361 réponses à ce sujet

[Stefanomarq]

I don't think they put much effort in writing the ending, since it's just a copy from Deus Ex

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a side note....God dammit why was Bioware planning to make the ending so damn nihilistic?

Pat Weekes had to argue to get the squad goodbyes and to not get Cortez automatically killed in the shuttle crash. Then there was the originally planned default "Harbinger kills squadmates" scene during the final run.

Seriously why were they trying to kill everyone/everything?

Mac and Casey.

Thank god they're not in charge anymore.

And reffering to your previous posts. The EC is an olive branch.

Its dried, withered, leafless and cracking. With a middle finger hidden behind their backs.

But an olive branch.

For me they need to do a bit more.

[StevenG_CT]

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a side note....God dammit why was Bioware planning to make the ending so damn nihilistic?

Pat Weekes had to argue to get the squad goodbyes and to not get Cortez automatically killed in the shuttle crash. Then there was the originally planned default "Harbinger kills squadmates" scene during the final run.

Seriously why were they trying to kill everyone/everything?

Personally I suspect that the original plan was much different and that they were forced to change everything at the 11th hour when it became clear that EA was not going to grant another extension on development time.

[wantedman dan]

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a side note....God dammit why was Bioware planning to make the ending so damn nihilistic?

Pat Weekes had to argue to get the squad goodbyes and to not get Cortez automatically killed in the shuttle crash. Then there was the originally planned default "Harbinger kills squadmates" scene during the final run.

Seriously why were they trying to kill everyone/everything?

Crackle, crackle

[comrade gando]

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a side note....God dammit why was Bioware planning to make the ending so damn nihilistic?

Pat Weekes had to argue to get the squad goodbyes and to not get Cortez automatically killed in the shuttle crash. Then there was the originally planned default "Harbinger kills squadmates" scene during the final run.

Seriously why were they trying to kill everyone/everything?

Mac and Casey.

Thank god they're not in charge anymore.

And reffering to your previous posts. The EC is an olive branch.

Its dried, withered, leafless and cracking. With a middle finger hidden behind their backs.

But an olive branch.

For me they need to do a bit more.

thank sweet baby jesus those clowns aren't writing the DLC. that gives me hope they have a shot at releasing a DLC that can clarify these "clarified" endings.

Modifié par comrade gando, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .

[wsowen02]

It didn't help that most of the gaming press were falling all over themselves to praise the game, deserved or not.

That IGN review read like a God damn advertisement (as do most of their reviews these days).

Modifié par wsowen02, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:47 .

[MegaSovereign]

wsowen02 wrote...

It didn't help that most of the gaming press were falling all over themselves to praise the game, deserved or not.

That IGN review read like a God damn advertisement (as do most of their reviews these days).

Even the ones that did anti-ending articles are ****ing hypocrites.

Eurogamer gave Mass Effect 3 10/10, but then a couple weeks later criticized the ending.

[spockjedi]

ld1449 wrote...

spockjedi wrote...

I think the responsibles for the ending are suffering from backfire effect. The more we criticize the ending, the more they'll believe the ending was brilliant.

Well...if that's the case my faith in humanity just went AWOL

in all seriousness though, I highly doubt that could be the case.

Maybe with ONE person maybe TWO (Wink wink nudge nudge) but not an entire group.

Because if the whole team is like this then we're screwed.

That's why you can't have faith in humanity.  We are far more stupid than most people can imagine.
You said one or two people, but we have seen evidence that the ending wasn't peer reviwed like the good missions of the game (Rannoch, Tuchanka...) were, and it was a decision made by a very small group. So my charge still stands.

Modifié par spockjedi, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:50 .

[MChang1984]

I would have loved a Mass Effect 2 style ending against Harbringer.

Get all your allies to be assigned roles and have new loyalty missions or die if the loyalty mission in ME 3 is not completed.

Make the Cinematics just like the Omega Relay on the collector base where you upgrades do matter for the War Assets.

[kw0lf]

The leaked script spiraled everything out of control. And, it seems that they may have needed 4 games to tell full story, so lots of stuff got short shrift.

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

wsowen02 wrote...

It didn't help that most of the gaming press were falling all over themselves to praise the game, deserved or not.

That IGN review read like a God damn advertisement (as do most of their reviews these days).

Even the ones that did anti-ending articles are ****ing hypocrites.

Eurogamer gave Mass Effect 3 10/10, but then a couple weeks later criticized the ending.

Yeah well from what I understand Mass Effect 3, Bioware and EA have pissed off alot more than just their own fans.

Alot of the "review sites" that "reviewed" the game, and gave it glowing reviews, later had to admit that they didn't even finish the game.

They also had to go back and retract those perfect review scores so the "75 perfect scores" now stands at around 40, maybe even lower since this whole thing got started.

They pissed off retailers because for a good long while (and maybe even now as well) they had (or might still have) Stock that isn't moving. And eventually they'll have to buy back (they being EA) the unmoved product. Which is why they ran those two adds "ME3 biggest fan reaction in history" and "20$ off its not the destination its the journey" not to mention that they pissed off Amazon who was giving full refunds and eventually took it off the roster because the product was "not as advertised"

They also got scrutiny by the BBB and another group in the UK. Though both contradicted eachother with one saying it was false advertising and the other saying it wasn't.

Ultimately a useless verdict in any case since neither organization had any legal pull, but still not something you want to hear for what essentially equates to Facebook for investors.

Unless future DLC thoroughly fixes the game this is getting blacklisted to never be mentioned again.

As it is their blog posts right here on the BSN have all been circulating around DA2 and the future DA3 for the last several months with not a peep out of ME3

[Oilking72]

Wow, there's a whole lot of pathetic going on here. All the little theories and assumptions going on. So awesome. And the venomous bile and crap being thrown at two people that were integral in bringing you the series you supposedly love.

What are you people still doing here? You obviously think Bioware is a joke being ordered around by EA stooges. You apparently think the writing is beyond bad. And yet you're going to hang around here like a disease, spewing negativity and nothing original either.

As far as I'm concerned the EC has made the endings a lot better. Are they fantastic? No, they're probably in the 7 territory, IMO. But they've made me want to play this game again and I'm happy for that.

Please continue your ever repetative routine as you're obviously enjoying yourselves.

[The Eruptionist]

There's a line between catharsis and simply being hateful. This thread and the posts in it have crossed that line. You don't really have any objective reasons to call the endings "horrible" or "disgraceful" or whatever hyperbolic adjective you want to use. It seems incredibly fickle of the fanbase to turn on the creators of Mass Effect at the drop of the hat simply because they disagreed with how they should end their game.

The ending wasn't what you wanted. Okay, we all get that. Just because you think Bioware failed doesn't mean that they did or that they even think they did. There's plenty to be proud of in ME3 and yes that includes the endings. I haven't seen any arguments from people that actually base their criticism on anything more than personal opinion. They think they're based on logic and objective truth but little is actually presented.

Also, don't pretend that the hate you display so freely is justified simply because you are part of a group that considers itself big enough to be 'correct'. A million people can be wrong.

[RogueBot]

There are certain things that are widely considered "bad", such as Jar Jar Binks, Uwe Boll movies, and Gigli. Mass Effect 3's ending is another one of those things, and there were enough people working on the series that surely some of them recognize its problems. Whether or not their opinions were taken into account when crafting the ending is another thing.

The "masterminds" behind the ending will probably never truly recognize the problems with it, in the same way that George Lucas will never understand Jar Jar hate.

Modifié par RogueBot, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:10 .

[The Eruptionist]

Oilking72 wrote...

Wow, there's a whole lot of pathetic going on here. All the little theories and assumptions going on. So awesome. And the venomous bile and crap being thrown at two people that were integral in bringing you the series you supposedly love.

What are you people still doing here? You obviously think Bioware is a joke being ordered around by EA stooges. You apparently think the writing is beyond bad. And yet you're going to hang around here like a disease, spewing negativity and nothing original either.

As far as I'm concerned the EC has made the endings a lot better. Are they fantastic? No, they're probably in the 7 territory, IMO. But they've made me want to play this game again and I'm happy for that.

Please continue your ever repetative routine as you're obviously enjoying yourselves.

Seconded. Good timing on the post lol.

Modifié par The Eruptionist, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:10 .

[chemiclord]

I think Bioware knows that some fans are still displeased with it... but they also feel that they had a story they were trying to tell. Both are important, and it a question of balancing the two. Literally ANYONE can write a story fans will love (just check out the love dished out to fan works on this site, for example). It's a bit tougher to write a story you want to write that fans will love.

[Caenis]

I am really so glad this conversation is taking place, because so many people have mentioned here points I have thought about, but couldn't put into words, and have brought up things I hadn't thought about at all. Like I never thought about all the professional writers taking the blame for the bad writing and poor choices of what I believe had to be 2. I believe this because sometimes I sit writing away at my scripts and in my novels, then I play something like ME or DA and I think there's no way I could ever be that good of a writer, look at how diverse everything is...then I realize that there were different writers with specialized skills and strengths writing each thing and that there wasn't a single writer writing alone on the whole project, it was a collaboration and that's what made it good. Anytime something is realllyyy bad, it signals that a collaboration either did not take place, so you could get the input of professional writers (usually indicative of a power struggle), or the collaboration became disgruntled and individuals wrote whatever they want. Considering the story overall was great until that ending, I lean towards power struggle, the whole thing where, "I make the big decisions and at the end of the day what we say counts," *shuts the door* really shows.

I feel that Casey and Mac will never make this again because their reputation as writers and game designers have suffered NOT the other writers. This goes on the mental track records of fans, AND will ultimately reflect 'them' and their choices, as the Bioware teams have flourished under different guidance. If we see them on another project it will also effect whether we trust their product and what they say (like how we feel when we hear the name Peter Molyneux), and may even mean that their decisions will be more scrutinized or that they will attempt to protect their reputation by not doing it again.

The "Lead Writers" IMO, ALWAYS take most of the "social"/"media" pain, so even if it had been any of the other writers which I don't think it was (assuming), they'd get the brunt, and if it had been successful, they would get the credit not the many good writers on the team who worked hard just as well as they did. Plus, writers keep portfolios of what they write, so in the business world I don't think this would be on their record, what they wrote personally would be. But the Game Industry--has become a place for Egos and power struggles, not like it used to be when things were simple, made in basements with a few friends who put their heart and soul into their work, and when games didn't cost 2million+ for huge blunders like this one, and when we didn't expect the world to be given to us xD.

[Binary_Helix 1]

ME3 was ruined by the megalomania of two men.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:21 .

[darkshadow136]

I think they are in denial, and I think they only listened to the critical ideas that supported their original vision for the ending, which I still think is bad even after the extended cut. At this point i don't care what they do. I have moved on to other games and other developers that are putting out the games I want to play, and Bioware as far as I'm concerned is done and won't get anymore of my money.

[Grogimus]

I liked Mass Effect 3. Even the original endings. Perhaps I am indeed in the minority. So be it. Doesn't bother me at all.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Oilking72 wrote...

Wow, there's a whole lot of pathetic going on here. All the little theories and assumptions going on. So awesome. And the venomous bile and crap being thrown at two people that were integral in bringing you the series you supposedly love.

What are you people still doing here? You obviously think Bioware is a joke being ordered around by EA stooges. You apparently think the writing is beyond bad. And yet you're going to hang around here like a disease, spewing negativity and nothing original either.

As far as I'm concerned the EC has made the endings a lot better. Are they fantastic? No, they're probably in the 7 territory, IMO. But they've made me want to play this game again and I'm happy for that.

Please continue your ever repetative routine as you're obviously enjoying yourselves.

It's amusing how ME3's apologists can never make a post without name calling and condescension.

If you like ME3 then you got your money's worth but spare us your high and mighty attitude.

[Mathias]

Caenis wrote...

I am really so glad this conversation is taking place, because so many people have mentioned here points I have thought about, but couldn't put into words, and have brought up things I hadn't thought about at all. Like I never thought about all the professional writers taking the blame for the bad writing and poor choices of what I believe had to be 2. I believe this because sometimes I sit writing away at my scripts and in my novels, then I play something like ME or DA and I think there's no way I could ever be that good of a writer, look at how diverse everything is...then I realize that there were different writers with specialized skills and strengths writing each thing and that there wasn't a single writer writing alone on the whole project, it was a collaboration and that's what made it good. Anytime something is realllyyy bad, it signals that a collaboration either did not take place, so you could get the input of professional writers (usually indicative of a power struggle), or the collaboration became disgruntled and individuals wrote whatever they want. Considering the story overall was great until that ending, I lean towards power struggle, the whole thing where, "I make the big decisions and at the end of the day what we say counts," *shuts the door* really shows.

I feel that Casey and Mac will never make this again because their reputation as writers and game designers have suffered NOT the other writers. This goes on the mental track records of fans, AND will ultimately reflect 'them' and their choices, as the Bioware teams have flourished under different guidance. If we see them on another project it will also effect whether we trust their product and what they say (like how we feel when we hear the name Peter Molyneux), and may even mean that their decisions will be more scrutinized or that they will attempt to protect their reputation by not doing it again.

The "Lead Writers" IMO, ALWAYS take most of the "social"/"media" pain, so even if it had been any of the other writers which I don't think it was (assuming), they'd get the brunt, and if it had been successful, they would get the credit not the many good writers on the team who worked hard just as well as they did. Plus, writers keep portfolios of what they write, so in the business world I don't think this would be on their record, what they wrote personally would be. But the Game Industry--has become a place for Egos and power struggles, not like it used to be when things were simple, made in basements with a few friends who put their heart and soul into their work, and when games didn't cost 2million+ for huge blunders like this one, and when we didn't expect the world to be given to us xD.

Good read, and you're right. I have to give credit to both of them for the accomplishments they made. Mac did write the character of Garrus, and Casey did deliver an overall amazing series. Unfortunately they kinda lost their minds near the end. That might not be the most classy way to put it, but I do feel like it's appropriate because it's difficult to fathom how they thought it was a great idea to make an ending like that, and then not let any of the writers look at it.

Unfortunately for the both of them, they're gonna have to live with this dark cloud hanging over their head for the rest of their careers. For example Mac Walters will always be known in the gaming industry as that guy that ruined Mass Effect. And some people will probably get turned off from projects by Casey Hudson, out of fear that he'll end his game on a tangent and ****** off the fans.

Hopefully the team will figure things out and try to restore the franchise.

[Caenis]

Oilking72 wrote...

Wow, there's a whole lot of pathetic going on here. All the little theories and assumptions going on. So awesome. And the venomous bile and crap being thrown at two people that were integral in bringing you the series you supposedly love.

What are you people still doing here? You obviously think Bioware is a joke being ordered around by EA stooges. You apparently think the writing is beyond bad. And yet you're going to hang around here like a disease, spewing negativity and nothing original either.

As far as I'm concerned the EC has made the endings a lot better. Are they fantastic? No, they're probably in the 7 territory, IMO. But they've made me want to play this game again and I'm happy for that.

Please continue your ever repetative routine as you're obviously enjoying yourselves.

I am here because I enjoyed AND loved ME3, have been a huge fan of Bioware since waaay back when I was just a little kid. I grew up with bioware. But most importantly, I know that "Casey and Mac" are not 'solely' responsible for creating great content, they were part of a team, and that team made the game great, and without that team we wouldn't have had a great game and that at some point Casey and Mac decided to DITCH the team. This really isn't about the EC and what it does, it's not about how much we love or hate bioware, obviously we're still here because we enjoy Bioware's games enough to speak out when it does something that is out of the ordinary from the usual awesomeness that we expect. If anything it's a GOOD thing to give feedback even when it's negative, because that helps a product to improve. 

Just because we love something doesn't mean we should look passed where it went glaringly wrong and that we can't talk about it.

And yeah, it is nice to talk about this with other people. Just like it's nice to talk to people who like dogs instead of being surrounded by people who hate them. I assume your frustration comes because there are more people who hate dogs than there are that likes them and you are tired of hearing about it. I recommend instead of bashing people for having legitimate feelings and concerns create a support group for people who loved the game and want a refuge for other lovers who see no problem with it. (Nothing wrong with that either, just saying).

[Mathias]

It's also quite possible that if enough people stop buying Bioware products, it will likely cause EA to chop off the Bioware name which will effectively kill the company. If that happens then Mac Walters and Casey Hudson will have a reputation for not only ruining Mass Effect, but also being key players in the destruction of Bioware. Not the sole reason, but part of the reason.

Good luck finding work with a reputation like that.

[ld1449]

The Eruptionist wrote...

There's a line between catharsis and simply being hateful. This thread and the posts in it have crossed that line. You don't really have any objective reasons to call the endings "horrible" or "disgraceful" or whatever hyperbolic adjective you want to use. It seems incredibly fickle of the fanbase to turn on the creators of Mass Effect at the drop of the hat simply because they disagreed with how they should end their game.

The ending wasn't what you wanted. Okay, we all get that. Just because you think Bioware failed doesn't mean that they did or that they even think they did. There's plenty to be proud of in ME3 and yes that includes the endings. I haven't seen any arguments from people that actually base their criticism on anything more than personal opinion. They think they're based on logic and objective truth but little is actually presented.

Also, don't pretend that the hate you display so freely is justified simply because you are part of a group that considers itself big enough to be 'correct'. A million people can be wrong.

What is a review if not the opinion of a reviewer.

People have stated repeatedly why 'logically', Synthesis simply does not work, nor why the catalyst makes any sense whatsoever.

To simply boil down all arguments to the point of saying "That's just your opinion. And you're not being objective" (In your opinion mind you) is basically a counter to anything anyone states off hand simply because, in your eyes, they're not able to remain objective.

There is plenty to be proud of in ME. Never said the whole game was bad. Just the ending that fits about as well as a square in a triangle shaped hole.

And then you claim that we turn on the creators of ME3 at the drop of a hat.

Do any of us know Mac Walters or Casey? Do they know any of us? No.

Do we know just how much influence they had on the creation of the previous installments? No.

For all I know Casey could have been spending most of his time going to comic cons and hyping up the game more than the actual dirrecting of it. For all I know Mac could have written half a sidequest in the game.

For all I know Mac could have written the whole thing and Casey held his teams hand every step of the way.

Since I simply do not know how much or how little they actually contributed, but I can be fairly certain based on information and the fact that neither of them have been heard from in three months that they are indeed the ones responsible for this ending then yes I find that I can be fairly pissed off at them.

However lets look at Helper, DA2's writer for Anders.

I hated Anders in DA2.

I did however like the dwarf origins in DAO that she wrote, I also liked the quests she wrote for DA:O that included the search for Brankah, the landsmeet and a few others I can't recall right now.

So fine forgive and forget. You don't see me posting against her do you?

I'll hapilly say that DA2's Anders was the worst part of DA2 but I'll also give credit where credit is due.

Since I know about Casey and Macs involvement as what I know about the afterlife then I can only base their work on what I do know.

Namely this ending.

So I don't see where the "betrayal" is. I didn't sing their praises before this and then just suddenly turn on them.

Do I actively pray that they get fired and go live in gutters? No.

Would I be/Am I dismayed to see them demoted? No.