188 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtySHISN0]

So this is a complaint about a minor character having an accordingly minor role?

WAT

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Were we having negotations on this, I would agree to this if we could also get rid of James and replace him with someone maybe halfway interesting.

No replacements. I don't have a replacement for Liara. She's simply gone. Her only replacement is someone I can use temporarily on a mission until I get 2 permanent squadmates. (which...really ins't a replacement more like a guest character).

I would approve the same with James though.

Honestly the player should be allowed to solo the game if he/she wants to do it.

I personally refuse to kick anyone off my ship; I want everyone together (and am not terribly happy about having to kill Morinth).

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
I personally refuse to kick anyone off my ship; I want everyone together (and am not terribly happy about having to kill Morinth).

That's your perogative. Me? I'd make liberal use with the GTFO button.

[KingNothing125]

Guglio08 wrote...

Everything about her supposedly amazing abilities are completely absent until she's used to bring missions to our attention. Her two defining moments are Grissom Academy and Horizon

Her amazing abilities are absent until they're not absent anymore? Interesting take, I suppose. A dumb take, but interesting nonetheless. (Also, she finds Jacob and the ex-Cerberus scientists, but we'll let that slide because it's easy to forget Jacob).

Considering she completely overshadows Liara's job as the Shadow Broker, I think you should cut Traynor some slack. Liara's the throwaway character in this game.

[Shamus23]

So your complaint about Traynor is that she doesn't perform as billed?  She's billed as a communication specialist I do believe and several of her convos are tech heavy.  Liara however is basically a spy as the Shadow Broker whose role in the game is to provide an overarching look at how the galaxy responds to the war.  She shows this and fleshes out the expanded universe outside the Alliance and the Normandy.  The one place I will agree she is similar to Liara (circa ME1) is in her initial shock.  She is most certainly not a soldier but a lab tech and it shows in her character.  The two characters are supposed to show similar but different aspects.  But whatever **** the codex and well crafted lore....

[Grimwick]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

So this is a complaint about a minor character having an accordingly minor role?

WAT

It's more of a complaint about how she was written - the fact that EDI made her out to be an intel god when in actual fact EDI shouldn't have to and we should see this without explanation.

It's not really the worst writing in the world but could have been done much better. Though personally I found traynor annoying.

[DMWW]

Demoiselle wrote...

She's not exactly a main charachter - finding Grissom Academy and Horizon were fairy important things, what else do you think they should have shoehorned her charachter into being important for, for no nessecary reason?

Anyways let's put this into context - she finds out a hell of a lot more plot important things than LIARA, THE SHADOW BROKER does.

... other than the plans for the Crucible.

[Guglio08]

Tritium315 wrote...

Except your career path is irrelevent; especially here on the internet where you can't go two feet without running into an amateur this or professional that. If your argument had merit then it would stand on its own two feet and wouldn't require you to flaunt your supposed credentials.

 
Heh. Okay dude, whatever you say.

Tritium315 wrote... 

Additionally, I find it rather humorous that you say your profession makes you uniquely sensistive to tropes and literary deconstructions[.] 

 
I didn't say "uniquely" sensitive, I said that I take it seriously. I enjoy it. It's like a hobby in a way. But it's also a learning opportunity, to see how other people respond to the topic.

Tritium315 wrote...

[A]nd yet through four playthroughs of mass effect 3 the thing you had the biggest issue with was Traynor's informed abilities.

No, my biggest issue (and I have said this on BSN before) is the radical change of Cerberus from morally ambiguous radicals to flat out villains, and whose actions throughout ME3 are very strange. The Illusive Man needs the Crucible to subjugate the Reapers yet does everything he can to sabotage Shepard's building of it. It's obvious that BioWare made Cerberus villains to add human enemies to fight, to break up the non-stop repetitiveness of the Reaper forces. But the story reasons for their change is very poorly done.

Also, yes, the original ending were bad. I liked the EC though. But Traynor bothers me because her problem manifests right at the beginning of the game, and then reminds me every time I talk to her.

KingNothing125 wrote...

Her amazing abilities are absent until they're not absent anymore? Interesting take, I suppose. A dumb take, but interesting nonetheless. (Also, she finds Jacob and the ex-Cerberus scientists, but we'll let that slide because it's easy to forget Jacob.)

 
I was saying that her two defining moments could have easily been EDI moments, and when that's all she has in terms of usefulness, what does that really say about her?

Her finding Grissom Academy, Horizon, and Jacob's thing would have been more cool and in character if we weren't told (in her very first appearance!) that she's amazing at her job and we should keep her around.

Very technically, Grissom Academy was EDI, because Traynor had EDI analyze the fake Turian distress signal.

Modifié par Guglio08, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:19 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Grimwick wrote...

It's more of a complaint about how she was written - the fact that EDI made her out to be an intel god when in actual fact EDI shouldn't have to and we should see this without explanation.

It's not really the worst writing in the world but could have been done much better. Though personally I found traynor annoying.

There are bigger problems with the game.

I tend to ignore problems on this level because unless you romance treynor, she really isn't all that important.

I mean how would you even display her being a tech wizard in game? they can't even show it for tali. It's set in a universe where even the simplest person can work tech and all it is ever shown as is a computer screen or an orange light your arm.

Unless she specifically tells you, as she does currently, i don't think there is anyway to show her supposedly "superior" ability even if she is a super grade A wizard class hacker.

You can argue that cortex gets his flights distinguished, but to be honest it looks as exactly the same as flights nameless cerberus shuttle pilot did in ME2, just with cortez face and voice inserts.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:36 .

[DukeOfNukes]

We're also told Joker is a really good pilot...but we never see him do anything special until he drops the Mako in like a 20 square meter box.

We're also told TIM manages one of the best, covert organizations in the galaxy, but we never see him bossing anyone else around until Kai Leng.

We're told Saren is the best Spectre, but we never see him do anything particularly "soldier" like.

[KingNothing125]

Guglio08 wrote...

I was saying that her two defining moments could have easily been EDI moments, and when that's all she has in terms of usefulness, what does that really say about her?

Her finding Grissom Academy, Horizon, and Jacob's thing would have been more cool and in character if we weren't told (in her very first appearance!) that she's amazing at her job and we should keep her around.

Very technically, Grissom Academy was EDI, because Traynor had EDI analyze the fake Turian distress signal.

Her two defining moments could have easily been Liara moments, or Hackett moments, or whoever-the-fudge the writers chose moments. I don't know what that says about her, but what it says about you is that you're being way too overly critical about someone who isn't even bad at their job.

How does EDI's professional recommendation diminish in any way what Traynor does? How does that make it "less cool" when Traynor "analyzes the crap out of some data"?

And very technically, you're wrong about Grissom, because Traynor initially suspected something was wrong with the Turian signal, and had EDI confirm it.

If you want to irrationally dislike Traynor, go ahead. But quit dressing it up like you know what you're talking about.

[Guglio08]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

You can argue that cortex gets his flights distinguished, but to be honest it looks as exactly the same as flights nameless cerberus shuttle pilot did in ME2, just with cortez face and voice inserts.

Well, do you think that the random Cerberus pilot was also the engineer who fixed th shuttle between missions? I doubt it, because "pilot" and "engineer" are different jobs.

We learn about Cortez's passion and dedication for the shuttle not through him flying, but through him fixing the shuttle, his love of all things space craft, and his ability to divorce his job from his own emotional level.

Traynor could have easily been the same had EDI not praised her skills right after we meet her for the first time. At least for Kelly Chambers, we are told she has a psychology degree, but no one says "Kelly Chambers is an amazing psychologist and we are lucky to have her." We learn this via talking to her.

[Jonathan Sud]

Dat accent though...

[silentassassin264]

So did you not talk to Traynor at all? She is the one that keeps up with all your war asset stuff and those three missions she finds happen to be pretty important as they are all pretty big blows to Cerberus at net you important war assets. Traynor's skill is shown as well as talked about. Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

[DirtySHISN0]

Guglio08 wrote...

Well, do you think that the random Cerberus pilot was also the engineer who fixed th shuttle between missions? I doubt it, because "pilot" and "engineer" are different jobs.

We learn about Cortez's passion and dedication for the shuttle not through him flying, but through him fixing the shuttle, his love of all things space craft, and his ability to divorce his job from his own emotional level.

Traynor could have easily been the same had EDI not praised her skills right after we meet her for the first time. At least for Kelly Chambers, we are told she has a psychology degree, but no one says "Kelly Chambers is an amazing psychologist and we are lucky to have her." We learn this via talking to her.

I already said it would be hard to display superior tech ability and distinguish it from "regular" tech ability. What more do you want.

If you're going to argue she doesnt develop that isn't true, it's just less blatent than other characters. Treynor learns she has value beyind being hidden away in a lab.

Plus you only learn that about cortez if his conversation is interesting enough to maintain your interest throughout the game. Unfortunatley for treynor, cortez and james it was not. So i ended up ignoring them every playthrough after my first.

[Guglio08]

KingNothing125 wrote...

I don't know what that says about her, but what it says about you is that you're being way too overly critical about someone who isn't even bad at their job.

 
I'm  being critical of a poorly implemented character. I like Traynor's personality but her role is utterly worthless. She has no character arc or personal goal. She has a "fish out of water" story but it goes nowhere.

KingNothing125 wrote... 

How does EDI's professional recommendation diminish in any way what Traynor does? How does that make it "less cool" when Traynor "analyzes the crap out of some data"?

 
It diminishes her actual abilities because we're told ahead of time, before we see her do anything, that she's amazing. Imagine if she did everything she did without EDI's glowing approval. I would have thought, damn, that's a good technical analyst. 

KingNothing125 wrote... 

And very technically, you're wrong about Grissom, because Traynor initially suspected something was wrong with the Turian signal, and had EDI confirm it.

 
Without EDI confirming anything, it would have fizzled out. 

KingNothing125 wrote...  

If you want to irrationally dislike Traynor, go ahead. But quit dressing it up like you know what you're talking about.

You're free to disagree, but it's not irrational. It's the complete opposite, in fact.

silentassassin264 wrote...

Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

 
Yes. I have explained my position many times. We are told she's amazing before we see  her do anything. Thus, everything she does diminishes her character because we had to be told that she's an asset rather than discovering it for ourselves.

Modifié par Guglio08, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:46 .

[spirosz]

She does a better job of informing Shepard of danger/information in general, compared to Liara finding Shepard's socks.

I'm thinking she should of been the Shadow Broker or Miranda, not even blaming Liara because it's the writers fault for portraying her in such a way.

[Naugi]

Too picky OP, too picky.

[AlexMBrennan]

Right, the writing is a little bit off in places in ME3. You're just getting that now?

[Stump01]

Traynor does have a very important role in ME3, she keeps FemShep's back clean.  And the sides.  And the front...

[Apathy1989]

Random Jerkface wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

meh, she's just Liara from ME1 reused since Liara seems completely different every game

This, every part of it x1000.

Well I usually play male shep, so it was refreshing to have a ME1 Liara clone that didn't hit on me constantly. For that reason alone, thank you bioware for making her a lesbian.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Unless she takes some time to learn (or "assimilate information"), EDI can't perform Traynor's job as well. EDI's specialty is cyberwarfare, Traynor's is intel gathering. The two are distinct and very different. I didn't have any problems with Traynor.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .