361 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

HardlinePrune13 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...
Where did you get that info from? I've seen many people who hated the original endings saying they liked the EC.

And I've seen many people who hated the endings that says it makes them palatable. That doesn't mean they like the ending or don't want more. There's a big difference between resignation and satisfaction. And Bioware hasn't crossed that line for alot of people.

But they have for a lot of other people. You can't please everyone.

I think that the original ending that the game shipped with was indeed quite bad. The fact that the EC had made some significant changes is a testament to that.
Personally I'm very happy with the EC because it has given me a satisfying conclusion to the game, and I also think that a lot of people feel similarly. The problem though is that, by messing up the original ending, they have inadvertently created a situation where they will never be able to please a lot of people with any changes or ending additions-because there was so much seemingly wrong to begin with and that really pissed a lot of people of.
I don't really see a workable solution though-ultimately it is the story they decided to tell, and it boils down to whether as fans or consumers, whether you or we want o continue supporting this product, franchise or company. It's something we need to think about seriously, because the sad fact is that this forum has turned into a bioware bashing place on the Internet, when it should be dominated and be filed with ffans and lovers of the series, these games and these stories. Seriously, it people don't want to be happy with how this story had unfolded, that's cool-I'm not saying people have to like it.. But let's not think that us being unhappy about something is going to change just because we want or think it should. 
Personally I would like to see more lively and constructive debate about these games and the story; it's pretty evident that most of these topics in the forums these days do not come from a place of excitement or enthusiasm, but rather from a place of 'wtf?' or criticism. Again that's cool too, everyone should have a voice-but is the official bioware are and mass effect forums the suitable place for this?
I think it is not the developers who are in denial, but quite a lot of players who are. Again I do think bioware inadvertently caused this by an incomplete and rushed ending-but they have made amends. I'm not sure what else people are looking for or expecting here. Did people really think that everyone would be happy with the EC? Of course not-there are folks who didn't like Harry potter, who belie e the earth is flat, who believe in flying spaghetti monsters, and so on- the point of these stories was never to satisfy everyone, but for the sheer sake of telling a story. I for one have enjoyed that story, and am pleased with how it turned out.
I think it the EC was what we got originally, things would have turned out very differently. Alas, we can't always have get what we want, and at the end of the day we  an all only learn or try to learn from it all. Peace out.

I agree. If the EC was what we got originally I might not be so pissed off. But since it wasn't what we got originally, I don't feel they should do the bare minimum to fix it.

I went to a restaurant once. When I got a steak I'd ordered, raw on the inside, I sent it back to be finished. When they came back they offered me free beverages to make up for the inconvenience of my steak being nearly raw. They went the extra mile. They didn't just cook the steak.

Why should this be any different? Why should Bioware be allowed to get away with the bare minimum of effort after all the false promises pre release?

If they really "care about feedback" as they so claim, and they're getting a ton of it now then they should show that they do and go the extra mile. And not just try to get away with the bare minimum and call it "good enough."

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

varcety wrote...

ld1449 wrote...



And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

God I hope it's not true. While I understand the fan anger over the endings(I didn't like them too) demoting Casey Hudson from the lead role is totally unfair. ME is his baby. He led the design of ME1 and ME2(and KOTOR as well which is my favourite Bioware game) and they turned out pretty good.

Don't worry, none of that is true.

Dude look at Merizian's "interview"

She calls him "Executive producer" Not dirrector within the first five seconds. He's been demoted straight from the horses mouth.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12976433/2 

Let me get right on taking their word for that. Since they've been locking every thread and editing every tweet.

She said so herself, just go to youtube and look up the interview.

[ld1449]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

PeterG1 wrote...

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

Quite frankly, how much they listen is up to debate.

Biggest criticism of ME1 was the cookie cutter sidequest locations.

Then they go and repeat the same issue with DA2 and say that they didn't think there would be such a problem with reused levels. Now they get "points" for implementing "fan feedback" in DA3 which was already fan feedback that was implemented in ME2 but who's counting. They're Bioware. and they "listen.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect is not made by the same people.. 

Same company. You can't tell me they don't comunicate

[Argable]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

PeterG1 wrote...

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

Quite frankly, how much they listen is up to debate.

Biggest criticism of ME1 was the cookie cutter sidequest locations.

Then they go and repeat the same issue with DA2 and say that they didn't think there would be such a problem with reused levels. Now they get "points" for implementing "fan feedback" in DA3 which was already fan feedback that was implemented in ME2 but who's counting. They're Bioware. and they "listen.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect is not made by the same people.. 

They're not made by the same writers, but they're subject to the same development policy and the same pressures. Can we be sure that problems from one will transfer to the other? Of course not. Should we neglect the possibility though?

It's kind of beside the point though, because DA2 was evidence of terrible design policy as well, so even if both groups work in complete separation, they've come to the same awful policies.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

ld1449 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

PeterG1 wrote...

Jason Ralph wrote...

In the end, if you truly want to see if BioWare is listening, pay no attention to what they say, but rather, what they do. Namely with the next game, following Mass Effect 3. Be in another Dragon Age game or a new IP. Will it address the issues fans have had with BioWare games (ME2, DA2, ME3) that I've seen here on BSN or not?
That's how you'll know. Very few people & companies, have the courage, honor, and strength to admit when they are wrong. You shouldn't be surprised they (BioWare) have danced around the issue at all.

Yea, this ^^^

I'm not saying that BioWare did anything necessarily wrong with ME3 or any of their other IPs, but it will be interesting to see what they do with future titles and franchises. I bet they do listen and do a next title that will take it a bit easier on their fans and gamers. Now, that's not to say that they do something else that's creatively or technically risky and get a different backlash, but I bet their next game will have a happy(ier) ending(s)...

Quite frankly, how much they listen is up to debate.

Biggest criticism of ME1 was the cookie cutter sidequest locations.

Then they go and repeat the same issue with DA2 and say that they didn't think there would be such a problem with reused levels. Now they get "points" for implementing "fan feedback" in DA3 which was already fan feedback that was implemented in ME2 but who's counting. They're Bioware. and they "listen.

Dragon Age and Mass Effect is not made by the same people.. 

Same company. You can't tell me they don't comunicate

Well I don't work there, so how should I know?

[Mazebook]

I think the devs have every reason do be proud of their game...but thats just my opinion.

[Argable]

maaaze wrote...

I think the devs have every reason do be proud of their game...but thats just my opinion.

They can be proud of whatever they want, but if what they make ends up losing their company money and players, they'll be out of a job eventually.

[Eradyn]

Walters and Hudson do not the the artistic integrity of the Mass Effect team make. I feel for the rest of the writing team. You can tell by their initial tweets and posts that they were upset, and why wouldn't they be? Two narcissistic egomaniacs took the reigns from the team's hands and shat all over what should have been a masterpiece at the very last minute. Now the team has to grin and bear it so they can keep their jobs. If they didn't, their careers would be over in this industry. It's very small and close, still.

[nitefyre410]

Oh they know but they can't hear because of they have stuck their heads in the ground of "75 perfect scores"

[shadowkinz]

I don't know what to think... 96% of the game is ****ing amazing and well written, they probably outsourced the ending like dues ex did with their boss fights lol..

it's hard to believe that such amazing writing just derped out at the end of the game, but the original ending was just incoherent and irrational. Reminded me of being a kid and trying to get away with half assing something, like an essay or something. Ignorantly thinking YEAH THIS'LL WORK!

I dunno tho, like i said, the writing was amazing then POOMF DAHELL

[garrusfan1]

shadowkinz wrote...

I don't know what to think... 96% of the game is ****ing amazing and well written, they probably outsourced the ending like dues ex did with their boss fights lol..

it's hard to believe that such amazing writing just derped out at the end of the game, but the original ending was just incoherent and irrational. Reminded me of being a kid and trying to get away with half assing something, like an essay or something. Ignorantly thinking YEAH THIS'LL WORK!

I dunno tho, like i said, the writing was amazing then POOMF DAHELL

I remember doing that I wonder if they got the same thing I got for half a**ing work an hour of the parents yelling at me so did ea yell at them would be funny

[garrusfan1]

Eradyn wrote...

Walters and Hudson do not the the artistic integrity of the Mass Effect team make. I feel for the rest of the writing team. You can tell by their initial tweets and posts that they were upset, and why wouldn't they be? Two narcissistic egomaniacs took the reigns from the team's hands and shat all over what should have been a masterpiece at the very last minute. Now the team has to grin and bear it so they can keep their jobs. If they didn't, their careers would be over in this industry. It's very small and close, still.

I wrote something similar to this. Why can't the two people who wrote it just say it instead of letting their team of amazing writers who they went behind their backs and wrote that thing they call an ending (that alone is a huge slap in the face) anyways they let them take the flak with them knowing they can't say no we didn't write this it angers me that they just ****** all over the amazing writers by doings that anyone else agree I am gonna stop before I rant

[ld1449]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Walters and Hudson do not the the artistic integrity of the Mass Effect team make. I feel for the rest of the writing team. You can tell by their initial tweets and posts that they were upset, and why wouldn't they be? Two narcissistic egomaniacs took the reigns from the team's hands and shat all over what should have been a masterpiece at the very last minute. Now the team has to grin and bear it so they can keep their jobs. If they didn't, their careers would be over in this industry. It's very small and close, still.

I wrote something similar to this. Why can't the two people who wrote it just say it instead of letting their team of amazing writers who they went behind their backs and wrote that thing they call an ending (that alone is a huge slap in the face) anyways they let them take the flak with them knowing they can't say no we didn't write this it angers me that they just ****** all over the amazing writers by doings that anyone else agree I am gonna stop before I rant

Guuusfraba

[DMWW]

asagishepherd wrote...

What was it, 60000 people voted they hated the ending in one facebook/twitter page? The new polls have a couple thousand voting?

Where are the 60000 people? Why haven't they come back praising bioware for the EC? My guess, they moved on.

This isn't consistent. ME3 has sold several million copies, so the overwhelming majority of players didn't vote in either poll. Either 

(a) the 60000 people should be ignored because it's a negligible fraction of the overall player base; or
( the subsequent polls shouldn't be ignored even though a few thousand is lower than 60,000.

[o Ventus]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Walters and Hudson do not the the artistic integrity of the Mass Effect team make. I feel for the rest of the writing team. You can tell by their initial tweets and posts that they were upset, and why wouldn't they be? Two narcissistic egomaniacs took the reigns from the team's hands and shat all over what should have been a masterpiece at the very last minute. Now the team has to grin and bear it so they can keep their jobs. If they didn't, their careers would be over in this industry. It's very small and close, still.

I wrote something similar to this. Why can't the two people who wrote it just say it instead of letting their team of amazing writers who they went behind their backs and wrote that thing they call an ending (that alone is a huge slap in the face) anyways they let them take the flak with them knowing they can't say no we didn't write this it angers me that they just ****** all over the amazing writers by doings that anyone else agree I am gonna stop before I rant

Periods. They. Are. Your. Friend.

[ld1449]

o Ventus wrote...


Periods. They. Are. Your. Friend.

L.O.L.

[asagishepherd]

DMWW wrote...

asagishepherd wrote...

What was it, 60000 people voted they hated the ending in one facebook/twitter page? The new polls have a couple thousand voting?

Where are the 60000 people? Why haven't they come back praising bioware for the EC? My guess, they moved on.

This isn't consistent. ME3 has sold several million copies, so the overwhelming majority of players didn't vote in either poll. Either 

(a) the 60000 people should be ignored because it's a negligible fraction of the overall player base; or
( the subsequent polls shouldn't be ignored even though a few thousand is lower than 60,000.

My point wasn't whether or not polls should be valid.

My point is 60000 cared enough to vote before, now only a few thousand care to vote now. It seems the care factor has dropped considerably.

[varcety]

Argable wrote...


Casey's baby? If it belongs to anyone, I'd say it belongs to Drew Karpyshyn. You know, the guy who wrote two of the three games and the only books that weren't terrible? The granddaddy of the ME universe?

After he was moved to TOR, he quit. I can't say I know whether he moved willingly or not, but he's the one who built this universe.

Hmmmmmm no, read Karpashyn's tweets about the ending. He said that Casey contributed most to the franchise(not to diminish Drew's achievements in writing the first two games, of course, I think he did an exellent job) .
In terms of a TV-Series: Casey is somewhat of a showrunner who comes up with the overall plot etc'  while it's up to the lead writer to write the individual pieces.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Drew is just backing up a colleague under fire. Very few on the record statements are made in the gaming business attacking former employers or former colleagues.

Drew even cited ME3 and DA2 as "proof" that Bioware can go on without him. Not sure if the joke was intentional.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 05 juillet 2012 - 07:53 .

[SpamBot2000]

Also Mr. Karpyshyn let it be known that he would be too busy to see ME3 endings for several months.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 05 juillet 2012 - 07:57 .

[comrade gando]

This game needs a reworked ending, not only for the fans but for the series itself. Such a great series to end on such a... Meh note is just sad. What could have been.

For the sake of the series, there HAS to be more to this.

[Insane_Ivan]

Yes they are in denial and they may need someone to simplify it to them. Here I will try.

Hey Casey and Mac! Your Art Sucks! Most of the plot holes are still there! Step down and let a real professional do some work on the ending!.

-Hold The Line

-Insane_Ivan

[LaughingDragon]

shadowkinz wrote...

I don't know what to think... 96% of the game is ****ing amazing and well written, they probably outsourced the ending like dues ex did with their boss fights lol..

it's hard to believe that such amazing writing just derped out at the end of the game, but the original ending was just incoherent and irrational. Reminded me of being a kid and trying to get away with half assing something, like an essay or something. Ignorantly thinking YEAH THIS'LL WORK!

I dunno tho, like i said, the writing was amazing then POOMF DAHELL

I am one of the hardcore ME snobs, absolutely hated the endings with passion (like so bad I almost burst into flames with hate)...

...But I am honest enough to admit the game itself was not bad. It made some good improvements over the previous two, and it WAS a good solid game. The ME3 team made the game look great, the combat was fun and exciting....

But what KILLS it for me is that the feel is wrong. It's hard to describe without a 10 page rant, but bottom line is that it doesn't have the same spirit / soul as the previous 2 games and it feels wrong, it's evident to me all game but becomes glaringly evident especially toward the end. 

My honest opinion is that 98% of the ME3 team produced a AAA 9.5 score amazing game that was basically ruined by poor product management / lead writing decisions. 

Modifié par LaughingDragon, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .

[comrade gando]

Insane_Ivan wrote...

Yes they are in denial and they may need someone to simplify it to them. Here I will try.

Hey Casey and Mac! Your Art Sucks! Most of the plot holes are still there! Step down and let a real professional do some work on the ending!.

-Hold The Line

-Insane_Ivan

Hooah!

[LaughingDragon]

Insane_Ivan wrote...

Yes they are in denial and they may need someone to simplify it to them. Here I will try.

Hey Casey and Mac! Your Art Sucks! Most of the plot holes are still there! Step down and let a real professional do some work on the ending!.

-Hold The Line

-Insane_Ivan

Yeah. Not to be a jerk to Casey and Mac because I'm sure on a personal level they are great guys...

But it was super super obvious from that Jessica Merizan interview that Casey and Mac just do not get it. 

How can we explain it to them? It would be like at the last 10 minutes of the Lord of the Rings, a great trilogy, Frodo is carrying the ring into Mount Doom and the same Hologram kid from ME3 steps out and is like SURPRISE I MADE THE RING LOL you must choose from 3 endings I pulled out of my ass that make no sense to anyone but me!

Or at the end of star wars, Vader picks up the emperor and kills him, then vader dies, then the Catalyst appears and is like HEY HOW YA'LL DOING IT"S MEEE the catalyst I control the force you must choose to make the galaxy green eyed synthetic zombies or (insert whack nonsense) etc.

So if Casey or Mac reads this, seriously, I was enjoying ME so much for the past years just like it was a classic legendary story like LOTR or star wars and then in the final hour you guys absolutely KILLED It for me. I mean totally killed it...like infinite NOOOOOOOOO.....

Modifié par LaughingDragon, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:19 .