Allan Schumacher wrote...
I agree. It's why I picked Destroy. The fact that I could reconcile the Geth and Quarians was all the proof I needed that the Catalyst's assertions were false.
Allan Schumacher wrote...
I probably shouldn't get too involved, but just one more response won't hurt right?wantedman dan wrote...
Which was proven to be completely false by their willingness to destroy it, only moments before. If the true intention was to preserve organic life, would the Catalyst have allowed Harbinger to eradicate those running down to the beam?
Of course not.
Of course the Catalyst would. Any threat to achieving its objective would be dealt with. The loss of a few lives is inconsequential to it. You're thinking on far too much of a microlevel. To have the goal of preserving organics does NOT require them to preserve every single organic lifeform.
If your goal is to stop more loss of life in a war, and some belligerent people with violent opposition towards that goal come at you and you end up killing them, it doesn't undermine your overall goal.Preservation of organics by not having synthetics destroy them.
All organics are not being killed. Your point is invalid. No one, not even the Catalyst, has stated that the goal is to preserve 100% of all organic life forms, even the ones that are belligerently resisting through violent means and present a threat to achieving the overall objective. The fact that the Catalyst is killing some organic (and synthetic in the case of the Geth) life doesn't undermine the overall objective.And appealing to the probability that they will do so as a definite circumstance is wrong.
I agree. It's why I picked Destroy. The fact that I could reconcile the Geth and Quarians was all the proof I needed that the Catalyst's assertions were false.
ghost9191 wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
ghost9191 wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Took the words out of my mouth.wantedman dan wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
You physically changed people without their consent but you didn't brainwash them. You changed them physically that is all, you didn't change who they are, you didn't take away their free will or their memories. You changed their dna. It really isn't much different than what the lazarus project did to shepard.
That's why everyone is so tickled to death to accept the Reapers, despite the atrocities they committed only moments before, right?
ok i get your opinion and what not but how in the hell is synthesis even remotely like what lazarus project did to shep?
It physically changed shepard and made him partly synthetic with cybernetic implants. This becomes very apparent if you play as renegade Shepard in ME 2 and ME 3. The catalyst even mentions how shepard is partly synthetic when he is presenting shepard with the different choices. That may be one reason why synthesis becomes a viable option since it is Shepard who is both organic and synthetic who is jumping into the beam.
yes but it doesn't change his dna, it just uses implants on him, to help restore his skin and what not , i just mean it doesn't change who he is, or what he is . just replaces some parts with cybernetics
Guest_Fandango_*
silentassassin264 wrote...
The Reapers want synthesis and I have no problem with that. They end up happy and not omnicidal and my Shep ended up happy that they were all saved (before she dissolved into her "energy"). Win-win if you ask me.
Cutlass Jack wrote...
Allan Schumacher wrote...
I agree. It's why I picked Destroy. The fact that I could reconcile the Geth and Quarians was all the proof I needed that the Catalyst's assertions were false.
Just to play devil's advocate, the fact you then destroyed the Geth kind of proves the Catalyst right.
Yes, absolutely.Allan Schumacher wrote...
I was a fan even with the original endings.Fiery Phoenix wrote...
You seem to be the first BioWare employee who remotely likes Destroy, Allan. It's a nice change of pace.
Sucked to kill the Geth (though it was less certain in the original ending), but ultimately freeing the galaxy from Reaper influence is what my Shep wanted to do.
Fiery Phoenix wrote...
You seem to be the first BioWare employee who remotely likes Destroy, Allan. It's a nice change of pace.
RiouHotaru wrote...
The Reapers desire to save organic life by uploading their consciousness into a Reaper Shell to prevent it from being forever lost due to annihilation by a synthetic race. It was the only solution the Catalyst AND it's creators could come with at the time, because the one thing that would end the conflict entirely (Synthesis) wasn't possible.
The Catalyst's goal of ending the conflict via Synthesis is made possible via Shepard and the introduction of the Crucible, which allows him to give his previously impossible ideal solution the ability to manifest.
I remember Mordin and EDI and Legion. They are all referring to the REAPER solution to the problem, not the Synthesis solution. The Synthesis solution was deemed impossible by the Catalyst itself at the time anyway.
You're equating the "Turn organic civilizations into Reapers" as being the same as Synthesis.
It's not.
The geth had came in contact and under the control of the Reapers before and they disagreed with it, why would they agree now? And I don't understand what your trying to say, your logic is almost as bad as the Catalyst.KotorEffect3 wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Then explain to me why EDI is so happy to work with the Reapers when she told me a few hours earlier she would rather die, than to co-exist with them. Also, the Geth, Like Legion who specifically hated the Reapers because they wanted to create their own future instead of one that would deal to co-exist the reapers. And no, it's not one slide, its various cutscenes/slides to show how organics/synthetics are co-existing with the Reapers, it was purposely put into the game to send that message, if Bioware intended to put another message, they wouldn't have put all those scenes.KotorEffect3 wrote...
wantedman dan wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
You physically changed people without their consent but you didn't brainwash them. You changed them physically that is all, you didn't change who they are, you didn't take away their free will or their memories. You changed their dna. It really isn't much different than what the lazarus project did to shepard.
That's why everyone is so tickled to death to accept the Reapers, despite the atrocities they committed only moments before, right?
Once again you are basing that off of one epilogue slide. It isn't about whether or not people are happy to have the reapers around. It is irrelevant. Just because the epilogue doesn't show some crazy person doing a suicide run on a destroyer doesn't mean it may not happen. The only function of that particular epilogue slide was to show how the reapers themselves have a different role than they had before.
Perspectives change, nobody knew what the reapers true function was until Shepard met up with the catalyst and when the synthesis energy blast hit everybody they probably gained an understanding of what the reapers function was thus making the reapers function as reapers obsolete. Remember reapers is just a nickname that organics gave them not necessarily what the reapers themselves think of themselves as.
Allan Schumacher wrote...
I probably shouldn't get too involved, but just one more response won't hurt right?
Of course the Catalyst would. Any threat to achieving its objective would be dealt with. The loss of a few lives is inconsequential to it. You're thinking on far too much of a microlevel. To have the goal of preserving organics does NOT require them to preserve every single organic lifeform.
If your goal is to stop more loss of life in a war, and some belligerent people with violent opposition towards that goal come at you and you end up killing them, it doesn't undermine your overall goal.
Preservation of organics by not having synthetics destroy them.
All organics are not being killed. Your point is invalid. No one, not even the Catalyst, has stated that the goal is to preserve 100% of all organic life forms, even the ones that are belligerently resisting through violent means and present a threat to achieving the overall objective. The fact that the Catalyst is killing some organic (and synthetic in the case of the Geth) life doesn't undermine the overall objective.
I agree. It's why I picked Destroy. The fact that I could reconcile the Geth and Quarians was all the proof I needed that the Catalyst's assertions were false.
To be fair, why are we treating the Catalyst as reliable on this?That is NOT the solution it's creators wanted.
Which part of "They did not approve." escapes you?
Well... Javik talks about how the same synthetic conflict happened in his own cycle, and how patterns of the cycles tend to repeat. He may have mentioned synthetic conflicts from earlier cycles, or it may be just his own bigotry, I'm not sure.According to it's assumptions and it's views which are not backed up by ANYTHING in the entirety of Mass Effect.
There's only one problem in this scenario. The Reapers.
zambot wrote...
I must assume no such thing. I'm saying that if such a magic exists to create synthetic dna and instantly disperse it throughout the galaxy, magically achieving ultimate knowledge and understanding, then anything is possible, including accepting that peace and harmony breaks out with celebratory rainbow fireworks.
The Angry One wrote...
That is NOT the solution it's creators wanted.
Which part of "They did not approve." escapes you?
Yes, it is. It's simply a different method to achieve the same result. Homogenity. Forced unity.
Xilizhra wrote...
To be fair, why are we treating the Catalyst as reliable on this?That is NOT the solution it's creators wanted.
Which part of "They did not approve." escapes you?Well... Javik talks about how the same synthetic conflict happened in his own cycle, and how patterns of the cycles tend to repeat. He may have mentioned synthetic conflicts from earlier cycles, or it may be just his own bigotry, I'm not sure.According to it's assumptions and it's views which are not backed up by ANYTHING in the entirety of Mass Effect.
There's only one problem in this scenario. The Reapers.
No one universally agrees on any one ending, but my observation has been Synthesis is the preferred ending among the devs.RiouHotaru wrote...
...Really? I've yet to see any other Employees that universally agree on one ending. I'm pretty sure you'll find they have a wide variety of opinions on which they prefer.Fiery Phoenix wrote...
You seem to be the first BioWare employee who remotely likes Destroy, Allan. It's a nice change of pace.
wantedman dan wrote...
zambot wrote...
I must assume no such thing. I'm saying that if such a magic exists to create synthetic dna and instantly disperse it throughout the galaxy, magically achieving ultimate knowledge and understanding, then anything is possible, including accepting that peace and harmony breaks out with celebratory rainbow fireworks.
That magically and forcefully changes everyone's opinion?
That defines brainwashing, almost verbatim.
Fiery Phoenix wrote...
No one universally agrees on any one ending, but my observation has been Synthesis is the preferred ending among the devs.RiouHotaru wrote...
...Really? I've yet to see any other Employees that universally agree on one ending. I'm pretty sure you'll find they have a wide variety of opinions on which they prefer.Fiery Phoenix wrote...
You seem to be the first BioWare employee who remotely likes Destroy, Allan. It's a nice change of pace.
zambot wrote...
You have no idea if it was "forced". You are projecting that based on your own life views and experiences. It is no secret that sci-fi transhumanistic utopia stories all share this belief that once a society reaches "ultimate knowledge" that all violence and hate is eliminated. How do you know that the writers did not intend this?
RiouHotaru wrote...
I'll keep quoting it: "My creators gave them form."
You can't handwave this away. Also, approval and agreement are not mutally exclusive. It's entirely possible the Reaper solution was THEIR idea as well. Just because they didn't necessarily like it doesn't mean they didn't choose it because it was only way for them to preserve themselves.
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
The geth had came in contact and under the control of the Reapers before and they disagreed with it, why would they agree now? And I don't understand what your trying to say, your logic is almost as bad as the Catalyst.KotorEffect3 wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Then explain to me why EDI is so happy to work with the Reapers when she told me a few hours earlier she would rather die, than to co-exist with them. Also, the Geth, Like Legion who specifically hated the Reapers because they wanted to create their own future instead of one that would deal to co-exist the reapers. And no, it's not one slide, its various cutscenes/slides to show how organics/synthetics are co-existing with the Reapers, it was purposely put into the game to send that message, if Bioware intended to put another message, they wouldn't have put all those scenes.KotorEffect3 wrote...
wantedman dan wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
You physically changed people without their consent but you didn't brainwash them. You changed them physically that is all, you didn't change who they are, you didn't take away their free will or their memories. You changed their dna. It really isn't much different than what the lazarus project did to shepard.
That's why everyone is so tickled to death to accept the Reapers, despite the atrocities they committed only moments before, right?
Once again you are basing that off of one epilogue slide. It isn't about whether or not people are happy to have the reapers around. It is irrelevant. Just because the epilogue doesn't show some crazy person doing a suicide run on a destroyer doesn't mean it may not happen. The only function of that particular epilogue slide was to show how the reapers themselves have a different role than they had before.
Perspectives change, nobody knew what the reapers true function was until Shepard met up with the catalyst and when the synthesis energy blast hit everybody they probably gained an understanding of what the reapers function was thus making the reapers function as reapers obsolete. Remember reapers is just a nickname that organics gave them not necessarily what the reapers themselves think of themselves as.
RiouHotaru wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
That is NOT the solution it's creators wanted.
Which part of "They did not approve." escapes you?
I'll keep quoting it: "My creators gave them form."
You can't handwave this away. Also, approval and agreement are not mutally exclusive. It's entirely possible the Reaper solution was THEIR idea as well. Just because they didn't necessarily like it doesn't mean they didn't choose it because it was only way for them to preserve themselves.
KotorEffect3 wrote...
I am saying since everyone is partly synthetic there is no reason for them to war synthetics as synthetic are now partly organic. At least that is how the reapers see it. I am explaining their perspective, I never said I agree with it all I am saying is why synthesis results in peace (for the time being).
Retour en haut
