1081 réponses à ce sujet

[savionen]

I love when people link theories from wikipedia as if they're fact...

[mauro2222]

zambot wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

zambot wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

*shrugs* Dan is not a troll. He has a valid point.

What is his point?  He is trying to claim that synthsis must mean people are brainwashed because the new opinions of people (working with reapers) is forced.  I provided an argument why the opinion is not necessarily forced.  He has yet to deal with that.  He's trying to lay a trap by presuming that forced "knowledge" equats to forced "opinions".  It does not.  It's fallacy.

No, it doesn't equates to that. But knowledge doesn't equate to acceptance either. Emotions are irrational, you can have all the knowledge of the world and still hate someone who acted like you would. Understanding doesn't equate acceptance either. The main problem with Synthetics/organics is acceptance to synthetics, something that Synthesis doesn't grant. People forgetting of their hate and racism is not proof of "magical knowledge" making them see through flaws.

That is a valid interpretation.  I'm ok with that.  I'm also ok with the interpretation that through new knowledge and understanding, people have come to forgive the reapers and accept their help at rebuilding the galaxy.  It's all space magic, and equally valid.  

The point is that they are both just interpretations of head canon.  To claim either is fact is folly.

Truth to that

[wantedman dan]

Rubios wrote...

 

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Your "us vs them" mentality.

Yes, yes you are full of irony.

 
And you are full of madness and double posts.

It is just a game, everyone should chill... 

That's why you come in and start shouting accusations, right?

[CrutchCricket]

zambot wrote...
Edit: I could tape your eyelinds open and strap you to a chair and force you two watch every single IT video ever made.  Does that mean I forced you to believe in IT?

Do it enough times and yeah, they'll start believing. I believe it's called "brainwashing"^_^

[Grimwick]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan is just a troll that tries to act like he is superior to anyone that does not agree with him

*KABOOM*

My irony meter just exploded.

Same.

Well what a suprise your all agreeing with each other

I wonder why

Your "us vs them" mentality.

But your the one who came in bashing us though, funny because, you even admitted to bashing us as a group. 
<_<

No I came in stating why synthesis is a viable option, you are the ones that derailed the topic to cry about me.

Oh now that is ridiculous. For some reason you decided the reject ending was relevant and started basdhing people for it. You generalise people and troll them, then make flamebaiting comments and whinge when they inevitably get angry about it. You insult people for no reason other than to cater for your self-righteous attitude... that kind of behaviour is not needed on the BSN.

Obvious troll is obvious I'm afraid.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

zambot wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

zambot wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, we've reached an impasse:

TAO's argument once again revolves around the idea that the Catalyst's intent is solely malicious, and that anything he comes up with is inherently a bad solution and therefore must be rejected solely on that premise.

She claims that Synthesis is the exact same thing as being stuffed into a Reaper despite the game canon itself disagreeing with her.

She also claims the Synthesis ending is nothing like what's stated and argues her headcanon of it being some sinister form of indoctrination by claiming the game supports her argument as fact. (It doesn't).

We get it, TAO:

1) You hate the Catalyst and anything to do with it.
2) You dislike the fact Refusal doesn't do what you want
3) You dislike that Synthesis is treated as a viable and beneficial outcome

Next time you want to make a thread on a topic, don't start by stating "100% fact" though. Or using Godwin's Law. Just disclaimer that you're offering your opinion/interpretation, and you won't have a problem.

She's completely right though, Why would you believe your enemy?

http://en.wikipedia....ciation_fallacy 

Your really going to use that against me, I mean I'm pretyu sure that a kid that commands and army of machines that try to destroy everything in existense, trusting it seems a little dumb don't you think?

Association fallacy does not discriminate on the power or severity of the thing you are associating with.  It is still a fallacy.  Let's Godwin the thread a 3rd time shall we.  If Hitler loved kittens, does that make the loving of ktitens evil?

So it's a misconception or presumption to know that my enemy is against me, OK, sure.

[wantedman dan]

Grimwick wrote...

Oh now that is ridiculous. For some reason you decided the reject ending was relevant and started basdhing people for it. You generalise people and troll them, then make flamebaiting comments and whinge when they inevitably get angry about it. You insult people for no reason other than to cater for your self-righteous attitude... that kind of behaviour is not needed on the BSN.

Obvious troll is obvious I'm afraid.

He has ego issues.

[zambot]

CrutchCricket wrote...

zambot wrote...
Edit: I could tape your eyelinds open and strap you to a chair and force you two watch every single IT video ever made.  Does that mean I forced you to believe in IT?

Do it enough times and yeah, they'll start believing. I believe it's called "brainwashing"^_^

lol, I suppose.  I'd like to think no matter how many times I watched that stuff I'd still disbelieve.  Perhaps everyone has a limit.

[KotorEffect3]

Stornskar wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
We don't know how.  The catalyst doens't go into detail

That's the point - if I'm going to make a decision that changes the DNA of every living and synthetic being, I'd like to know what the difference between the last guys they tried it on and me. For all I know the Catalyst is trying to get me to commit suicide so the resistance loses its leader ...

That is a legitimate concern and a reasonable doubt to have about synthesis,  too many weird variables going on to completely trust it.  There is risk in synthesis no doubt but at that point I doubt the catalyst would lie when he is presenting the other options as well.

[mauro2222]

Torrible wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, we've reached an impasse:

TAO's argument once again revolves around the idea that the Catalyst's intent is solely malicious, and that anything he comes up with is inherently a bad solution and therefore must be rejected solely on that premise.

The Catalyst is the equivalent of an insane human, anything that comes from his mouth is a bad solution.

From: http://social.biowar...5245/3#12977735

1. The Catalyst begins as neither trust worthy nor untrustworthy (think Vigil from ME1).
2. The Catalyst deliberately tells you it is the Reaper King which means you have no choice but to mistrust it.
3. The fact that the Catalyst willingly tells you that it is the Reaper King and thus unworthy of your trust tells us that it doesn’t care what you think about it or not. If it did want to trick you into doing something inadvertently then it would not begin by giving you the biggest reason in the world not to trust it.
4. If the Catalyst is not concerned with whether or not you believe it and is thus not trying to trick you then its only concern can be the conveyance of the facts and information that it has.
5. If all the Catalyst cares about is facts and not manipulation then you can trust it.

I think you quoted the wrong person. Otherwise I don't see how this is proof of the Catalyst not being insane.

He has a failed and circular logic.
He lacks any kind of learning capability.
He dismiss anything that isn't inside of his world.

[The Angry One]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So it's a misconception or presumption to know that my enemy is against me, OK, sure.

Don't bother, this "hug the Reapers" crowd have gone off the deep end with their "understand your enemy" and "we must make peace", forgetting that understanding is all well and good until your enemy has declared it's intentions to melt you into construction material or kill you and everyone you care about.

[KotorEffect3]

Grimwick wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan is just a troll that tries to act like he is superior to anyone that does not agree with him

*KABOOM*

My irony meter just exploded.

Same.

Well what a suprise your all agreeing with each other

I wonder why

Your "us vs them" mentality.

But your the one who came in bashing us though, funny because, you even admitted to bashing us as a group. 
<_<

No I came in stating why synthesis is a viable option, you are the ones that derailed the topic to cry about me.

Oh now that is ridiculous. For some reason you decided the reject ending was relevant and started basdhing people for it. You generalise people and troll them, then make flamebaiting comments and whinge when they inevitably get angry about it. You insult people for no reason other than to cater for your self-righteous attitude... that kind of behaviour is not needed on the BSN.

Obvious troll is obvious I'm afraid.

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

[RiouHotaru]

mauro2222 wrote...

I think you quoted the wrong person. Otherwise I don't see how this is proof of the Catalyst not being insane.

He has a failed and circular logic.
He lacks any kind of learning capability.
He dismiss anything that isn't inside of his world.

1) AI cannot go insane
2) You're applying human (or rather human-like) thought processes and morality to him

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

[zambot]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
So it's a misconception or presumption to know that my enemy is against me, OK, sure.

Forgive me if I trimmed the quote pyramid too much here.

I'm also a realist, so the greater the enemy the less likely I am to believe or accept anything he stands for.  
 It does mean the enemy's positions should be held  to a higher degree of scrutiny,  but that does not mean it is necessarily false.  So just because the Catalyst stands for something does not necessarily mean that something is as evil as he is.  Probable?  Sure, I'll give you that.  

Modifié par zambot, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:40 .

[KotorEffect3]

The Angry One wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So it's a misconception or presumption to know that my enemy is against me, OK, sure.

Don't bother, this "hug the Reapers" crowd have gone off the deep end with their "understand your enemy" and "we must make peace", forgetting that understanding is all well and good until your enemy has declared it's intentions to melt you into construction material or kill you and everyone you care about.

Then shoot the tube if you don't trust synthesis.  There are two other viable options if you don't want to use synthesis.

[Torrible]

Immunisation is justifiably forced upon infants to prevent future epidemics.
Education is justifiably forced upon children to prevent future societal breakdown.
In the same way, Synthesis is justifiably forced upon organics and synthetics to prevent an endless cycle of organic-synthetic wars.

It's rough, but sometimes, the ends justify the means.

Compare that to:

1) The near limitless benefits to all sentient life that Synthesis can offer
2) Geth genocide
3) The danger of placing near limitless power in the hands of one individual

Modifié par Torrible, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:40 .

[Baronesa]

RiouHotaru wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I think you quoted the wrong person. Otherwise I don't see how this is proof of the Catalyst not being insane.

He has a failed and circular logic.
He lacks any kind of learning capability.
He dismiss anything that isn't inside of his world.

1) AI cannot go insane
2) You're applying human (or rather human-like) thought processes and morality to him

1) They can go insane... that is a standard Sci-Fi trope.... I mean... COME ON!

Just one and the best here... SHODAN

[KotorEffect3]

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

[wantedman dan]

Torrible wrote...

Immunisation is justifiably forced upon infants to prevent future epidemics.
Education is justifiably forced upon children to prevent future societal breakdown.
 

These two can be opted out of.

[Grimwick]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan is just a troll that tries to act like he is superior to anyone that does not agree with him

*KABOOM*

My irony meter just exploded.

Same.

Well what a suprise your all agreeing with each other

I wonder why

Your "us vs them" mentality.

But your the one who came in bashing us though, funny because, you even admitted to bashing us as a group. 
<_<

No I came in stating why synthesis is a viable option, you are the ones that derailed the topic to cry about me.

Oh now that is ridiculous. For some reason you decided the reject ending was relevant and started basdhing people for it. You generalise people and troll them, then make flamebaiting comments and whinge when they inevitably get angry about it. You insult people for no reason other than to cater for your self-righteous attitude... that kind of behaviour is not needed on the BSN.

Obvious troll is obvious I'm afraid.

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

Don't dredge up irrelevant misunderstandings from the past.

That 'flame' was directed at insults made by the OP, not his opinion.

You, however go staright past the arguments and just insult people through their intelligence, their ideals, their beliefs. You then deny you had done any such thing and insult them some more - then declare them a hypocrit when they insult you back.

It's disgraceful.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

The Angry One wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

So it's a misconception or presumption to know that my enemy is against me, OK, sure.

Don't bother, this "hug the Reapers" crowd have gone off the deep end with their "understand your enemy" and "we must make peace", forgetting that understanding is all well and good until your enemy has declared it's intentions to melt you into construction material or kill you and everyone you care about.

People are far to trusting and naive around here....

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

Hypocrisy, much?

[o Ventus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

1) AI cannot go insane

SHODAN. HAL 9000. 343 Guilty Spark.