361 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

tamperous wrote...

They know it's bad, but the leadership needs to save face.

There are better way of saving face than full speed ahead, but they would need those ideas to come from somewhere else than here. I'm sure a good PR professional could come up with something.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Stornskar wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
...
It's hardly "most people". Hell, on BSN alone the opinion is still split.

You are probably correct as far as BSN goes, but BSN is not most people.

If BSN were the only ones who hated the endings, would they have made the EC to begin with?

We're talking about the endings AFTER the EC...

[o Ventus]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

BDelacroix wrote...

The fact that some people like the end means it must be good in at least some circles. Perhaps it made total sense to them. They may be just as perplexed that we don't like them.

I put a bit of that in with a bit of wanting a non mainstream end and a bit of ego. Can't get away from ego entirely. It was their choice. They gambled and lost with some of us.

Well when you sell X million copies you're bound to hit it right with SOMEONE.

After the EC, most people are happy witht the game. Just take a look around the internets.

It's hardly "most people". Hell, on BSN alone the opinion is still split.

But that's BSN. Take a look around the internet. Facebook, Twitter, other gaming sites. Most people are satisfied.

I've seen. A lot of those people still posting on Twitter, Facebook, etc are those same people who were already satisfied to begin with. The people who are dissatisfied tend to leave after they make it known that they don't like it. It happened on BSN following the announcement of the EC and after its release, why would it be any different anywhere else?

Again, it isn't "most people", it's "some people".

[ld1449]

Obadiah wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

I think people are in denial that the ending was actually pretty good... it just went over their heads...or they did not liked what it represents...which is arguable.

I would argue that it couldn't go over you head if you hated the ending. At first glance the ending is terrible, but as you start thinking about it, it gets even worse. Like Kotaku said, the more you understand the lore and the ending, the worse the ending gets.

I don't think so. If they ever release a "Shepard Defeats the Reapers Conventially, and All Teammates Survive, and Races Rebuild Destruction and Live Happily Every After" ending, all this nitpicking of the ending will go away.

I just got through playing Mass Effect 2, and that can be torn apart almost as easily as people are doing here. But it wasn't (not like ME3 is) because players could get a happy ending.

Any piece of fiction can be ripped apart into a million pieces if looked at hard enough. But with ME2 you would have to actually nit pick to do so.

Was it unrealistic for a Turian vigilantee to still have enough pull to get the most advance cannons of the Turian fleet to hook up to a human terrorist group affiliated ship?

Hell yes.

Could I suspend my disbelief enough for it to pass through

Hell yes

because the authors are only human and the only difference between real life and fiction is that fiction needs to be believable. But I know that to bog down the game in nuances and details of where Shepard would get that cannon would just be plain old tedius and ultimately unnecesary.

The ending of ME3 doesn't even stand up to a perusal, let alone close scrutiny. And this is specifically for the Starchild that invalidates the already established things from ME1 and Synthesis which invalidates the whole role the Geth and Edi played through ME2 and ME3

That's why the ending fails so hard. Not because people didn't get a hapy ending.

Hell, I don't mind bitter sweet events. I'm front runner to say that in some stories the protagonist needs to die at the end. I even did a run through ME2 where Shepard dropped dead. I have a run where half the team is killed.

But you don't make a game and hype up the decisions factor into the ending aspect of it and then not have it hapen. As many have stated a hapy ending should be one possible outcome. And not something I or anyone should have to headcannon because the director and writer decided to get lazy and say speculations for everyone

[Brovikk Rasputin]

o Ventus wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

BDelacroix wrote...

The fact that some people like the end means it must be good in at least some circles. Perhaps it made total sense to them. They may be just as perplexed that we don't like them.

I put a bit of that in with a bit of wanting a non mainstream end and a bit of ego. Can't get away from ego entirely. It was their choice. They gambled and lost with some of us.

Well when you sell X million copies you're bound to hit it right with SOMEONE.

After the EC, most people are happy witht the game. Just take a look around the internets.

It's hardly "most people". Hell, on BSN alone the opinion is still split.

But that's BSN. Take a look around the internet. Facebook, Twitter, other gaming sites. Most people are satisfied.

I've seen. A lot of those people still posting on Twitter, Facebook, etc are those same people who were already satisfied to begin with. The people who are dissatisfied tend to leave after they make it known that they don't like it. It happened on BSN following the announcement of the EC and after its release, why would it be any different anywhere else?

Again, it isn't "most people", it's "some people".

Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

And I've seen many people who hated the endings that says it makes them palatable. That doesn't mean they like the ending or don't want more. There's a big difference between resignation and satisfaction. And Bioware hasn't crossed that line for alot of people.

[o Ventus]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

I guarantee I've seen just as many people dislike both cuts of the endings. If you can provide statistics on your "most people" claim, then I'll concede my point.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

And I've seen many people who hated the endings that says it makes them palatable. That doesn't mean they like the ending or don't want more. There's a big difference between resignation and satisfaction. And Bioware hasn't crossed that line for alot of people.

But they have for a lot of other people. You can't please everyone.

[asagishepherd]

What was it, 60000 people voted they hated the ending in one facebook/twitter page? The new polls have a couple thousand voting?

Where are the 60000 people? Why haven't they come back praising bioware for the EC? My guess, they moved on.

[Jason Ralph]

The EC wasn't meant to "fix" the ending.
It's nothing more than deleted scenes that get tossed into Blu-ray/DVD releases of movies.
In the end, if you liked the ending, you still do.
If you didn't, you still won't.
The EC just explains their (whoever wrote it) point of view.
In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

And I've seen many people who hated the endings that says it makes them palatable. That doesn't mean they like the ending or don't want more. There's a big difference between resignation and satisfaction. And Bioware hasn't crossed that line for alot of people.

But they have for a lot of other people. You can't please everyone.

Thats something I can accept when you have a 90-10 divide. Or even an 80-20. Pushing it, you can even get away with 70-30.

This is not something you can get away with when your divide is 40 for like 60 disliking.

At most its an even split. And an even split is still by and large considered a failure.

The only reason the extended cut is even being well recieved by half the people that are liking it is because those same people litterally had ROCK BOTTOM expectations of the extended cut. Bioware could not have made it worse than they expected it to be. When people are so full of pessimism and their expectations are that low its bound to be viewed as "surprisingly good" by a number of them.

If Bioware's original endings or their PR had been any different, allowing the retakers to have faith in the EC. I guarantee you there'd be alot more pissed off people than what there are now.

And even as it stands very few people I've spoken to that enjoyed the extended cut the first time stand by the extended cut or protest to any new additions, or even keep enjoying the changes after the rose tinted glasses of surprise come off.

[spirosz]

asagishepherd wrote...

What was it, 60000 people voted they hated the ending in one facebook/twitter page? The new polls have a couple thousand voting?

Where are the 60000 people? Why haven't they come back praising bioware for the EC? My guess, they moved on.

That's the thing, you can say that for BSN as well.  A lot of people have moved on, it's been what 4 months?  People can argue that we're the minority or that most of the public are satisified, but IMO, a lot of people just moved on and don't care enough to participate.  

Still,  Bioware shouldn't be take this site lightly after all, what does it represent, BIOWARE, not just some random fan-made forum.  

Personally, they've lost my trust.

[ld1449]

spiros9110 wrote...


That's the thing, you can say that for BSN as well.  A lot of people have moved on, it's been what 4 months?  People can argue that we're the minority or that most of the public are satisified, but IMO, a lot of people just moved on and don't care enough to participate.  

Still,  Bioware shouldn't be take this site lightly after all, what does it represent, BIOWARE, not just some random fan-made forum.  

Personally, they've lost my trust.

They've lost alot more than that as far as I'm concerned.

[varcety]

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

[CuseGirl]

bydoritos wrote...
Well, the EC actually solved my problems with the endings.
And from what I saw on the forum, the response of the fans actually improved with the Extended cut (even if there still people that didn't like it)
So I don't think they are in denial.

It's impossible to please everyone unfortunatly.

You can't please everyone but they would have pleased an overwhelming majority of fans by removing the Starchild and not telling us the central conflict of Mass Effect was ending the war between synthetics and organics and letting Shepard stand up, cheer, and embrace his LI. Those 3 things would have COMPLETELY changed the tone coming from fans and maybe even earned them some equity down the road.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

varcety wrote...

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

Don't worry, none of that is true.

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

varcety wrote...

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

Don't worry, none of that is true.

Dude look at Merizian's "interview"

She calls him "Executive producer" Not dirrector within the first five seconds. He's been demoted straight from the horses mouth.

[Marauder Shieldz]

ld1449 wrote...

I believe the team knows.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the team knows just how bad it is.

It quite frankly is the only thing that gives me hope. And its the reason I'm still here posting as much as I can and trying to push a little bit more.

I personally believe Weekes post, he denied it later but it was the weakest denial I'd ever seen. He didn't even claim it to be false, just said "I didn't write it."

I never heard a dirrect "Its not true" Chris and Weekes just posted repeatedly "This was not written by a Bioware employee/I didn't write that."

So yeah, I'm very much convinced that a good chunk of the writing team is well aware of the issues. I'm also convinced that if the pressure can be kept up we'll eventually see more from it, but only if people are willing to push a little more.

Furthermore, Mac is no longer the lead writer for future DLC work, as seen by a tweet (now deleted) and a solicitation for a new lead writer for the ME project that was leaked.

And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

I'm hoping they'll fix it. Hoping as much as I can.

Not sure if they will but regardless, I have no doubts that Mac and Casey are basically blacklisted in their own offices atm

This. Like with the EC, if the fanbase keeps up the pressure like people are now they might fix it eventually. 

[PeterG1]

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

[HardlinePrune13]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...
Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

And I've seen many people who hated the endings that says it makes them palatable. That doesn't mean they like the ending or don't want more. There's a big difference between resignation and satisfaction. And Bioware hasn't crossed that line for alot of people.

But they have for a lot of other people. You can't please everyone.

I think that the original ending that the game shipped with was indeed quite bad. The fact that the EC had made some significant changes is a testament to that.
Personally I'm very happy with the EC because it has given me a satisfying conclusion to the game, and I also think that a lot of people feel similarly. The problem though is that, by messing up the original ending, they have inadvertently created a situation where they will never be able to please a lot of people with any changes or ending additions-because there was so much seemingly wrong to begin with and that really pissed a lot of people of.
I don't really see a workable solution though-ultimately it is the story they decided to tell, and it boils down to whether as fans or consumers, whether you or we want o continue supporting this product, franchise or company. It's something we need to think about seriously, because the sad fact is that this forum has turned into a bioware bashing place on the Internet, when it should be dominated and be filed with ffans and lovers of the series, these games and these stories. Seriously, it people don't want to be happy with how this story had unfolded, that's cool-I'm not saying people have to like it.. But let's not think that us being unhappy about something is going to change just because we want or think it should. 
Personally I would like to see more lively and constructive debate about these games and the story; it's pretty evident that most of these topics in the forums these days do not come from a place of excitement or enthusiasm, but rather from a place of 'wtf?' or criticism. Again that's cool too, everyone should have a voice-but is the official bioware are and mass effect forums the suitable place for this?
I think it is not the developers who are in denial, but quite a lot of players who are. Again I do think bioware inadvertently caused this by an incomplete and rushed ending-but they have made amends. I'm not sure what else people are looking for or expecting here. Did people really think that everyone would be happy with the EC? Of course not-there are folks who didn't like Harry potter, who belie e the earth is flat, who believe in flying spaghetti monsters, and so on- the point of these stories was never to satisfy everyone, but for the sheer sake of telling a story. I for one have enjoyed that story, and am pleased with how it turned out.
I think it the EC was what we got originally, things would have turned out very differently. Alas, we can't always have get what we want, and at the end of the day we  an all only learn or try to learn from it all. Peace out.

[ld1449]

PeterG1 wrote...

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

Quite frankly, how much they listen is up to debate.

Biggest criticism of ME1 was the cookie cutter sidequest locations.

Then they go and repeat the same issue with DA2 and say that they didn't think there would be such a problem with reused levels. Now they get "points" for implementing "fan feedback" in DA3 which was already fan feedback that was implemented in ME2 but who's counting. They're Bioware. and they "listen.

[asagishepherd]

spiros9110 wrote...

asagishepherd wrote...

What was it, 60000 people voted they hated the ending in one facebook/twitter page? The new polls have a couple thousand voting?

Where are the 60000 people? Why haven't they come back praising bioware for the EC? My guess, they moved on.

That's the thing, you can say that for BSN as well.  A lot of people have moved on, it's been what 4 months?  People can argue that we're the minority or that most of the public are satisified, but IMO, a lot of people just moved on and don't care enough to participate.  

Still,  Bioware shouldn't be take this site lightly after all, what does it represent, BIOWARE, not just some random fan-made forum.  

Personally, they've lost my trust.

Lost my trust, yes. I can't write them off tho. I think their egos have to be taken down a notch or two, but i think the DA2 and ME3 backlash may be getting the point across tho.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

varcety wrote...

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

Don't worry, none of that is true.

Dude look at Merizian's "interview"

She calls him "Executive producer" Not dirrector within the first five seconds. He's been demoted straight from the horses mouth.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12976433/2 

[Argable]

varcety wrote...

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

Casey's baby? If it belongs to anyone, I'd say it belongs to Drew Karpyshyn. You know, the guy who wrote two of the three games and the only books that weren't terrible? The granddaddy of the ME universe?

After he was moved to TOR, he quit. I can't say I know whether he moved willingly or not, but he's the one who built this universe.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

ld1449 wrote...

PeterG1 wrote...

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

Quite frankly, how much they listen is up to debate.

Biggest criticism of ME1 was the cookie cutter sidequest locations.

Then they go and repeat the same issue with DA2 and say that they didn't think there would be such a problem with reused levels. Now they get "points" for implementing "fan feedback" in DA3 which was already fan feedback that was implemented in ME2 but who's counting. They're Bioware. and they "listen.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect is not made by the same people..