188 réponses à ce sujet

[tomcplotts]

sth128 wrote...

Guglio08 wrote...

"show, don't tell."

lol  oh man, this made today's visit entirely worth it. thanks!

[Darc_Requiem]

Javik, the best thing about ME3.

[ForThessia]

jreezy wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Toothbrush. Freaking toothbrush.

Way to add to the story.

Please tell me that's not your problem with her character.

how dare she have thoughts that dont involve reapers,death,earth etc

[felipejiraya]

I wanted to disagree with OP but yeah, he has a good point.

[Ryzaki]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Javik, the best thing about ME3.

Agreed.

[Barquiel]

ForThessia wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Toothbrush. Freaking toothbrush.

Way to add to the story.

Please tell me that's not your problem with her character.

how dare she have thoughts that dont involve reapers,death,earth etc

I would totally buy Traynor a toothbrush

[Whatshisnameagain]

While I don't think Traynor is as bad of a character as the op makes her to be...However, I do think that she's incredibly annoying.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I WALK BY:

"Commander, I found something..."

or

"You have a new message at your...."

Fuuuu...the usage of the mute button increased 10 fold because of her.

Modifié par Whatshisnameagain, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:09 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Guglio08 wrote...

 I'm an amateur writer,

No...

[Darc_Requiem]

I never found Traynor annoying. She was the best information broker on the ship.

[Tritium315]

Guglio08 wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

Except your career path is irrelevent; especially here on the internet where you can't go two feet without running into an amateur this or professional that. If your argument had merit then it would stand on its own two feet and wouldn't require you to flaunt your supposed credentials.

 
Heh. Okay dude, whatever you say.

That's some quality writing; I can't wait to read the stories you've written.

Guglio08 wrote...

Tritium315 wrote... 

Additionally, I find it rather humorous that you say your profession makes you uniquely sensistive to tropes and literary deconstructions[.] 

 
I didn't say "uniquely" sensitive, I said that I take it seriously. I enjoy it. It's like a hobby in a way. But it's also a learning opportunity, to see how other people respond to the topic.

Tritium315 wrote...

[A]nd yet through four playthroughs of mass effect 3 the thing you had the biggest issue with was Traynor's informed abilities.

No, my biggest issue (and I have said this on BSN before) is the radical change of Cerberus from morally ambiguous radicals to flat out villains, and whose actions throughout ME3 are very strange. The Illusive Man needs the Crucible to subjugate the Reapers yet does everything he can to sabotage Shepard's building of it. It's obvious that BioWare made Cerberus villains to add human enemies to fight, to break up the non-stop repetitiveness of the Reaper forces. But the story reasons for their change is very poorly done.

Also, yes, the original ending were bad. I liked the EC though. But Traynor bothers me because her problem manifests right at the beginning of the game, and then reminds me every time I talk to her.

As opposed to the enormouse MacGuffin that is the crucible which permeats every single aspect of the story right from the very beginning. Yea, it's definitely the minor character with the equally minor role that just rips you out of the experience. She has two instances where she shows her intelligence (three if you count the time she beats Shepard at chess), and that seems like plenty for a bit character.

[sth128]

Are we sure she's talking about a toothbrush? Maybe it's not her gum she's messaging...

(hey, world's coming to an end, ya gotta relief the stress somehow)

[Guglio08]

Tritium315 wrote...

As opposed to the enormouse MacGuffin that is the crucible which permeats every single aspect of the story right from the very beginning. Yea, it's definitely the minor character with the equally minor role that just rips you out of the experience. She has two instances where she shows her intelligence (three if you count the time she beats Shepard at chess), and that seems like plenty for a bit character.

What, exactly, is your argument?

Yes, the Crucible is a massive plot device. But, so what? How does that impact Traynor's character in any meaningful way? Is your argument that the Crucible is so bad that people can't discuss anything else about the story?

And, in a game that is arguably more about people than anything else, are you saying that I'm not supposed to be upset over the (in my opinion) awful corruption of Cerberus into flat out villains instead of the Crucible?

Like, you can criticize me if you want to. I don't care. But I'm having trouble figuring out what your argumentative position is. You seem to be attacking me more than my points.

[Conniving_Eagle]

She's an okay character, I can't stand her voice though. I can't say I would be too sad if she died either, like I would if Cortez did.

[D24O]

sth128 wrote...

Are we sure she's talking about a toothbrush? Maybe it's not her gum she's messaging...

(hey, world's coming to an end, ya gotta relief the stress somehow)

Well itn that case it might be a worthwile investment for femshep.

[Tritium315]

Guglio08 wrote...

Tritium315 wrote...

As opposed to the enormouse MacGuffin that is the crucible which permeats every single aspect of the story right from the very beginning. Yea, it's definitely the minor character with the equally minor role that just rips you out of the experience. She has two instances where she shows her intelligence (three if you count the time she beats Shepard at chess), and that seems like plenty for a bit character.

What, exactly, is your argument?

Yes, the Crucible is a massive plot device. But, so what? How does that impact Traynor's character in any meaningful way? Is your argument that the Crucible is so bad that people can't discuss anything else about the story?

And, in a game that is arguably more about people than anything else, are you saying that I'm not supposed to be upset over the (in my opinion) awful corruption of Cerberus into flat out villains instead of the Crucible?

Like, you can criticize me if you want to. I don't care. But I'm having trouble figuring out what your argumentative position is. You seem to be attacking me more than my points.

I'm attacking both. The reason I'm attacking you is because I hate people that flaunt their creditionals instead of, or even in addition to, making actual arguments and I was using the crucible to point out that there are things in this story that are way more ****ed up than traynor or cerberus, and that someone who apparently cares so much about tropes and literary devices would be more worried about that. Although, in retrospect, I probably was a bit overly harsh; so that's my bad.

As for Cerberus; I agree with you. They were turned from a relatively small group (didn't EDI say they had something like 150 members?) of well intentioned extremists into an omnicidal force capable of fielding armies bigger than most galactic governments. Where they got the troops is sorta explained (although I still doubt that many people came to sanctuary), but that stills begs the question of a) why they turned so evil, and where they got the money to outfit all those people in state of the art armor and weapons.

Modifié par Tritium315, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[Silpheed58]

Shes no Kelly Chambers that's for sure.

Modifié par Silpheed58, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:29 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Silpheed58 wrote...

Shes no Kelly Chambers that's for sure.

She's not the same 'People person.' I liked the fact that Kelly was a psychologist, too. But it wasn't very cool of her to tattle us to TIM.

[Silpheed58]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Silpheed58 wrote...

Shes no Kelly Chambers that's for sure.

She's not the same 'People person.' I liked the fact that Kelly was a psychologist, too. But it wasn't very cool of her to tattle us to TIM.

It just took some longer to see TIM for what he was for some than others.  She thought she was helping you.

[Pelleoan]

I always thought that liara passed what ever info she had up to traynor and traynor dug through it and came up with all the "we need to go hear" things.

[nhcre8tv1]

Ryzaki wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Javik, the best thing about ME3.

Agreed.

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[Blue Gloves]

Tritium315 wrote...



I'm attacking both. The reason I'm attacking you is because I hate people that flaunt their creditionals instead of, or even in addition to, making actual arguments and I was using the crucible to point out that there are things in this story that are way more ****ed up than traynor or cerberus, and that someone who apparently cares so much about tropes and literary devices would be more worried about that. Although, in retrospect, I probably was a bit overly harsh; so that's my bad.

Dude- yeah, that is your bad.  OP wasn't like "I am a writer, therefor I am the God of Prose and the rest of you mere mortals must bow before my knowledgE!  MWAUHAHAHAHAHA!"  Posters that use their RL professions to imply things like that ARE douches- but calm down brah!  Have a drink, we're all friends here. The OP seemed to just be giving us the hobby/ profession info to provide a background for why s/he feels the ways/he does. 

Now that said, I disagree w/ OP smewhat- I think there almost has to be a small degree of telling mixed into the "show don't tell" rule in alot of visual and interactive media.  Sure, Bioware could've scrapped EDI's initial bit and put in a couple more scenes where Traynor shows off a little exceptional intelligence to develop her character arc, but at what cost?  I'd much rather see the continuing development of the returning/ major characters that I'm already invested in, and as the devs have said repeatedly, there are only so many resources to go around.  This isn't a book, and history has proven that the average individual can only track so many character developments in a meaningful way and still be interested in the overall story anyway.  This is a video game, and it's the third one in the series at that- keeping the new characters to minor roles was a smart way to go IMO.

[Conquerthecity]

I agree with OP.

Telling and not really showing is also a problem with James. We are consistently just told how he's such an amazing soldier, but I don't see it. Sure, he's effective as a squadmate, but everyone else is too, and there's nothing that sets him apart.

[DarkRPG]

TAYLOR IS POORLY WRITTEN AND HERE IS WHY:

She showers with her underwear on. The chick is bat sh!t crazy.