1081 réponses à ce sujet

[Khajiit Jzargo]

@Grimwick

Don't bother with him.

[mauro2222]

RiouHotaru wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I think you quoted the wrong person. Otherwise I don't see how this is proof of the Catalyst not being insane.

He has a failed and circular logic.
He lacks any kind of learning capability.
He dismiss anything that isn't inside of his world.

1) AI cannot go insane
2) You're applying human (or rather human-like) thought processes and morality to him

Says who? if it suffers "brain" damage, is capable of making terrible logical decisions.
Morality has nothing to do with this. And it lacks a learning capability.

[Gorkan86]

The Angry One wrote...
This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

They have tried similar solution. The synthesis is different from it. And it can be fact only if you believe Starchild.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

The same way they added an options of Control and Destroy. 
 

[Billyg3453]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

I'm sorry sir, but if you are questioning whether someone is a bot and using their ban time as a reason for why you are right, then your argument is almost certainly wrong.

[Grimwick]

RiouHotaru wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I think you quoted the wrong person. Otherwise I don't see how this is proof of the Catalyst not being insane.

He has a failed and circular logic.
He lacks any kind of learning capability.
He dismiss anything that isn't inside of his world.

1) AI cannot go insane

Evidence, please?

2) You're applying human (or rather human-like) thought processes and morality to him

Irrelevant. We are supposed to agree with his morality... if we don't then we shouldn't do what he says.

What the SC believes is completely IRRELEVANT! It is what WE believe.

[Torrible]

wantedman dan wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Immunisation is justifiably forced upon infants to prevent future epidemics.
Education is justifiably forced upon children to prevent future societal breakdown.
 

These two can be opted out of.

Not in some countries. Even so, would it be immoral to not offer an opt-out?

[KotorEffect3]

[quote]Grimwick wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

[quote]Grimwick wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

[quote]Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan is just a troll that tries to act like he is superior to anyone that does not agree with him[/quote]

*KABOOM*

My irony meter just exploded.

[/quote]Same.
[/quote]

Well what a suprise your all agreeing with each other[/quote]I wonder why


[/quote]

Your "us vs them" mentality.[/quote]But your the one who came in bashing us though, funny because, you even admitted to bashing us as a group. 
<_<[/quote]

No I came in stating why synthesis is a viable option, you are the ones that derailed the topic to cry about me.
[/quote]

Oh now that is ridiculous. For some reason you decided the reject ending was relevant and started basdhing people for it. You generalise people and troll them, then make flamebaiting comments and whinge when they inevitably get angry about it. You insult people for no reason other than to cater for your self-righteous attitude... that kind of behaviour is not needed on the BSN.

Obvious troll is obvious I'm afraid.

[/quote]


lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok[/quote]

Don't dredge up irrelevant misunderstandings from the past.

That 'flame' was directed at insults made by the OP, not his opinion.

You, however go staright past the arguments and just insult people through their intelligence, their ideals, their beliefs. You then deny you had done any such thing and insult them some more - then declare them a hypocrit when they insult you back.

It's disgraceful.

[/quote]


I read that thread and he didn't insult anybody.  Just man up and admit you deserved that ban.  You just don't like that I have strong opinions so you being emotional mistinterpret my strong opinions as insults.

[Billyg3453]

wantedman dan wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Immunisation is justifiably forced upon infants to prevent future epidemics.
Education is justifiably forced upon children to prevent future societal breakdown.
 

These two can be opted out of.

And also have been debated and determined by many people for generations that they are correct. Not one, severely injured and exhausted soldier being told by a defunct AI child to become friends with his Reaper friends.

[wantedman dan]

Torrible wrote...

Not in some countries. Even so, would it be immoral to not offer an opt-out?

In my opinion, yes. Who are you, the central power, to determine what is best for me?

You're not my parents. You aren't me.

[KotorEffect3]

Billyg3453 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

I'm sorry sir, but if you are questioning whether someone is a bot and using their ban time as a reason for why you are right, then your argument is almost certainly wrong.

And yet you call people that pick synthesis tools for a choice they made in your sig.  Yeah we are done here

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Cut down pyramids or the thread will be locked.

[Grimwick]

Torrible wrote...

Immunisation is justifiably forced upon infants to prevent future epidemics.
Education is justifiably forced upon children to prevent future societal breakdown.
In the same way, Synthesis is justifiably forced upon organics and synthetics to prevent an endless cycle of organic-synthetic wars.
 

Incorrect analogies. they have been proven to be beneficial to people, synthesis has not.

Besides, that is a violation of an individual's free will in all cases and the decision should inevitably come down to them (or their close relatives if they aren't mature enough to understand such concepts). But that is another debate entirely.

[wantedman dan]

Billyg3453 wrote...

And also have been debated and determined by many people for generations that they are correct. Not one, severely injured and exhausted soldier being told by a defunct AI child to become friends with his Reaper friends.

Agreed. The two are strained parallels, at best.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

I'm sorry sir, but if you are questioning whether someone is a bot and using their ban time as a reason for why you are right, then your argument is almost certainly wrong.

And yet you call people that pick synthesis tools for a choice they made in your sig.  Yeah we are done here

What's with you and judging people by sig's?

[KotorEffect3]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Cut down pyramids or the thread will be locked.

Would this thread getting locked be a bad thing?

[Necrotron]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
The Catalyst states that choosing destroy will result in the cycle starting again without any sort of restriction. Using the Catalyst's words, their goal has been about the preservation of organic life.

What cycle?  The story has shown me zero evidence of any sort of synthetics vs. organics cycle ever existing.  In fact, outside of Reaper influenced events, I've only ever seen synthetic and organics bridge their differences and help one another.

I don't really believe the catalyst when it comes to such things, it's just AI programming gone mad, as far as I can tell, which I'm glad the EC added reference to it killing it's creator.

Modifié par Bathaius, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:48 .

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

And yet you call people that pick synthesis tools for a choice they made in your sig.  Yeah we are done here

You insult people for a choice they made literally on a daily basis.

This is priceless.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Cut down pyramids or the thread will be locked.

Would this thread getting locked be a bad thing?

Yeah it would for people having intellegent conversations unlike you.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

1) AI cannot go insane

SHODAN. HAL 9000. 343 Guilty Spark.

GLADos, MGS 2 AI Colonel.

Most of these were human created though and operate at our limited level (or slightly higher)

[zambot]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
]What's with you and judging people by sig's?

Really?  The sig is calling people "tools".  How can that be seen as anything other than inflamatory?

[KotorEffect3]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol you are one to talk.  How long was that ban of yours again when you flamed someone for starting a thread in which they were in support of the original endings?  Hypocracy is run amok

And we're back to ad hominem.

are you a bot?

I'm sorry sir, but if you are questioning whether someone is a bot and using their ban time as a reason for why you are right, then your argument is almost certainly wrong.

And yet you call people that pick synthesis tools for a choice they made in your sig.  Yeah we are done here

What's with you and judging people by sig's?

I thought you said to cut down on the quote pyramids

[wantedman dan]

CrutchCricket wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

1) AI cannot go insane

SHODAN. HAL 9000. 343 Guilty Spark.

GLADos, MGS 2 AI Colonel.

Most of these were human created though and operate at our limited level (or slightly higher)

Mother, Father from the Alien series.

[Billyg3453]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

And yet you call people that pick synthesis tools for a choice they made in your sig.  Yeah we are done here

And yet here you are proving my point.

To pick synthesis requires either a lack of intelligence or a betrayal of story that 87% of the time, means you are indeed a tool. Not to mention the fact that you are litterally a Reaper tool.

I've had one good discussion on the ethics of Synthesis, in which we determined we had differing opinions of life.

No where did I mention how long someone had been banned, a role reserved for tools who lose arguments.

Modifié par Billyg3453, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:49 .

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Heeden wrote...

I think that because it is what is said in the extended Synthesis explanation, we see it happening when Shep jumps in the beam, we see energy being distributed through the galaxy and it fits with the space-magic that has been established since ME1.

And is immediately contradicted by the next scene.

Shepard runs in to beam, is broken down in to energy, energy dispersed through the galaxy, everyone arranged in top a new matrix. That's what was said, that's what I saw. I didn't see any half-robo-toaster-mind-control-everyone-stuffed-in-a-Reaper-body nonsense, if you have any decent evidence for it please share.

Aside from seeing DNA being altered in the very next scene?

You see the green energy building a framework around the DNA, not changing it. The scene you're thinking of is near the end when EDI is talking about taking a step "beyond mortality".

Again, why would ORGANICS be altered by ORGANIC energy? I might as well give you vanilla flavoured vanilla.

They don't need to be altered by it, they just need to be able to interact with it, so it can interact with machines (something Shepard is uniquely qualified to do).

Not to mention the very obviously synthetic looking circuit overly everyone gets.

Made out of magic, because electronic circuits don't glow green.

Also, "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology."

Indeed, the organic interacts with the Shepard-magic-energy, the Shepard-magic-energy interacts with the technology.

I actually think the energy is used to make an exact duplicate of the individual that can act as an agent within datascapes but that really is head-canoning because it is based on assumptions, not what is explicitly stated.

The Catalyst's words are self-contradictory and non-sensical, but the intent is clear even as BioWare try to backpedal over the "new DNA" fiasco.

Indeed, they really overestimated the capabilities of their customers to recognise an analogy.

Once again, I wouldn't give a damn about synthesis if BioWare didn't sabotage the other endings in order to force their vision of a best ending down my throat. That this ending is a disturbing abomination just compounds the issue.

Sabotage how? The only ending I have serious issues with taking is Control, but that's because I don't like the idea of a single entity having that level of power. Even then I could see someone who's galaxy isn't in such great shape of mine might see Control as an attractive proposal, or even if they think their Shepard is the right person for the job (my Shep, whilst Paragon, is a constant meddler and generally likes to find his own ways to sort stuff out but as a soldier isn't opposed to liberally applying mass amounts of violence to people who get in his way; these are not qualities I would want transferring to all Reapers).

At least you admit Bioware have made Synthesis look good, so it can't be a case of "just-as-planned" betrayal from the Catalyst before sticking everyone in a Reaper. I just disagree the others are sabotaged - there are ups and downs to all of them and if you did pay attention during the game you should be ready to see them without having to twist the lore beyond all recognition.

Don't forget despite sticking up for Synthesis as a valid choice my Shepard chose Destroy, the "best ending" is very subjective.

It's still headcanon if you believe that "organic energy" is all that it means.
I mean seriously, what does that even mean. Everybody becomes like Shepard? You do know that'd be a form of brainwashing too, right?

No, that would be the same as control. The Catalyst says it needs his organic energy, not his personality. I do think it's nice to think Shepard's friends will get one last fleeting impression of him but if it was mind control the description would be more like the one for Control and there would be different dialogue for Parashep and Reneshep.