361 réponses à ce sujet

[garrusfan1]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Blitzhawk65 wrote...

Makes you feel for all of the Bioware staff that put their hearts into the game and have had their work (some of it very good) crapped on because a couple people couldn't get the ending right. They get to feel the heat, and they don't have much of a chance to come out against it without feeling backlash from their employers.

That always makes me rage they didn't just give us those things they called endings they won't admit that only two people wrote it. Which means they not only anger fans but let the other writers that didn't make the ending take the backlash with them so not only do they write the endings behind the other writers backs (that alone is a slap in the face) but they let them take as much flak as they do pretty S***ty 

Did anyone els feel this way

[Spartas Husky]

Probably both

[Cyne]

I'd say the majority of them are not in denial and know exactly why the ending failed, but are powerless to do anything about it. It's a case of the right people not having sufficient creative control over the project.

[MB957]

I suspect the team of writers, are aware of the issue of the bad ending. I cant imagine professional writers, in a group setting, would not be able to critique that ending and find all the holes in it.

one thing I am curious about is that bioware keeps saying that it is a minority of people displeased with the endings. I dont know the real numbers, so I cant say. I can see that the majority of forum users are unhappy with the endings. But what of the complete fanbase?

If those of us unhappy with endings are the majority, then the sales and revenue in the future will tell that story, and then whether aware or in denial will be irrelevent. EA wants to make money.

if, however, it is a minority that are displeased with the endings, then I cant blame bioware for rolling right along with their plans for future titles and games.

[Grubas]

ld1449 wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...


I guess only EA loyals buying game then. But then again, do EA loyals even exist??

Oh haven't you heard??? According to Ninja Stan its just "edgy" and "cool" to hate on EA. There's no real hate for the company that destroys games by rushing them out the door and makes unique experiences into more gray mush that has a Broader appeal.

I heard. The thread has been closed for no reason because users started to make legitimate arguments, moderators were unwilling to counter. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Yes, I think Mac and Casey have deluded themselves into think their end was wonderful and so chock full of artistic integrity it is lightyears ahead of itself and refused to accept it's crap for what it is. They probably just gave us EC to shut most of us up (and unfortunetly it's working in many cases...)

As for the rest of the Mass Effect 3 crew...I think they are keeping their opinions to themselves, mostly because they could get fired for outright calling their bosses on their bullsh!t. Same reason why they didn't say "hey I think this end will just confuse everyone" when ME3 was still in production.

[Dan Dark]

ld1449 wrote...

I believe the team knows.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the team knows just how bad it is.

It quite frankly is the only thing that gives me hope. And its the reason I'm still here posting as much as I can and trying to push a little bit more.

I personally believe Weekes post, he denied it later but it was the weakest denial I'd ever seen. He didn't even claim it to be false, just said "I didn't write it."

I never heard a dirrect "Its not true" Chris and Weekes just posted repeatedly "This was not written by a Bioware employee/I didn't write that."

So yeah, I'm very much convinced that a good chunk of the writing team is well aware of the issues. I'm also convinced that if the pressure can be kept up we'll eventually see more from it, but only if people are willing to push a little more.

Furthermore, Mac is no longer the lead writer for future DLC work, as seen by a tweet (now deleted) and a solicitation for a new lead writer for the ME project that was leaked.

And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

I'm hoping they'll fix it. Hoping as much as I can.

Not sure if they will but regardless, I have no doubts that Mac and Casey are basically blacklisted in their own offices atm

Do you have any links to confirm the parts I bolded? Or does anyone else have links, or, heck, any form of proof? Because I would really, really, really, really [repeat for about an hour], really like to believe that is true. It'd be even better if it had happened earlier, of course, but at least now it would mean they won't be in a position to butcher anything else.

[ld1449]

MB957 wrote...

I suspect the team of writers, are aware of the issue of the bad ending. I cant imagine professional writers, in a group setting, would not be able to critique that ending and find all the holes in it.

one thing I am curious about is that bioware keeps saying that it is a minority of people displeased with the endings. I dont know the real numbers, so I cant say. I can see that the majority of forum users are unhappy with the endings. But what of the complete fanbase?

If those of us unhappy with endings are the majority, then the sales and revenue in the future will tell that story, and then whether aware or in denial will be irrelevent. EA wants to make money.

if, however, it is a minority that are displeased with the endings, then I cant blame bioware for rolling right along with their plans for future titles and games.

Trust me. We were not a minority. You don't get such an uproar with more than 60k people on facebook and almost every person on multiple forums ****ing for months on end by just having a few angry people.

DA2 is "a few angry people" because there are a good number that can be said that enjoyed DA2 despite its flaws.

This was almost universal hate.

They keep saying vocal minority because some people will believe it and roll over saying that its hopeless.

But a vocal minority doesn't make EA's stock drop by nearly 6 percent in the first two weeks, nor a 20 percent drop in the subsequent months.

They don't get coverage by the BBB or a mainstream news article, or ESPN.

We were the majority.

Now with the EC we're split almost right down the middle at fifty fifty. AT BEST.

[ld1449]

Dan Dark wrote...


Do you have any links to confirm the parts I bolded? Or does anyone else have links, or, heck, any form of proof? Because I would really, really, really, really [repeat for about an hour], really like to believe that is true. It'd be even better if it had happened earlier, of course, but at least now it would mean they won't be in a position to butcher anything else.

I'll try to find the solicitation for a New Lead writer but no promises since it was about a month or two ago.

Casey being a producer and not a director though is easy. Just look up Ms. Merizian's interview about the EC, she very clearly states

"Hi I'm here with lead writer Mac walters and EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Casey Hudson."

Anyway I'll try to find the solicitation notice EA sent out for a new lead writer (like I said the tweet was deleted)

[ld1449]

Grubas wrote...



I heard. The thread has been closed for no reason because users started to make legitimate arguments, moderators were unwilling to counter. 

Lol, Grubas you're here too?

Yeah, I miss that thread. I especially miss the part I took out almost the whole laundry list of things Bioware has and hasn't done since this started on Mr. Woo.

Good times.

Then he got the OTHER moderator to shut it down to make it not seem like he was running away (which other members were accusing Bioware moderators and comunity people to be doing repeatedly)

[garrusfan1]

Id1449 if what you said is true I feel good about that

Modifié par garrusfan1, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:30 .

[ld1449]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Id1449 if what you said is true I feel good about that

Like I said look up Ms. Merizian's interview

[wantedman dan]

I would posit that they're in denial, OP.

bydoritos wrote...

It's impossible to please everyone unfortunatly.

That's a terrible excuse for the vast amount of hatred for this ending.

[wantedman dan]

Grubas wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

DGMockingJay wrote...


I guess only EA loyals buying game then. But then again, do EA loyals even exist??

Oh haven't you heard??? According to Ninja Stan its just "edgy" and "cool" to hate on EA. There's no real hate for the company that destroys games by rushing them out the door and makes unique experiences into more gray mush that has a Broader appeal.

I heard. The thread has been closed for no reason because users started to make legitimate arguments, moderators were unwilling to counter. 

You're welcome.

[Krunjar]

Well honetly EA aside i liked the ending. I think people just got themselves too hyped up about it. Honestly mass effect was never as good as its fanboys make it out to be. And I believe the quality only slowly dropped through the series. Wit the ending being a big minus that was fixed by the EC.

[ld1449]

Ahh here we are.

Link to original thread (tweet and page has since been edited) and link to the solicitation.

EVIDENCE

NO MORE SPECULATION

MWAHAHAHAHA.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12316797/1

https://performancem...4206&company=EA

[garrusfan1]

wantedman dan wrote...

I would posit that they're in denial, OP.

bydoritos wrote...

It's impossible to please everyone unfortunatly.

That's a terrible excuse for the vast amount of hatred for this ending.

The excuse only works if it is less than 10% of people hate the product (in this case the ending) otherwise it is just a cop out

[ld1449]

wantedman dan wrote...


You're welcome.

Ahh wanted. I remember you back there too. Called out Casey and Mac too. Good on you.

[wantedman dan]

garrusfan1 wrote...

The excuse only works if it is less than 10% of people hate the product (in this case the ending) otherwise it is just a cop out

I wouldn't necessarily give it a definitive, universal cap, as all situations and contexts are different.

[wantedman dan]

ld1449 wrote...

Ahh wanted. I remember you back there too. Called out Casey and Mac too. Good on you.

That, and Stan's blatant hypocrisy.

Call me Dan, Daniel, etc. btw.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 05 juillet 2012 - 03:39 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

While it's very frustrating to see the devs act like nothings wrong, it's completely understandable why they have this attitude. When you devote time, resources and years of hard work into something, it basically becomes your baby. Therefore when people tell you it's bad, it's very difficult to accept that. I'm sure the devs put a lot of devotion into their work and hate to see a majority of people bash it.

However with that being said, there's also a point that can be reached, where you need to swallow your pride and admit to your mistakes. Now that is a very complicated and hard thing to do, because admitting you screwed up could be bad for the company. But the thing is, when you have an overwhelming amount of people telling you the ending was horrible, going into full detail as to why, you really should acknowledge their disappointment. You can argue that they did, but they did it in a way that was condescending, basically saying

"Alright, because YOU don't understand we'll go ahead and meet you half way by making an extended cut, that should clarify our vision." This is basically saying that there's nothing wrong with the endings, and that it's our fault we hated it. Even when playing through the EC, you can tell at certain points that there was an amount of bitterness in the air, especially when speaking to the Catalyst or initiating the Refusal ending.

But nevermind the fact the majority of fans were disappointed, you also got to consider the amount writers that have stepped forward to call Bioware out. Joss Whedon being one of them, and even some of devs from Dragon Age Origins have come out and said the ending was a problem. So despite the fact that it's difficult to admit your product was deeply flawed, we really have reached that point where Bioware should've admitted their mistake. Not to insult them but the words i would use for their attitude is childish and egotistical.

Going back to my initial question, do you think the devs are just in hardcore denial or they do know deep down the ending was terrible?

I think they know, atleast most of them. Casey and Mac might be in denial, but I doubt most of the devs at Bioware liked the ending either. I know for sure that no "...time, resources, and... hard work..." went into that ending.

[Dan Dark]

ld1449 wrote...

Ahh here we are.

Link to original thread (tweet and page has since been edited) and link to the solicitation.

EVIDENCE

NO MORE SPECULATION

MWAHAHAHAHA.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12316797/1

https://performancem...4206&company=EA

Oh, wow... nice! It is a little troubling it's for the Montreal studio rather than Edmonton, but still, it's a good find! Thanks!

[ld1449]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...



I think they know, atleast most of them. Casey and Mac might be in denial, but I doubt most of the devs at Bioware liked the ending either. I know for sure that no "...time, resources, and... hard work..." went into that ending.

Are we referring to the vanilla ending or the extended cut???

Because both kinda fit in my eyes.

[Conniving_Eagle]

ld1449 wrote...

I believe the team knows.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the team knows just how bad it is.

It quite frankly is the only thing that gives me hope. And its the reason I'm still here posting as much as I can and trying to push a little bit more.

I personally believe Weekes post, he denied it later but it was the weakest denial I'd ever seen. He didn't even claim it to be false, just said "I didn't write it."

I never heard a dirrect "Its not true" Chris and Weekes just posted repeatedly "This was not written by a Bioware employee/I didn't write that."

So yeah, I'm very much convinced that a good chunk of the writing team is well aware of the issues. I'm also convinced that if the pressure can be kept up we'll eventually see more from it, but only if people are willing to push a little more.

Furthermore, Mac is no longer the lead writer for future DLC work, as seen by a tweet (now deleted) and a solicitation for a new lead writer for the ME project that was leaked.

And Casey has gone from Dirrector to Producer as well. So yeah, they know.

I'm hoping they'll fix it. Hoping as much as I can.

Not sure if they will but regardless, I have no doubts that Mac and Casey are basically blacklisted in their own offices atm

I am hoping too, and that is very good news.

[Conniving_Eagle]

bydoritos wrote...

Well, the EC actually solved my problems with the endings.
And from what I saw on the forum, the response of the fans actually improved with the Extended cut (even if there still people that didn't like it)
So I don't think they are in denial.

It's impossible to please everyone unfortunatly.

In this case it would've been possible to please most people. Not with Extended Cut though, that isn't the problem.