63 réponses à ce sujet

[Thomas Abram]

Hey everyone,

I've seen a lot of threads over the last two weeks discussing cheating, BioWare's policies and procedures and banning. I thought I would take this opportunity to open up the floor to the community to directly ask me anything. I'll try my best to answer every question but I may refrain from a handful due to me wanting to keep my job  

Please keep in mind that while you may not agree with someones opinion in this thread that does not give you the right to insult them.

So what do you think? What's on your mind? What do you think we can do differently? What do you think we're doing well?

Post all the questions.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:02 .

[Thomas Abram]

Korolen wrote...

Why is modding cheating? If credit/xp gain is turned off, and it's a private game, it harms no one. It merely adds longevity to your game.

Is there some sort of technical limitation as to why you can't do temporary bans or warnings? They seem a much more appropriate response to things like using the missile glitch in a public game.
I'll be editing this post with more questions soon

We're still looking at our options with modding. Right now we do consider it cheating.

While I feel you bring up some very strong points it's a very interesting thing to police and I consider it a gateway to editing on the public side of things. Unfortunately since we're still discussing this subject internally I cannot say much more on our current stance.

As far as reprimanding goes - We can and do issue warnings and temporary bans in extremely rare cases. The number of warnings we issue will probably be included in the next ban wave post which is soon

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:38 .

[Thomas Abram]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

These issues are very important to us and I can tell you that we are investigating these issues on all fronts.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:41 .

[Thomas Abram]

theSatirist wrote...

simple question: when do you plan to fix these exploits?

and when you fix them, will you take care of all the other problems not related to cheating as well? vanguard glitch for instance?

When we release patches we try to target the most important bugs. Game breaking bugs first followed by large impact bugs and so on. Unfortunately I do not know the exact scope of any future changes that's a good rule to follow.

[Thomas Abram]

neteng101 wrote...

Guilty by association is something I've always wondered about.  If someone is blatantly cheating, it would be easy to spot, but often we're pretty busy in game so most times a less blatant cheater won't get reported.  Say someone uses the rocket glitch, and I'm not sure how the glitch even works, but if they fire 7-8 rockets (vs. 50) in a game, it may not be something everyone else is counting so precisely.

No reply needed but just something to consider - part of the reason people might miss on reporting something is because its not obvious enough, and we're too busy worrying about the enemies to be constantly looking at what the rest of the team is up to every single moment in a game.

There's also the ignorance factor - not everyone knows that others are exploiting the game, and what to look out for.  I remember a very long time back when I first started playing, there was like 2 games I played that seemed rather "easy" as in too easy...  it was probably a host cheat but back then I didn't even know any of this was possible.  It wasn't until a couple of weeks later than it dawned upon me what happened that day - I couldn't even being to tell you when that was ie. date/time, and who was in that game.

As for cheating and dealing with cheaters, show them no quarter and have no mercy!  I don't know what your policies are, but if you even show the least bit of leniency to a 100% cheater, at the very least they should be reset to starting over.

There is definitely some grey area on this topic and hopefully I can clear it up. Guilty by association is a very interesting thing but I feel that we combat it very well.

When investigating cheaters we perform a lot of unique checks. Some of these checks are not definitive but more paint us a picture of what took place. Some of these checks are definitive, black and white, cheater vs legit. While I'm sure there are a lot of people who want to know what these specific checks are I cannot say but I can assure you that my team takes this procedure very seriously.

[Thomas Abram]

justinblac wrote...

SkreeMalicious wrote...


Before the flames and questions regarding why leniency.... the sheer number of offenders would likely cripple the player pool for the multiplayer component of the game. Roughly estimating here, but about 20-30% of all players are missile glitching, possibly more.

Is it really that many?  I've only come across one person using the missle glitch, and that person quit after about a minute, so I think it was an accident.  I've run into maybe 4 leechers in 3 months, and one kid who wanted to credit glitch and everyone quit the lobby as soon as he started talking about it.  Maybe I run into fewer cheaters since I only play about 20% of my games with randoms, but I didn't think it was that bad.

It's not even close to double digits.

[Thomas Abram]

thewalrusx wrote...

Does BW make a distinction between those who happen upon a glitch accidently and those who exploit a glitch intentionally when enforcing their policies?

For example, the vangaurd glitch will sometimes make the player invulnerable or revive infinitely when they fall through the map. Doing this intentionally would be justly punishable, but this can and does happen to players who have no intention of causing the glitch.

I know you can't give examples or amazing detail on how you enforce your policy in this area, but tell me as much as you can please.

-Thanks!

We definitely do. One of the big things we focus on is looking at reports (internal and external) in many different ways.

[Thomas Abram]

Hyperionyht wrote...

1) Are the banhammers you guys drop for glitch exploits permabans or temporary? Personally, I can understand a ban lasting a few days for a ML glitcher, but to completely remove his ability to play multiplayer seems far too harsh when all he's doing is using a coding mistake to his advantage.

2) The Krysae doubleshot -- bannable offense?
I ask this mostly in jest. Only mostly, however, because I've had people claiming I was cheating when my Engineer was using it. Some even claimed they reported me. I just laughed.
But this brings up an interesting, and more complicated question:
2.1) How do you guys decide which glitches are bannable offenses and what aren't?

3) What's the ETA on the fixes for (a) biotic charge suspended animation, ( Vorcha invincibility, © infinite missiles, (d) the black hole glitch?

Thanks for making this thread.

#1. It's very case by case. We hope to announce something regarding this exact question soon.

#2. Currently no.

#2.1 We look at our policies and procedures and if it fits, it fits. Something like the infinite rocket glitch broke many different rules.

#3. I'm not in the loop on what's going on with those fixes, sorry.

[Thomas Abram]

MWaHa wrote...

The biggest question I have is: How strong is the expectation that players report cheaters? Is it mandatory to report cheaters? Will punitive action be taken against those that don't report cheaters?

I encountered my first cheater last night (missile glitch), and I left the lobby after finishing the game. I then sent him a message saying I was reporting him, and he sent me one back and he seemed apologetic. I was legitimately on the fence about reporting him. I decided to do so anyway, but I wonder if BioWare would punish me if it ever found out I decided to not report a cheater.

There is no expectation that players will report others nor will we ever reprimand a player for not reporting someone (as long as there was no post-match effects on their account). I'm sure you'll agree that these cheaters take away from the experience and I think that's what fuels people reporting cheaters.

Good question.

[Thomas Abram]

DarkerCompanion wrote...

Here is a question that I am pretty sure you may not be able to answer, but I will put it out there anyway.

Stage alterations are one of the few things we have neither seen through weekly changes or patches. I'm sure they are very difficult to do, or Firebase White would have been changed long ago, but perhaps I am wrong.

But related to that, there are bugs like the "teleport" panel on Firebase White, which are easily exploited to avoid enemies or survive death. Can a bug like this even be fixed, which I would assume requires map editing? Phrased better, for bugs or otherwise, are map edits even possible within the realm of game patching?

To my understanding it can be done depending on what needs to be fixed, but I guess that kind of applies to everything... Sorry :\\

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:13 .

[Thomas Abram]

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Hyperionyht wrote...

Whaddya know, another thread derailed by the Krysae. I regret ever mentioning it.

To get us back on track, I'll ask a question to which I already know the answer:
4) If a missile glitcher is in my match, am I considered to be cheating as well if I don't quit?

TA has stated before that you can finish the match so you don't waste your consumables, but leave the lobby right after.

[Thomas Abram]

OneTrueShot wrote...

Thomas: I've had several players join my games that ATTEMPT to glitch but fail. I'm not talking about mistakeable behaviour, I'm talking behaviour that can only be related to attempting to glitch.

I made a topic regarding such but never had an answer, which is okay. BUT...

Those who ATTEMPT to glitch - Is this reportable?

Definitely although a failed glitch cannot be proven in the same way a glitch can be proven so it would be categorized as griefing. We do look at game logs though so if the player has done it in the past or does it in the future we'll know.

[Thomas Abram]

justinblac wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Hyperionyht wrote...

Whaddya know, another thread derailed by the Krysae. I regret ever mentioning it.

To get us back on track, I'll ask a question to which I already know the answer:
4) If a missile glitcher is in my match, am I considered to be cheating as well if I don't quit?

TA has stated before that you can finish the match so you don't waste your consumables, but leave the lobby right after.

What if I happen to run into 3 or 4 missile glitchers in a week (unlikely, I know)?  Wouldn't it seem like I'm cheating too just by the number of cheaters I play with?  Can we have system where if  we quit and report the person, we get a vet pack or something to cover our losses, or would that be too hard to track and/or encourage false reports?

We have our ways of differentiating being unlucky with your lobbies from actually cheating. We may do something in the future but as of right now I agree that it would encourage too many false reports which in turn would decrease the time we spend actually removing the real cheaters.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .

[Thomas Abram]

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Variasaber wrote...

FearTheCompany wrote...

Turbo controllers for mattock?
Holding down the trigger to shoot instead of having to press it over and over?
respond please if you are allowed to use these

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you're allowed to use them.

Would they even be able to tell? Assuming you're on a console, doesn't the console just register these as multiple standard trigger presses? I thought all the processing work for this was done on the controller itself.

We can definitely tell the difference between a regular round and a rocket-firing weapon.

[Thomas Abram]

Atheosis wrote...

Lambda_00 wrote...

MWaHa wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

DarkerCompanion wrote...

What kind of effort is being made to fix the methods through which the cheating is being accomplished? Banning people works in the short term, but fixing the bugs in the first place is a much better solution. Is there anything you can share with us about whether staff members are trying to fix these bugs?

Atheosis wrote...

You need to start patching more often and more effectively. With the two DLC packs you've added more bugs (and by extension glitches) than you've fixed since the game was released.

I'm afraid I agree with this sentiment. The patches seem to be remarkably limited in scope, but with a very large development time. The last patch seemed to be entirely pre-Resurgence, but was released at the same time as Rebellion. Bugs from Rebellion era must be so far behind on the gameplan . . . that there may be no hope at all.

Please see my signature. Can we get that thread stickied?

Your signature is ridiculous in the extreme.  I have been gaming for many years and I've seen many developers effectively patch their games over and over again.  Stop making excuses for BW.  Patching may be harder than your avergae schmoe realizes, but it's not so hard that four months should go by with almost no meaningful fixes.

It seems to be the burden here is on Atheosis to prove his point. What factors should we consider in how quickly games are patched? It seems like games with more lines of code should be patched slower (since the programming is more complex), and given that ME3 is a very recent game, you would expect patches to take longer than, say, a patch for the original Oregon Trail. What is the average rate of patches for a game that is on multiple platforms? How large is the standard game's patch in terms of number of lines of code edited / added?

You might be right, but you're ultimately going to be unpersuasive (and some might even mistake you for a crank) unless you can answr questions like this in a very boring, quantitative way.

Also, one needs to take into account the engines themselves that specific developers are using to develop the games, some make it easier to find&fix the issues compared to others.

The Unreal engine is known for being relatively easy to work with.

Off topic. What you believe takes hours to fix, takes days if not weeks. A lot of members have outlined the patch process and while I wish we were able to dedicate everyone to work on the bugs you think should be fixed, we cannot. It's a balancing act.

Start your own thread on this if you want but keep it out of this one, consider yourself warned.

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 04 juillet 2012 - 09:25 .

[Thomas Abram]

MWaHa wrote...

GameKillerFT wrote...

All I will say is if I get reported or banned for NOT glitching or cheating, but for useing my striker x or krysae x on my bartarian and vorcha, BioWare and I will be in communication for a very big payday. After all just because others cheat doesn't mean I have to stop useing a good weapon.

Simply put. Have your proof or don't report or assume without it, or problems will arrise. I payed just like the rest for this half done game.

lolwut

EDIT: seriously, I think I've only seen one person on the forums complain about being unfairly banned. The folks at BioWare strike me as competent and data-driven and conscientious enough that you don't have to worry about that.

SECOND EDIT: But it would be nice if BioWare could give us any info about the ban appeal process, and how many bans are overturned upon review (how many mistakes they make when banning someone).

In order to appeal a ban a person must e-mail me3accountadmin@bioware.com (EA Support will direct you to us if you have been banned, they will not unban you). Once we receive the e-mail we'll review your case from scratch and compare it with any notes left by the previous case officer/investigator. If it turns out you're not a cheater we'll restore your access. That's pretty much it.

The actual investigation part is often conducted by multiple members of my team seperately to ensure the correct verdict. We are very thorough.

[Thomas Abram]

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

MWaHa wrote...

GameKillerFT wrote...

All I will say is if I get reported or banned for NOT glitching or cheating, but for useing my striker x or krysae x on my bartarian and vorcha, BioWare and I will be in communication for a very big payday. After all just because others cheat doesn't mean I have to stop useing a good weapon.

Simply put. Have your proof or don't report or assume without it, or problems will arrise. I payed just like the rest for this half done game.

lolwut

EDIT: seriously, I think I've only seen one person on the forums complain about being unfairly banned. The folks at BioWare strike me as competent and data-driven and conscientious enough that you don't have to worry about that.

SECOND EDIT: But it would be nice if BioWare could give us any info about the ban appeal process, and how many bans are overturned upon review (how many mistakes they make when banning someone).

In order to appeal a ban a person must e-mail me3accountadmin@bioware.com (EA Support will direct you to us if you have been banned, they will not unban you). Once we receive the e-mail we'll review your case from scratch and compare it with any notes left by the previous case officer/investigator. If it turns out you're not a cheater we'll restore your access. That's pretty much it.

The actual investigation part is often conducted by multiple members of my team seperately to ensure the correct verdict. We are very thorough.

This makes me curious about something. Is there ever a situation in which you end up deciding a ban was perhaps unfair, but some sort of action should still be taken? Such as a credit wipe? I have no example scenario, just wondering.

EDIT: Assuming this was part of an appeal, not an initial response to an exploitation.

Definitely. We aren't perfect and we're constantly looking to improve. We understand that we make mistakes from time to time (in severity among other things) and that's exactly why we have the appeal process.

I typed this while enjoying a popsicle.

[Thomas Abram]

Deucetipher wrote...

What about spending credits from glitched games? On my first report, I offered to hold the credits until they could be removed, but when I got the e-mail back, there was no mention of it so I went ahead and spent them. I realize that the e-mails are automated, but I haven't heard anything else since, other than the general admonishments (by fellow forumites) not to spend money derived from glitched games.

This is very case by case. Odds are the agent saw something that made them think holding onto those credits was your right, in that case.

[Thomas Abram]

A Sinister Lamb wrote...

Thomas Abram wrote...

Deucetipher wrote...

What about spending credits from glitched games? On my first report, I offered to hold the credits until they could be removed, but when I got the e-mail back, there was no mention of it so I went ahead and spent them. I realize that the e-mails are automated, but I haven't heard anything else since, other than the general admonishments (by fellow forumites) not to spend money derived from glitched games.

This is very case by case. Odds are the agent saw something that made them think holding onto those credits was your right, in that case.

I assume that means it's okay to spend credits from missile glitched games? As you mentioned in an earlier response, you guys seem to be okay with us sticking it out so we don't waste our consumables PROVIDED we leave the lobby afterwards?

Also, is it okay to still use weapons like the Krysae and Striker? I assume you guys can tell if they're just being used normally and not used for glitching? Also, I assume the ammo reset counter isn't a bannable offense? It's happened to me a few times (The Krysae clip jumped from 3 to 0) and I have no idea how. Sorry for the many questions; I had more, but other people have already asked.

Of course it's okay, x2.

BUT, it's not okay if you get a crazy amount of credits that doesnt suite the game you played. For example, gold credits amount while playing bronze.

[Thomas Abram]

Lord Thornos wrote...

What is a maximum punishment for griefing? How many reports must a player have against them for a punishment to be enacted? How do you deal with the people having different opinions as to what griefing is and is not?

All it takes is 1 report. We can look certain types of griefing up on our end and really there is no maximum as I'm sure in a very rare set of circumstances a user can be perma banned (although said user would have to have gone out of his way many, many times to be banned).

Griefing is an interesting topic an one I had hoped to address sooner rather then later. At this time i'm okay with the perception and varying definition of griefing. If it takes away from your experience you have a case, if it's a rare case it holds different weighting then something that is reported extremely often and has a clear negative impact on anyones experience.

[Thomas Abram]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Hey, my main question is regarding the Invisible Weapon Glitch which happens when swapping weapons while going up a ladder (where the only glitch is appearance related), it grants no edge in the game so I can't imagine it being frowned upon, but is it something the Bioware team has a problem with, and might I request the glitch never be fixed and that at least one ladder be included in all new maps?

I despise the appearance of the Cobra Missile Launcher on everyone's back (it's bulky and it clashes), so I make it invisible on any map that lets me (and admittedly, it does give me an edge where it makes me feel/my character look more badass). I am somewhat concerned about being resported for it however, as I do it every game and I play a lot with randoms (often explaining the glitch just so they don't think I'm cheating).

As such, I was also wondering if a stickied list of all "glitches" that offer no tangible benefit in game and are allowed to be used might be compiled such that people have an easily referenced official statement on the matter (I for one would like it to become a thing everyone does in every game they play, I really hate that Cobra and would even prefer missiles be removed from the game entirely if I could just have that eyesore out of the picture).

That is all, thank you for your time and have a great day.

No real advantage, besides style, no problem

[Thomas Abram]

djharris10 wrote...

so I have seen 2 different people posting about modding single player mass effect 3 getting you banned from all online features even if there is no cheating involved, is that true or not?

Not true if it only effects SP. Some of the code can also effect MP and if you go into MP with the modified file then you are at risk even if you're not aware of what you have done (which is a very, very rare case).

[Thomas Abram]

I'll be leaving shortly for the day and will not be available tonight. I'm temporarily locking + stickying this thread and feel free to PM me any questions and i'll address them tomorrow (and unlock tomorrow).

Edit: Unlocked

Modifié par Thomas Abram, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[Thomas Abram]

Chevyboy88 wrote...

I have a question I would like answered although I suspect I already know the answer to be that it is not a cheat since it is obviously not intended or done willingly.

We all know the glitch (happens most often with Vanguards) but can still happen to any class, usually involving clipping something you are using for cover where you fall through the floor and appear to hover in the air unable to take any action most of the time.

However as a side effect of this most of the time you are rendered invulnerable and some enemies do flock to you. My question is, is finishing the game considered abuse of a bug? Again I highly suspect it is not since this is obviously more of an annoyance to the player than it is helpful. I just don't feel right leaving a game on round 9 or 10 and missing out on all the hard earned credits.

A player can be put into these kind of states by accident or on purpose. Obviously, as you mentioned, if a player accidentally is put into this state there is no problem with them finishing their game. If they purposefully put themselves into this state (which is pretty easy to tell) then that's not okay.

[Thomas Abram]

Zimek wrote...

I've got a question, Thomas. Please, do take with all seriousness.

Pancakes or waffles?

Pankakes from ~2:30 AM -> 4:30 PM - otherwise, waffles.