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Specialist Taynor... Ugh


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#176
N-Seven

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Guglio08 wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

You can argue that cortex gets his flights distinguished, but to be honest it looks as exactly the same as flights nameless cerberus shuttle pilot did in ME2, just with cortez face and voice inserts.

Well, do you think that the random Cerberus pilot was also the engineer who fixed th shuttle between missions? I doubt it, because "pilot" and "engineer" are different jobs.

We learn about Cortez's passion and dedication for the shuttle not through him flying, but through him fixing the shuttle, his love of all things space craft, and his ability to divorce his job from his own emotional level.

Traynor could have easily been the same had EDI not praised her skills right after we meet her for the first time. At least for Kelly Chambers, we are told she has a psychology degree, but no one says "Kelly Chambers is an amazing psychologist and we are lucky to have her." We learn this via talking to her.


I don't recall anything special about  his 'fixing the shuttle' scenes as far as I can remember.  Do we even see him fix it?   I mean it's difficult work that's just implied, the same way that the difficult work that Traynor does is implied.   And any of his blather about how much he loves spacecraft is at about the same level as Traynor talking about how much of a geek she.

Cortez has the character hook of being recently widowed, and I think that's probably the only thing that tips the 'he's so much more interesting' scale in his favor.  If we hang a personal tragedy on every minor character, yeah then suddenly they all become more interesting.   You remove that and he's actually pretty boring and Traynor becomes the slightly more interesting character.   In any case, I actually don't think it's wrong that Traynor is for the most part just an ordinary, albeit very smart, woman.   If you find her flat and boring...well, there's 'flat and boring', ordinary people all around the world falling in love with each other.  There's nothing really wrong with Traynor.  I think with the fact that she's just a minor character, having others just 'telling you' she's great, is fine.  We don't really need it to be shoved in our face with a large number of scenes showing her doing backflips with her abilities or anything.  At least I don't.

On that note, Traynor beating you at chess, I thought was actually a nice little surprise.   Being a fine military tactician, or soldier, doesn't necessarily mean you're great at game theory: I'm not in the military, but I smoke my military and RCMP buds in traditional and non-traditional board games all the time.   Not to brag, it's just simple that I play more games than them and have been playing chess since I was a kid.  So I don't agree that Shepard should be beating Traynor, the 'automatic loss' is just nitpicking, and it's not as if they're going to build a chess sim into the game.

I'd also like to point out that Shepard him/herself doesn't really display any fine tactical/strategic ability throughout the series; mostly he's a just an incredible combatant because we control him and the game is easy.  We are 'told' that he might be a fine strategist through whichever pre-history you selected on creating him (i.e. war hero, ruthless, survivor, etc.).   But this too is a case of 'told not shown'.   Like Traynor, it doesn't bother me.

Modifié par N-Seven, 06 juillet 2012 - 05:34 .


#177
4stringwizard

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I gotta disagree with the OP. I thought Traynor was a pretty decent character, especially given her limited role. Cortez I thought was the more shallow of the two. The only thing I ever gathered talking to him was that he had a husband.

#178
rubynorman

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It's just that the shower scene seems really weird IMO. I don't know, too quick to get FShep on bed?
I like Cortez romance a little more. Too bad he's only available for MShep.

#179
RenegonSQ

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Why is this thread so long? Traynor is just kinda... there to me. I don't love her, I dont hate her, she's just there, living and breathing.

#180
GloryToChaos

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^^^ I gotta agree, why go human at all?

#181
Guglio08

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Tritium315 wrote...

The reason I'm attacking you is because I hate people that flaunt their creditionals instead of, or even in addition to, making actual arguments[.] 

Okay, but I don't have any credentials. I haven't published anything (mostly because I'm slow and a perfectionist). I put that there so people would know the angle that I'm coming from.

Tritium315 wrote... 

[A]nd I was using the crucible to point out that there are things in this story that are way more ****ed up than traynor or cerberus, and that someone who apparently cares so much about tropes and literary devices would be more worried about that.

 
There's already a million threads about the Crucible, the Catalyst, and the endings. There is nothing I can say about them that hasn't already been said.

Tritium315 wrote...  

As for Cerberus; I agree with you. They were turned from a relatively small group (didn't EDI say they had something like 150 members?) of well intentioned extremists into an omnicidal force capable of fielding armies bigger than most galactic governments. Where they got the troops is sorta explained (although I still doubt that many people came to sanctuary), but that stills begs the question of a) why they turned so evil, and B) where they got the money to outfit all those people in state of the art armor and weapons.

There's also a strange timeline issue in regards to the Cerberus army. 

The Reapers attack Earth, which begins the war, so Shepard immediately heads to Mars. He encounters Cerberus troops there, which we learn are probably from Sanctuary. However, Sanctuary could only have been set up after the Reaper attack, so there's no way the troops came from Sanctuary. In fact, the number of soldiers you fight all the way up until Sur'Kesh is impossible in the story, since Sanctuary would have to have been active long before the Reaper invasion to get that many people... and people went to Sanctuary to escape the war...

#182
Tritium315

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Guglio08 wrote...


Tritium315 wrote...  

As for Cerberus; I agree with you. They were turned from a relatively small group (didn't EDI say they had something like 150 members?) of well intentioned extremists into an omnicidal force capable of fielding armies bigger than most galactic governments. Where they got the troops is sorta explained (although I still doubt that many people came to sanctuary), but that stills begs the question of a) why they turned so evil, and B) where they got the money to outfit all those people in state of the art armor and weapons.

There's also a strange timeline issue in regards to the Cerberus army. 

The Reapers attack Earth, which begins the war, so Shepard immediately heads to Mars. He encounters Cerberus troops there, which we learn are probably from Sanctuary. However, Sanctuary could only have been set up after the Reaper attack, so there's no way the troops came from Sanctuary. In fact, the number of soldiers you fight all the way up until Sur'Kesh is impossible in the story, since Sanctuary would have to have been active long before the Reaper invasion to get that many people... and people went to Sanctuary to escape the war...


It's starts even before that. The scope of Cerberus that you see in the Invasion comic is quite a bit larger than what you were told about in ME2, and that was a decent length of time before the Reaper invasion on Earth.

*glances at the comic*

"From the lead writer of the blockbuster Bioware video game Mass Effect 3"

Oh.

#183
nikki191

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Guglio08 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I hear what you're saying with thing about "telling now showing." Thing is, I think they"showed" enough. EDI's expository comments about Samantha's wonderfulness did feel a little forced and 4th wall-breaking, I'll grant you that.

You mentioned Cortez. His arc had its own problems. Mainly, some really cheesy writing in a couple of parts.

Overall, though, I thought Traynor and Cortez were pretty well done.

I'll agree with the cheesy writing bit, however I felt that Cortez's personal storyline was really well done. He had a lost love interest that was partially vindicated because Shepard took down the Collectors, and then later Shepard revives Cortez's hope for the future. They seemed like really good friends. I can't comment on the Shepard / Cortez romance since I personally have never done it.

Traynor, however, does not have a story arc. She has no personal goal at all. Yet it almost feels like the writers are trying to force you to like her. Literally, the first time you meet her, EDI is like "yo, she's amazing." It's aggravating to have a character forced upon you like that. The only reason I let Diana Allers on the ship is because I almost never have to interact with her.

Also the chess scene infuriates me. At least with Garrus, I can choose whether or not to best him at sniping, but with Traynor, I am forced into losing at chess. Yet another way to show us how brilliant she is. I'm pretty sure a tactician like Shepard would beat her, but I guess I'm just projectin myself onto Shepard here.


didnt you get the memo ? shepard plays chess like she dances :D

#184
chidingewe8036

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Treynor, Vega, and Chobot or whatever her name is were stupid characters and pointless Cortez was cool just becuase he put a face on who or what flew the damn shuttles to each destination but the others were just fillers.

#185
MrDavid

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See my avatar? That's will become of you OP if you continue down this path. Besides, aren't there any reporters you could whine about? You know, the one that happens to be voiced by an employee of a gaming website? Just sayin'.

#186
Kathleen321

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I wish Traynor could have been a decent romance. Instead she is the worst case of u-haul lesbian. All you have to do is ask her for one shower on your first date and she wants to move in with you. Avoid those u-haul lesbians. Those are the worst kind. -Couldn't there have been a little character development before the sex?

#187
Random Geth

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Kathleen321 wrote...

I wish Traynor could have been a decent romance. Instead she is the worst case of u-haul lesbian. All you have to do is ask her for one shower on your first date and she wants to move in with you. Avoid those u-haul lesbians. Those are the worst kind. -Couldn't there have been a little character development before the sex?


Sorry, not enough room for it after they packed in all the Artistic Integrity.

#188
sUiCiDeKiNgS13

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Air lock Traynor. Vega can be my secretary. Kicking info out of computers and stuff.

#189
sth128

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DarkRPG wrote...

TAYLOR IS POORLY WRITTEN AND HERE IS WHY:

She showers with her underwear on. The chick is bat sh!t crazy. :P

Nah she was just rolled with the "Never Nude" trait.

(That's a Sims 3 reference)