go look up the meaning of "Mass Sacrifice"

[D24O]

inb4quotepyramids

oh wait

[lillitheris]

DistantUtopia wrote...

 even if it meant you may actually be fighting a lost cause.

Charming analogy aside, it is a lost cause. There is no question about it. You will lose. Your friends will get hurt, they will mourn others who died, and in the end…they will die.

[arial]

it is only Genocide if killing the Geth was the goal, if it is collateral damage from destroying the Reapers then it is Sacrifice

Modifié par arial, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:23 .

[The Genophage]

@Arial

Mass sacrifice is not a word, also, you obviously still don't know what Genocide is, because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing this.

[DistantUtopia]

DarthSliver wrote...
Of course the Geth fear extinction but they would still do what it takes to wipe out the Reaper Threat. But we actually dont know what Legion would do because he had to sacrifice himself to save all other Geth and make them True AI. 

And its not Genocide when your intention is to wipe out the Reapers not the Geth, it cant be helped that the beam that will destroy the Reapers will also hurt your Geth friends. 

Still Genocide:

Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

So yes, it's a deliberate destruction of the Geth to serve the greater good (i.e. the rest of the galaxy).  You KNOW it will happen; the catalyst says so.  If you didn't know (i.e. the Catalyst does not say it will), then it's a casualty of war but the way it's presented now it's Genocide.

Destroy would have been presented so much better, IMO, if the Catalyst did not say what destroy would do and instead we were shown through the EC the Geth and EDI suddenly dying in the red blast.

[Shepardtheshepard]

arial wrote...
"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - Spock

"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few." - Sentinel Prime

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

@Arial

Mass sacrifice is not a word, also, you obviously still don't know what Genocide is, because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing this.

I do know what it means, I did an essay in University about the Rwanda Genocide of 1994.

It is only Genocide if your goal was to kill them off,  if they are colateral damage it is a sacrifice

Modifié par arial, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:26 .

[OGWS]

To those saying "genocide to win a war", this isn't a war, it is extinction, saving every other sentient race ever is different than defeating an opponent for territory or political gains.

Not saying it is right or wrong, not gonna pick a side for the endings, just saying

[Joe Del Toro]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Arial

Mass sacrifice is not a word, also, you obviously still don't know what Genocide is, because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing this.

I do know what it means, I did an essay in University about the Rwanda Genocide of 1994.

It is only Genocide if your goal was to kill them off,  if they are colateral damage it is a sacrifice

Jesus. And you didn't want me in politics.

[KingZayd]

Rhiens VI wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

I find it hilarious that the Catalyst even gave me the option to blow him and the Reapers up.

I suggest you think about it. Maybe you'll understand.

OP, I'm with you.

Don't be a coward, just shoot the tube.

There is no logical reason for the Starchild to give you that destroy option unless either it doesn't destroy the Reapers, or it's convinced you won't pick destroy.

[DarthSliver]

DistantUtopia wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...
Of course the Geth fear extinction but they would still do what it takes to wipe out the Reaper Threat. But we actually dont know what Legion would do because he had to sacrifice himself to save all other Geth and make them True AI. 

And its not Genocide when your intention is to wipe out the Reapers not the Geth, it cant be helped that the beam that will destroy the Reapers will also hurt your Geth friends. 

Still Genocide:

Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

So yes, it's a deliberate destruction of the Geth to serve the greater good (i.e. the rest of the galaxy).  You KNOW it will happen; the catalyst says so.  If you didn't know (i.e. the Catalyst does not say it will), then it's a casualty of war but the way it's presented now it's Genocide.

Destroy would have been presented so much better, IMO, if the Catalyst did not say what destroy would do and instead we were shown through the EC the Geth and EDI suddenly dying in the red blast.

Well I look at it this way, we didnt go there to control the Reapers or mix our dna so we are all the same we went there to destroy them. We also didnt go there to hope the next cycle will do what we couldnt do and beat the Reapers. 

[The Genophage]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Arial

Mass sacrifice is not a word, also, you obviously still don't know what Genocide is, because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing this.

I do know what it means, I did an essay in University about the Rwanda Genocide of 1994.

It is only Genocide if your goal was to kill them off,  if they are colateral damage it is a sacrifice

Jesus. And you didn't want me in politics.

They just don't seem to understand.