1081 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

Not only is it what the Reapers want. But think about this. Really think about this. The people who designed/added to the Crucible wouldn't be thinking "We need to merge with synthetics for greater understanding/final evolution of life/blah blah blah!". They'd be thinking "Oh my god those giant metal cuttlefish are going to kill us, we need to build something to stop them."
I really have to wonder what kind of mentality would see giant metal killbots and think "You know what would be a good idea? Merging our bodies with them!".

[Heeden]

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Agree, that's why I will never choose it, it's a complete disgrace and evil to the Mass Effect universe. Have you seen what it does to EDI, that was not EDI talking in the synthesis ending, that was...something else.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

Understanding one's enemies is all well and good if they're not trying to EXTERMINATE you.
Nor would any organic be in a position to assume this would be a good thing for them, since the Reapers are already performing a form of synthesis on their victims.

[wantedman dan]

"The weaknesses of neither, the strengths of both." -- Saren, an indoctrinated tool of the Reapers.

It's been what they've wanted since the beginning. But, since you get rainbows, unicorns, and smiling puppy-dogs, it's obviously the best. /sarcasm

[CrutchCricket]

I don't think the crucible had those options built in. I think it loosened the shackles of the holokid enough to allow it to come up with them on its own.

Obviously it really wants you to pick synthesis. Bull**** logic aside, ultimately that's the only way it survives. Destroy is self explanatory, control it gets erased (and I get all its stuff, so hah!) and refuse just delays its downfall (though I guess it wouldn't know that). But in synthesis it survives and you're its best friend! Yay!

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:45 .

[zambot]

Of course the reapers what Shep to pick Synthesis. It is the only option which they are freed from control of the Catalyst and survive. I wonder if many reapers would rather you pick Destroy over Control. But just because reapers want to be freed from the cycle doesn't make synthesis "evil".

[Billyg3453]

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

This is officially the second worst argument I've ever heard in favor of Synthesis. Well done!

[Welsh Inferno]

Stopped reading when

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact,

[iAFKinMassEffect3]

Why are you telling us stuff we already know?

[Baronesa]

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

I would generally agree...  but that is not always possible... and when a full ancient race of mechanical eldritch abominations is hellbent on destroy you, without capitulation possible... then there is no room for understanding.

[PsyrenY]

It sounds as though you're saying the Reapers themselves implanted that function into the Crucible.

But if that's the case, why would they try to stamp out all records of the superweapon? If Synthesis is their goal, why try to stop the Crucible from being built? If the finished product is capable of Synthesis, why present the other options at all (let alone first), and if it is not capable of Synthesis, why not SO BE IT the moment Shepard installs it?


My personal theory is that the device was actually designed for Synthesis from the very beginning. Remember that Starkid's creators DID believe the hostile synthetics hypothesis, as the whole reason behind his creation was to ensure that relations between the two camps didn't sour. I believe it was subsequent cycles who dug up the plans and decided to repurpose the giant battery towards Destroy or Control later.

The first race to begin the design wasn't able (for whatever reason - perhaps the Crucible was very unrefined at that point) to achieve Synthesis. And they got Reaped before they could work out the wrinkles. Leading subsequent races to do exactly what you said - "Oh my god these cuttlefish are trying to kill us," etc.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:48 .

[The Angry One]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Stopped reading when

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact,

Are you going to deny this too, even though it's said in the game?
Of course you will, if only to be contrary, yes?

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Understanding one's enemies is all well and good if they're not trying to EXTERMINATE you.
Nor would any organic be in a position to assume this would be a good thing for them, since the Reapers are already performing a form of synthesis on their victims.

The whole point of understanding your enemies is to find ways to stop them trying to exterminate you. Killing everyone first then trying to figure them out seems wasteful at the least, despicable at most.

I like the way you assume that trillions upon trillions of organics across millions (billions?) of years never thought that a peaceful compromise was the best way forward.

[Xellith]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

This is officially the second worst argument I've ever heard in favor of Synthesis. Well done!

What was the first?

[The Angry One]

Optimystic_X wrote...

It sounds as though you're saying the Reapers themselves implanted that function into the Crucible.

But if that's the case, why would they try to stamp out all records of the superweapon? If Synthesis is their goal, why try to stop the Crucible from being built? If the finished product is capable of Synthesis, why present the other options at all (let alone first), and if it is not capable of Synthesis, why not SO BE IT the moment Shepard installs it?


My personal theory is that the device was actually designed for Synthesis from the very beginning. Remember that Starkid's creators DID believe the hostile synthetics hypothesis, as the whole reason behind his creation was to ensure that relations between the two camps didn't sour. I believe it was subsequent cycles who dug up the plans and decided to repurpose the giant battery towards Destroy or Control later.

Actually I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the whole idea for the origin of the Crucible as presented by BioWare is flat out absurd. It's functions make little sense in that context.

[savionen]

Baronesa wrote...

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

I would generally agree...  but that is not always possible... and when a full ancient race of mechanical eldritch abominations is hellbent on destroy you, without capitulation possible... then there is no room for understanding.

Also everytime you actually talk to one of them they compare you to insects. Assuming understanding would lead to peace is the same thing as assuming that negotating with Sovereign would work...

Modifié par savionen, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .

[Billyg3453]

Xellith wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

This is officially the second worst argument I've ever heard in favor of Synthesis. Well done!

What was the first?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12966761/2#12967189

[wantedman dan]

Heeden wrote...

The whole point of understanding your enemies is to find ways to stop them trying to exterminate you. Killing everyone first then trying to figure them out seems wasteful at the least, despicable at most.

I like the way you assume that trillions upon trillions of organics across millions (billions?) of years never thought that a peaceful compromise was the best way forward.

We understand them. They think we're chaos and better off removed from existence. What else do you want to know about them?

Harbinger's favorite color?

[Heeden]

Baronesa wrote...

I would generally agree...  but that is not always possible... and when a full ancient race of mechanical eldritch abominations is hellbent on destroy you, without capitulation possible... then there is no room for understanding.

Clearly you missed the part where there is...

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The whole point of understanding your enemies is to find ways to stop them trying to exterminate you. Killing everyone first then trying to figure them out seems wasteful at the least, despicable at most.

Will you stop trying to apply the morality of normal conflict to the Reapers?
When a being declares you nothing but a pest to be exterminated, you're not going to waste time coming to an "understanding".

I like the way you assume that trillions upon trillions of organics across millions (billions?) of years never thought that a peaceful compromise was the best way forward.

Setting aside the fact that synthesis is total submission, not compromise, I'm sure many tried to appease the Reapers. And failed. Because Reapers do not negociate.

Heeden wrote...

Clearly you missed the part where there is...

There is NO understanding. Synthesis is total capitulation. We change to suit them.

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 juillet 2012 - 04:50 .

[CrutchCricket]

The Angry One wrote...
Actually I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the whole idea for the origin of the Crucible as presented by BioWare is flat out absurd. It's functions make little sense in that context.

It doesn't have to be, if you look at it as something that's supposed to **** with the holokid. Perhaps the original intention was to cause it to glitch/freeze and it was thought that this would make the Reapers derp out and thus easier to take out.

[Billyg3453]

Heeden wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

I would generally agree...  but that is not always possible... and when a full ancient race of mechanical eldritch abominations is hellbent on destroy you, without capitulation possible... then there is no room for understanding.

Clearly you missed the part where there is...

Where's that? When every Reaper you've ever spoken with said we can't understand and our extincition is inevitable?

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

Actually I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the whole idea for the origin of the Crucible as presented by BioWare is flat out absurd. It's functions make little sense in that context.

Again, its functions only don't make sense if you assume that it was designed for Destroy or Control first, then some crazy person tacked on Synthesis afterward when he should have only been thinking of victory/survival.

But since that is not the only possible explanation, your premise falls flat.

A third explanation: recall that our cycle can have synthetics work on the crucible too. We aren't the first cycle to have a synthetic race fight the Reapers. (100% fact - Starkid says this himself.) But if machines see Synthesis as logical/desirable, they would have been glad to build that function into the Crucible, possibly even without the organics they were working with realizing they did so.

[Baronesa]

Heeden wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

I would generally agree...  but that is not always possible... and when a full ancient race of mechanical eldritch abominations is hellbent on destroy you, without capitulation possible... then there is no room for understanding.

Clearly you missed the part where there is...

Synthesis is not understanding.. is bowing down to their wishes and fullfill their ideal solution... sure it would break the cycle... BECAUSE EVERYONE WOULD BE REAPERIZED!