407 réponses à ce sujet

[Thomas Abram]

Hey everyone,

I've seen a lot of threads over the last two weeks discussing cheating, BioWare's policies and procedures and banning. I thought I would take this opportunity to open up the floor to the community to directly ask me anything. I'll try my best to answer every question but I may refrain from a handful due to me wanting to keep my job  

Please keep in mind that while you may not agree with someones opinion in this thread that does not give you the right to insult them.

So what do you think? What's on your mind? What do you think we can do differently? What do you think we're doing well?

Post all the questions.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:02 .

[Drummernate]

Nice idea...

I might have a few questions later...

Personally I think anyone that uses a glitch that actually gives an advantage should be banned.

For example:

Rocket Glitch.

Invincibility Glitch.

I also think that glitches that are pretty much just for fun should be allowed. They give almost no advantage other than a cool spot for looking at the scenery or anything that doesn't affect gameplay.

For example:

Firebase Hydra Dam Location. (No real advantage... you can still be shot and will fail objectives if everyone stays there. I use it to look at the backdrop and stuff without worrying about getting shot to death in 2 seconds.)

Disappearing missile launcher off your back glitch. (I hope this is a feature though... I do it every game!)

Modifié par Drummernate, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .

[Korolen]

Why is modding cheating? If credit/xp gain is turned off, and it's a private game, it harms no one. It merely adds longevity to your game. Also, any update on this? (social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/11917428#11976033)

Is there some sort of technical limitation as to why you can't do temporary bans or warnings? They seem a much more appropriate response to things like using the missile glitch in a public game.
I'll be editing this post with more questions soon

Modifié par Korolen, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:36 .

[Atheosis]

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

Modifié par Atheosis, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:25 .

[DarkerCompanion]

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:26 .

[SapientesGladio]

It is a great game, don't fix anything just keep adding awesome sh¡t





.......

Modifié par SapientesGladio, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:27 .

[SkreeMalicious]

Thankyou for creating a forum for us to voice our thoughts!

Edit:

I can think of one (or two) great ways to not only reduce but also fairly enforce justice to cheaters or glitchers:

1. EULA  upon next login to multiplayer containing full description of rules

2. One-strike ban method (first offence, warning issued), rather than silent investigation and subsequent option for player challenge.

One chance, one opportunity to show they were turned from the path and will not do it again, (for those that actively cheated), and for those that didnt know they would be banned, or didnt know it was wrong (for some strange reason), a chance for them to learn and never do it again.
If a player who was previously warned is (after second investigation) found cheating, they are banned.

Down sides, would require alot more man hours of work investigating people twice, and setting up this warning method.
Could be done with a splash screen when you login next...

Before the flames and questions regarding why leniency.... the sheer number of offenders would likely cripple the player pool for the multiplayer component of the game. Roughly estimating here, but about 20-30% of all players are missile glitching, possibly more.

Modifié par SkreeMalicious, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[Rokayt]

I'm a little concerned about people try to confirm the presence of a glitch in private play after reading the forums.

Say, nobody confirms that the rocket glitch works on PC (Which hasn't been done as far as I know,) what actions would be taken against a player who plays gold testing it out on bronze/silver?

[The Waffle Cat]

How are things as the rocket glitch and the invincible vorcha possible? Is it netcode related or something else?

[Mgamerz]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Please see my signature. Can we get that thread stickied?

[mybudgee]

Please tell us how/ when its possible to be banned for playing in a match with an unknown cheater.

[immanji]

I think you are the right man for the job Thomas!

[DarkerCompanion]

Mgamerz wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Please see my signature. Can we get that thread stickied?

I've seen your signature thread, and its very well thought out. I appreciate the time you put into it. However, while it severely mitigates the reality that bug fixing takes time, it does not give carte blanche to take forever. Bug fixing is hard, but it still needs to be done.

The fact of the matter is this; the last patch took months to come out, addressed a fraction of the issues in the game, and ultimately, didn't actually address them at all. It caused more bugs than it fixed, and most of the issues it addressed actually got worse. Your signature thread does not address a mishap of that magnitude. QA and testing should have handled that, regardless of the sheer amount of time it takes.

Modifié par DarkerCompanion, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .

[MWaHa]

Oh, this thread again?

But seriously, I generally agree with what I know of BioWare's policies and procedures. I haven't had any actual experiences (other than encountering and reporting my first rocket glitcher last night), but I agree with all of the rationales I've seen: if there's a clearly demonstrable pattern of deliberately exploiting glitches that undermines both intended game mechanics and the designed experience of other players, that player should be banned.

For the characters who wanted to use mods / glitches / cheat, etc. I Blizzard had a system in Diablo II where you could play on your own network, rather than through their servers. The upside was that you could mod and cheat and glitch to your heart's content on these games. If it were feasible from a programming standpoint (maybe for future games), you could try having two parallel multiplayer systems: use BioWare's servers for normal games (no mods, glitches, cheating allowed); use your own network for your own games (mods / glitches / cheating allowed, but you don't earn any experience or credits). I haven't thought through all of the feasibility or merits of this system (I just had it off the top of my head), but it might be worth considering.

[Atheosis]

Mgamerz wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Please see my signature. Can we get that thread stickied?

Your signature is ridiculous in the extreme.  I have been gaming for many years and I've seen many developers effectively patch their games over and over again.  Stop making excuses for BW.  Patching may be harder than your avergae schmoe realizes, but it's not so hard that four months should go by with almost no meaningful fixes.

[stysiaq]

Smash ALL the cheaters!

I have mixed feelings on the Vorcha Flamer/Reegar trick. Yes, it definitely shouldn't be here, but... it's a kind of bug that makes the power actually usable (Flamer is weak as for itself imho)

[ThirdChild ZKI]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I saw someone using a Reegar and the Flamer at the same time the other day. Is that normal or a glitch?

Oh that's normal, Hanar. Generally, you can use powers that don't have a character animation and a weapon at the same time. (i.e. you can fire a shot and use Incinerate almost at the same time, but you can't use Throw and fire a rifle)

[Thomas Abram]

Korolen wrote...

Why is modding cheating? If credit/xp gain is turned off, and it's a private game, it harms no one. It merely adds longevity to your game.

Is there some sort of technical limitation as to why you can't do temporary bans or warnings? They seem a much more appropriate response to things like using the missile glitch in a public game.
I'll be editing this post with more questions soon

We're still looking at our options with modding. Right now we do consider it cheating.

While I feel you bring up some very strong points it's a very interesting thing to police and I consider it a gateway to editing on the public side of things. Unfortunately since we're still discussing this subject internally I cannot say much more on our current stance.

As far as reprimanding goes - We can and do issue warnings and temporary bans in extremely rare cases. The number of warnings we issue will probably be included in the next ban wave post which is soon

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:38 .

[Satirist]

simple question: when do you plan to fix these exploits?

and when you fix them, will you take care of all the other problems not related to cheating as well? vanguard glitch for instance?

[killacwalka3]

I think initial ban should be temporary unless cheating is at a severe, widespread level. Maybe send warnings to those suspected of cheating. Exploiting to gain an advantage should be met with heavy punishment, but should not be done carelessly. It is easy to accidently die in the teleporting God zone on Firebase White, and I think that is one thing specifically in which the devs should err on the side of caution when handling punishment.

I view the Hydra dam as more of an Easter Egg, but it could still be exploited to travel to the LZ from my understanding. (Never actually used the glitch to get there)

[MWaHa]

Atheosis wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Please see my signature. Can we get that thread stickied?

Your signature is ridiculous in the extreme.  I have been gaming for many years and I've seen many developers effectively patch their games over and over again.  Stop making excuses for BW.  Patching may be harder than your avergae schmoe realizes, but it's not so hard that four months should go by with almost no meaningful fixes.

It seems to be the burden here is on Atheosis to prove his point. What factors should we consider in how quickly games are patched? It seems like games with more lines of code should be patched slower (since the programming is more complex), and given that ME3 is a very recent game, you would expect patches to take longer than, say, a patch for the original Oregon Trail. What is the average rate of patches for a game that is on multiple platforms? How large is the standard game's patch in terms of number of lines of code edited / added?

You might be right, but you're ultimately going to be unpersuasive (and some might even mistake you for a crank) unless you can answr questions like this in a very boring, quantitative way.

[ThirdChild ZKI]

Someone suggested running separate networks and/or servers for the mod community. Not a bad idea, but my concern is that it would split the player base, and matchmaking is already difficult at times.

I wish I had more to offer, but I don't, I'm sorry. The system in place works fine. Not perfect, but fine.

[cory257383]

How do you find the cheaters. Is it all based on reports or is there a way you can tell on your end?