188 réponses à ce sujet

[Guglio08]

 I'm currently on my fourth playthrough of Mass Effect 3. Even now, I'm still discovering cool little things that I missed the first time. Which is why I love ME2 and ME3. Yet every time I play this game, from my very first playthrough on midnight release to right now, I always run into this little problem.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with Specialist Traynor?

I'm an amateur writer, so I take issue with a lot of things that show up in entertainment. There's a popular phrase, "show, don't tell." It means that if you want to convey a specific quality about a character, you should integrate it into their personality and their actions. If you want a character to be reckless, you have them do reckless things, instead of someone saying "yeah, he's a reckless dude." It's a very simple and common writing technique, and in the case of Traynor, someone at BioWare forgot how to use it.

Specialist Traynor is purportedly a valuable asset on the Normandy. Yet almost immediately into her introduction, we are told that she's brilliant and really, really useful. EDI says she's been "extremely helpful." EDI will later heap praise on Traynor's abilities. Traynor has a likeable personality and is a good Alliance replacement for Kelly Chambers. But Traynor also does nothing else of consequence. Everything about her supposedly amazing abilities are completely absent until she's used to bring missions to our attention. Her two defining moments are Grissom Academy and Horizon, and she basically does nothing else.

Let's contrast this to Steve Cortez, who, in my opinion, is both written far better as a character, and is also much more integral to the story. Cortez is a remorseful character with a very positive layer underneath. He's an exemplar shuttle pilot, but we don't learn this because EDI says so. We learn this through actually seeing him in action. The way he talks about keeping Shepard safe during missions, his love for tinkering with the shuttle, and his passion for anything with an engine are clearly displayed for the player. But his talents are never exposited to us.

Traynor is just a smug, pointless character. Her character could have easily been rolled into EDI. She exists purely as a love interest for FemShep. And it's a shame.

[nhcre8tv1]

Look at my face.
This is my disapproving face.

[Peranor]

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

Look at my face.
This is my disapproving face.

Go on... take off your mask. I dare you!

[Guglio08]

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

Look at my face.
This is my disapproving face.

I see a helmet lol.

[nhcre8tv1]

Guglio08 wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

Look at my face.
This is my disapproving face.

I see a helmet lol.

And that's not the last of it you'll see...

AWAAAAY

[yukon fire]

meh, she's just Liara from ME1 reused since Liara seems completely different every game

[dorktainian]

i'd .....

[Guglio08]

yukon fire wrote...

meh, she's just Liara from ME1 reused since Liara seems completely different every game

I've never played ME1 (PS3 user here). What did Liara do in ME1?

I will say that Traynor and Kelly Chambers have extremely similar roles; however I find Chambers to be superior because her psychology angle is actually used. She provides insight on the crew in meaningful ways. She's also very confident of herself and her usefulness, as opposed to Traynor who constantly seeks approval.

[shodiswe]

Well, she did what she was supposed to do... I find it more questionable what all those other people around the normandy are actualy doing... Are they there to sanitize the bathroom after wrex has been on a visit? How many custodians to you truly need?

[KiwiQuiche]

She still gives you more info than the so-called Shadow Broker.

[KiwiQuiche]

Guglio08 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

meh, she's just Liara from ME1 reused since Liara seems completely different every game

I've never played ME1 (PS3 user here). What did Liara do in ME1?

I will say that Traynor and Kelly Chambers have extremely similar roles; however I find Chambers to be superior because her psychology angle is actually used. She provides insight on the crew in meaningful ways. She's also very confident of herself and her usefulness, as opposed to Traynor who constantly seeks approval.

Kelly is also a dirty little spy.

[Guglio08]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

She still gives you more info than the so-called Shadow Broker.

We see, through chat logs, that Liara as the Broker is diverting resources to the Crucible project.

And yes, Traynor does things, but her supposed amazingly useful abilities never seem to manifest. We are told that she is helpful but she never does helpful things. 

[Ageless Face]

Traynor is not smug.

She is bringing us intel all the time. She will duel Liara and claim her rightfull place as the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:44 .

[clennon8]

I hear what you're saying with the thing about "telling now showing." Thing is, I think they"showed" enough. EDI's expository comments about Samantha's wonderfulness did feel a little forced and 4th wall-breaking, I'll grant you that.

You mentioned Cortez. His arc had its own problems. Mainly, some really cheesy writing in a couple of parts.

Overall, though, I thought Traynor and Cortez were both pretty well done.

Modifié par clennon8, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:55 .

[Skullheart]

Guglio08 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

She still gives you more info than the so-called Shadow Broker.

We see, through chat logs, that Liara as the Broker is diverting resources to the Crucible project.

And yes, Traynor does things, but her supposed amazingly useful abilities never seem to manifest. We are told that she is helpful but she never does helpful things. 

Thanks to her you know about Grissom Academy, the Cerberus refugees and Sanctuary. She is way more useful than Liara as Shadow Broker.

[clennon8]

Now, see, I liked Traynor quite a bit, but I kinda hate it when people use her to play up some petty vendetta against Liara. For one thing, the writers took some things away from Liara in order to beef up Traynor's character. For another, if Liara did nothing else in the entire damn series, she prevented the late Shadow Broker from selling Shepard's corpse to the Collectors.

In short, Traynor is great, and Liara is still awesome.

[Raging_Pulse]

Samantha Traynor is fine the way she is IMO. She convincingly fulfills the role of assistant/comm specialist, no more no less. No issues with her whatsoever.

[Guglio08]

clennon8 wrote...

I hear what you're saying with thing about "telling now showing." Thing is, I think they"showed" enough. EDI's expository comments about Samantha's wonderfulness did feel a little forced and 4th wall-breaking, I'll grant you that.

You mentioned Cortez. His arc had its own problems. Mainly, some really cheesy writing in a couple of parts.

Overall, though, I thought Traynor and Cortez were pretty well done.

I'll agree with the cheesy writing bit, however I felt that Cortez's personal storyline was really well done. He had a lost love interest that was partially vindicated because Shepard took down the Collectors, and then later Shepard revives Cortez's hope for the future. They seemed like really good friends. I can't comment on the Shepard / Cortez romance since I personally have never done it.

Traynor, however, does not have a story arc. She has no personal goal at all. Yet it almost feels like the writers are trying to force you to like her. Literally, the first time you meet her, EDI is like "yo, she's amazing." It's aggravating to have a character forced upon you like that. The only reason I let Diana Allers on the ship is because I almost never have to interact with her.

Also the chess scene infuriates me. At least with Garrus, I can choose whether or not to best him at sniping, but with Traynor, I am forced into losing at chess. Yet another way to show us how brilliant she is. I'm pretty sure a tactician like Shepard would beat her, but I guess I'm just projectin myself onto Shepard here.

Modifié par Guglio08, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:01 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

There are plenty of behind-the-scenes work that's omitted for gameplay simplicity purposes. Traynor's role isn't all that bad. It would probably be boring for a lot of people if the game were to expand on her intel gathering job.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:00 .

[naes1984]

She lays on the "I'm so quirky" vibe a little too much. Probably the same reason people like Felicia Day or Zoey Dachenneel. I could do without.

[clennon8]

Guglio08 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I hear what you're saying with thing about "telling now showing." Thing is, I think they"showed" enough. EDI's expository comments about Samantha's wonderfulness did feel a little forced and 4th wall-breaking, I'll grant you that.

You mentioned Cortez. His arc had its own problems. Mainly, some really cheesy writing in a couple of parts.

Overall, though, I thought Traynor and Cortez were pretty well done.

I'll agree with the cheesy writing bit, however I felt that Cortez's personal storyline was really well done. He had a lost love interest that was partially vindicated because Shepard took down the Collectors, and then later Shepard revives Cortez's hope for the future. They seemed like really good friends. I can't comment on the Shepard / Cortez romance since I personally have never done it.

Traynor, however, does not have a story arc. She has no personal goal at all. Yet it almost feels like the writers are trying to force you to like her. Literally, the first time you meet her, EDI is like "yo, she's amazing." It's aggravating to have a character forced upon you like that. The only reason I let Diana Allers on the ship is because I almost never have to interact with her.

Also the chess scene infuriates me. At least with Garrus, I can choose whether or not to best him at sniping, but with Traynor, I am forced into losing at chess. Yet another way to show us how brilliant she is. I'm pretty sure a tactician like Shepard would beat her, but I guess I'm just projectin myself onto Shepard here.

Umm.  Once again, I'll agree with you about the writers overdoing it a bit by having EDI talk Traynor up a couple of times.

As far as the chess thing, though, it was part of Traynor's background that she was an exceptional chess player.  There's no reason to think Shepard would stand a chance against her.  Being a great tactician on the battlefield doesn't really translate all that well to playing chess.

[Tritium315]

Guglio08 wrote...


I'm an amateur writer

You should show us, not tell us, that you're an amateur writer. 

[Skullheart]

Tritium315 wrote...

You should show us, not tell us, that you're an amateur writer. 

lol, OP should have seen this coming.

[grey_wind]

My problem with Traynor is more the fact that she makes Liara's entire ascent to Shadow Broker and the arc that dealt with that completely useless.
Everything Traynor does was supposed to have been done by Liara in the original scripts. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense given her status as SB in comparison to Traynor's abilities, which seriously strain my suspension of disbelief.

[Hjelsao]

Uhm... Sanctuary? You know, when the rest of the team lies broken and beaten, without a single idea on where to proceed, she's the one who figures out that Kai Leng has gone to Sanctuary. I'd say that qualifies as significant, and showing, not telling.