470 réponses à ce sujet

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

and like weve been saying, its not genocide if its the only way to achieve victory, it is a casualty

[The Genophage]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Unless you meta-game, you can't possibly know the catalyst is telling the truth. If it a drunken man comes up to me and tells me to click this button or the world will die, and I don't, does that mean I'm responsible for the genocide, no. Also, Refusal is not doing nothing, you continue to fight but loss.

The difference is that the drunken man doesn't have an armada of Reapers that are exterminating organic life at a rate of billions a day, the most technologically advanced ships the galaxy has ever seen, and numbers that will blot out the sun. 

Other than those minor MINOR differences, though, I can totally see how your analogy is completely accurate.

You get the point, don't act obtuse.

I don't get the point. Your analogy has literally NOTHING to do with what's going on in the actual game.

How do I know that the Catalyst is telling the truth? I don't. But by doing nothing, what I do know is that we'll LOSE. So I take the chance that it is and make a leap of faith knowing that, if he is lying, then... it can't get any worse.

I also know that the Catalyst has no logical reason to lie to me - it brought me to it because it knew that its solution wasn't going to work anymore. If it had wanted to just sneer at me and try to show me that the Reapers are eternal and we have no chance at beating them, all it had to do was hang out and watch me bleed out next to Anderson.

Your leap of faith is as big as mine when I refuse, at least my leap of faith can only ensure in victory or dying together, your leap of faith can only ensure victory via genocide, and instant defeat.

[DistantUtopia]

saracen16 wrote...

It would only be arbitrary if the Geth could be replaced by any other race such as the Quarians. However, the Geth, like the Reapers, EDI, and Shepard, are (partly) synthetic. Destroying the Reapers means destroying all synthetics. There is nothing arbitrary about that.

it does feel kinda arbitraty when you think that a green beam which can
- Make organics partly synthetic
- give synthetics organic understanding

Suddenly can't distinguish between Reapers and other Synthetics.

Honestly, i still think "Bye bye EDI and Geth" were put in just to give the Destroy ending a negative conotation. 

[ghost9191]

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

i am not arguing ffs, i was voicing my opinion, which i stated multiple times

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

and like weve been saying, its not genocide if its the only way to achieve victory, it is a casualty

You refuse to understand the concept of Genocide and its meaning, whether is done to ensure victory or not, its genocide, I already clearly explained why and showed the defenition of it, If you refuse to understand that, I will just continue to copy and paste and hope that eventually it will sink in your skull.

[babachewie]

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

There is no difference is what you did in what people who destroyed did. Excpet you did it on a massive scale and with the knoweldge the game gives you it was the dumbest choice in the game.

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

and like weve been saying, its not genocide if its the only way to achieve victory, it is a casualty

You refuse to understand the concept of Genocide and its meaning, whether is done to ensure victory or not, its genocide, I already clearly explained why and showed the defenition of it, If you refuse to understand that, I will just continue to copy and paste and hope that eventually it will sink in your skull.

I understand the meaning of Genocide, you do not seem to grasp that "there is an exceptioin to every rule".

go look up the term sacrifice

[The Genophage]

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

i am not arguing ffs, i was voicing my opinion, which i stated multiple times

Your opinion doesn't make anysense because its premise comes that refusals are commiting genocide by not choosing an option, which I clearly proved wrong, but you continue to base your opinion off that. But it is your opinion, but don't go swinging it around like its a fact.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

[nhsknudsen]

Genocide is targetting an ethnic group either out of religion, race, politics or religion.

Killing Geth as a side effect is not genocide, killing the Reapers is.

Modifié par nhsknudsen, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[The Genophage]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

Incorrect, deliberate means im doing something, how can you accuse me of doing something when you keep telling i didn't do anything. Like I said, Genocide is pinned on the person/thing who does it, not the people who make desicions for the victim of the genocide.

[arial]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

exactly, and as the law states, if you do not prevent the crime, you are just as guilty as those who commited it

[Father_Jerusalem]

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Unless you meta-game, you can't possibly know the catalyst is telling the truth. If it a drunken man comes up to me and tells me to click this button or the world will die, and I don't, does that mean I'm responsible for the genocide, no. Also, Refusal is not doing nothing, you continue to fight but loss.

The difference is that the drunken man doesn't have an armada of Reapers that are exterminating organic life at a rate of billions a day, the most technologically advanced ships the galaxy has ever seen, and numbers that will blot out the sun. 

Other than those minor MINOR differences, though, I can totally see how your analogy is completely accurate.

You get the point, don't act obtuse.

I don't get the point. Your analogy has literally NOTHING to do with what's going on in the actual game.

How do I know that the Catalyst is telling the truth? I don't. But by doing nothing, what I do know is that we'll LOSE. So I take the chance that it is and make a leap of faith knowing that, if he is lying, then... it can't get any worse.

I also know that the Catalyst has no logical reason to lie to me - it brought me to it because it knew that its solution wasn't going to work anymore. If it had wanted to just sneer at me and try to show me that the Reapers are eternal and we have no chance at beating them, all it had to do was hang out and watch me bleed out next to Anderson.

Your leap of faith is as big as mine when I refuse, at least my leap of faith can only ensure in victory or dying together, your leap of faith can only ensure victory via genocide, and instant defeat.

No. My leap of faith is predicated on the fact that there is a CHANCE that we will end the Reaper threat. Your leap of faith is based on knowing that you are throwing away the ONLY chance you had at ending the Reaper threat.

My leap of faith is based on doing what is best for the galaxy as a whole - ending the cycle of extinction once and for all.

Your leap of faith is based on doing what is best for you as a whole - not having to make a hard choice or otherwise violate your own self-righteousness.

The two are IN NO WAY similar.

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

and like weve been saying, its not genocide if its the only way to achieve victory, it is a casualty

You refuse to understand the concept of Genocide and its meaning, whether is done to ensure victory or not, its genocide, I already clearly explained why and showed the defenition of it, If you refuse to understand that, I will just continue to copy and paste and hope that eventually it will sink in your skull.

I understand the meaning of Genocide, you do not seem to grasp that "there is an exceptioin to every rule".

go look up the term sacrifice

 Genocide in the dictionary- "the deliberate and systematic destruction"

Deliberate -Done consciously, happening by chance, Done with or marked by full consciousness of its consequences

systematicALLY-arranged in or comprimised in order.

By choosing Destroy, you systematically and deliberately kill the Geth, you are aware of what is going to happen. If they die in refuse, its a causalty of war, if you shoot a tube to kill them all, its genocide. Unless you have any evidence to prove me otherwise, don't write me "NOO ITS A CASUALTIE OF WAR"

[ghost9191]

The Genophage wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

i am not arguing ffs, i was voicing my opinion, which i stated multiple times

Your opinion doesn't make anysense because its premise comes that refusals are commiting genocide by not choosing an option, which I clearly proved wrong, but you continue to base your opinion off that. But it is your opinion, but don't go swinging it around like its a fact.

you mean like you are?  and it is actually fact. by your actions you condemn billions to death, if that isn't genocide then i don't know what is.

only difference is i accept it, and 1 species for 14 , whereas you choose your morals over everything else and allow 14 races to die.

it might not be genocide, which in a way it is. but it is far worse then what i choose. i stop the reapers at the cost of the geth, you give the next cycle a chance to stop then at the cost of our current cycle

and don't tell someone their opinion is wrong, that just makes you look bad

[Eain]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Is what happens to the Geth in destroy a tragedy? Of course. But how is allowing the Geth to die morally worse than allowing ALL ADVANCED LIFE IN THE GALAXY to die?

It, quite simply, boils down to a numbers game. And the numbers clearly state that Destroy >>>>>>>>>>>>> Refuse.

Shepard would probably agree with your logic. But Shepard does not know that shooting the red tube blows up all the Reapers. She really doesn't. People who keep saying she does can only cite the Catalyst as reason, but Shepard has no reason to believe the Catalyst. Everything that Shepard has experienced hints at the fact that not using the Crucible is more likely to leave an opportunity open for destroying the Reapers later. That's what refusal is to her. Anything else is putting the fate of the galaxy in the hands of the Reaper Overlord and simply praying he's telling the truth, which is incredibly unlikely.

[wulf3n]

arial wrote...
like Catalyst said, the crucible altered it, thats why it realized its solution was no longer valid and told you how to stop them.

 

But it's still the untrustworthy source telling you it has changed.

arial wrote... 
if you are gonna play the "what if hes lieing" card then i will counter with "then just watch the cinimatic, obviously not lieing"

I assume you're talking about the ending cinematic in which case that's a post fact argument which doesn't explain why you believed the him in the first place.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

Incorrect, deliberate means im doing something, how can you accuse me of doing something when you keep telling i didn't do anything. Like I said, Genocide is pinned on the person/thing who does it, not the people who make desicions for the victim of the genocide.

Doing something IS DOING NOTHING. YOU MADE A CHOICE BY NOT MAKING A CHOICE. Through inaction, you made the choice to LET THE REAPERS KEEP ON KEEPING ON. 

YOU had the power to stop them.

YOU chose not to.

YOU are thereby partially responsible for the actions THEY take because YOU refused to stop them from being able to take those actions.

[The Genophage]

arial wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

exactly, and as the law states, if you do not prevent the crime, you are just as guilty as those who commited it

When you refuse, your still fighting, if I were to try to stop the crime but failed, I wouldn't be held accountable now would I?

[arial]

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

Incorrect, deliberate means im doing something, how can you accuse me of doing something when you keep telling i didn't do anything. Like I said, Genocide is pinned on the person/thing who does it, not the people who make desicions for the victim of the genocide.

because by not preventing them you are just as guilty as they are. therefore every race the Reapers slaughter, is you commiting that genocide.

by knowing you can not beat them convntionally and still refuseing, you are deliberately letting them slaughter everyone

[ghost9191]

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

arial wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

and like weve been saying, its not genocide if its the only way to achieve victory, it is a casualty

You refuse to understand the concept of Genocide and its meaning, whether is done to ensure victory or not, its genocide, I already clearly explained why and showed the defenition of it, If you refuse to understand that, I will just continue to copy and paste and hope that eventually it will sink in your skull.

I understand the meaning of Genocide, you do not seem to grasp that "there is an exceptioin to every rule".

go look up the term sacrifice

 Genocide in the dictionary- "the deliberate and systematic destruction"

Deliberate -Done consciously, happening by chance, Done with or marked by full consciousness of its consequences

systematicALLY-arranged in or comprimised in order.

By choosing Destroy, you systematically and deliberately kill the Geth, you are aware of what is going to happen. If they die in refuse, its a causalty of war, if you shoot a tube to kill them all, its genocide. Unless you have any evidence to prove me otherwise, don't write me "NOO ITS A CASUALTIE OF WAR"

it is as much of a casualty of war in destroy as it is in refuse. only difference is that in destroy they die for something. refusal their deaths are pointless..  

and if i were you i would stop posting the definition, you are only reinforcing our claims:blink:

[babachewie]

You know the ME Universe isn't against wiping out a species to suit the needs of the Galaxy. The Rachni were wiped out with the combined support of the galaxy. Even Mordin says tragic but had to be done.

[Jymm]

I find it interesting that everyone believes we are completely doomed without the crucible. Hackett might believe that, any number of other people, but mostly they have no idea what it does or how it works. Which is why they stand around dumbfounded when it docks at the Citadel and doesnt fire. Shepard on the other hand has heard time and time and time again that X is impossible and then proceeded merrily to go and do X. So I still contend that there are internally consistent versions of Commander Shepard for which Refuse is a valid and (in his own mind at least) noble choice.

[The Genophage]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

The Genophage wrote...

@Ghost9191.

No, you fail to understand the definition of Genocide, and keep accusing me of Genocide when I clearly explained the difference, therefore I'm done arguing with nonsense.

Definition of GENOCIDE[/i]: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

By choosing "refuse" you DELIBERATELY allow the cycle to continue while the Reapers systematicall destroy many many racial, political, or cultural groups.

You are a party to genocide by allowing the Reapers to continue Reaping instead of stopping them when you were given multiple options on how to do so. 

Are you out there in a little Reaper ship helping them commit genocides? No, of course not. But you, and you alone, allowed them to continue on. Through your inaction, you are a party to it. Whether you like it or not.

Incorrect, deliberate means im doing something, how can you accuse me of doing something when you keep telling i didn't do anything. Like I said, Genocide is pinned on the person/thing who does it, not the people who make desicions for the victim of the genocide.

Doing something IS DOING NOTHING. YOU MADE A CHOICE BY NOT MAKING A CHOICE. Through inaction, you made the choice to LET THE REAPERS KEEP ON KEEPING ON. 

YOU had the power to stop them.

YOU chose not to.

YOU are thereby partially responsible for the actions THEY take because YOU refused to stop them from being able to take those actions.

My intentions were to stop them when I refuse, but I failed, it doesn't make it genocide. If Im offer a choise, decided not to take it, but take another one, and that other choise failed, does not mean I commited Genocide.