1081 réponses à ce sujet

[RadicalDisconnect]

The Angry One wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You are assuming the huskification process can't be reversed.  With the now belevant reapers helping out they may be able to reverse the huskification process.

Tell that to the human grafted on to a Cannibal's arm.
Or the skulls inside a Praetorian.
Or the Turian head on a Krogan body.

Again, I'm speculating that the husks aren't actually sentient after synthesis. Instead, they remain under the reapers control, and the shock on the husk's face during that scene may be a reflection of its reaper being surprised. In other words, the husk is a projection/extension of a reaper's mind.

Said this many times, no one ever bothered commenting on this theory.

[Heeden]

Luxure wrote...

@Heeden The most Love and Tolerance ? Control ending. The most morally good, and beneficent choice ? Destroy ending, which I'm a huge fan of.

Queen Chrysalis was bent on conquering Equastria, she couldn't be reasoned with. She had her well set plan, the day was supposed to be perfect. But Twilight saw past her disguise ( while in her Princess Mi Amore Cadenza disguise ) and showed her friends the truth about her, and did every possible thing to stop her. Chrysalis is just like the Reapers.

Edit : Mane Six couldn't bargain with her, so they had to eliminate her, not join her. 

They never eliminated Chrysalis, she was vanquished but the idea of a pony (or a brony) advocating the elimination of a fellow creature when there are other options would make Fluttershy cry.

Why not equate the Reapers to Luna - an ancient boogie-man who returned after a long absence, was defeated when the heroes assembled a macguffin and was welcomed back to fulfill a role in society.

[Malditor]

It's very possible that the catalyst is looking for a way to stop the cycle and by chosing synthesis that may have even acheived that goal. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. This is not the same as saying the Reapers won, because in order to have lost all advanced species would have had to die which didn't happen.

[Versus Omnibus]

Heeden wrote...
 

No matter how much you head-canon you will not be able to show that in-game Synthesis denies free-will. You will not be able to show with in-game lore that differences are eliminated as a direct result of Synthesis.

It never does remove free-will, and the only difference it removes is the difference between synthetics and organics. Personalities, culture identity, and even physical characteristics remain intact.

[Heeden]

Luxure wrote...

Tolerance can not be applied here. What if I wanted to kill you, and turn you into pig food. How would you accommodate to me ? "Tolerating" the Reapers is a dream. They have been doing this for more than 1 billion years. Tolerance is out of discussion.

It's simple, you love and tolerate the **** out of them. You use the magic of friendship (which lets face it, Synthesis is a direct reference to. I'd wouldn't be surprised if they edit the files at some point to make it a sonic rainboom). If you don't agree with that maybe you shouldn't have a pony-based avatar.

[Billyg3453]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

It never does remove free-will, and the only difference it removes is the difference between synthetics and organics. Personalities, culture identity, and even physical characteristics remain intact.

The free will part is 100% wrong.
Shepard chooses Synthesis, everyone is effected. No free will.

And I believe there wasn't a difference between Synthetics and Organics in the first place.
So the only difference is that the Reapers and they're Reaper-ized troops are still alive, and Shepard is dead.

Modifié par Billyg3453, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:36 .

[3DandBeyond]

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

Not only is it what the Reapers want. But think about this. Really think about this. The people who designed/added to the Crucible wouldn't be thinking "We need to merge with synthetics for greater understanding/final evolution of life/blah blah blah!". They'd be thinking "Oh my god those giant metal cuttlefish are going to kill us, we need to build something to stop them."
I really have to wonder what kind of mentality would see giant metal killbots and think "You know what would be a good idea? Merging our bodies with them!".

This makes so much sense.  Why wouldn't they have just added in the refuse/instadeath thing as an option.

The fact that this is clearly the kid's best (wink wink Shepard) choice makes for the most compelling and obvious reason to NOT choose it.

I view Control in kind of the same light though it's clearly not what the kid wants at all.  He'd be demoted.  But, it wouldn't be something that any race, renegade or paragon would design.  A paragon race would look at it as denying their ability to "get along" and self-determine, learn, and grow, requiring reaper fix it men and galaxy cops.  A renegade race (or authoritarian or such like the Protheans) would not want to be subjugated by one individual become reaper commander.  They wouldn't trust each other with that power.

I see the only being that thinks synthesis is a good idea is the kid who is what I don't know.  He's the collective intelligence of the reapers who are partly his creators and so he is his own grandpa or his own dad.  But, if the kid is the reaper's intelligence then that contains his creator's intelligence and they didn't like being put into reapers so it's hard to imagine they'd like synthesis and since they are part of the kid too then why would he like it?  This whole new thing that attempted to explain his origins makes it worse. 

[Heeden]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Again, I'm speculating that the husks aren't actually sentient after synthesis. Instead, they remain under the reapers control, and the shock on the husk's face during that scene may be a reflection of its reaper being surprised. In other words, the husk is a projection/extension of a reaper's mind.

Said this many times, no one ever bothered commenting on this theory.

It's because you're probably right and there's no fun to be had agreeing with you.

It could be a mix of both - a portion of the Reapers consciousness that acts how the Reaper would if it was a lot smaller and had arms and legs, capable of acting independently but usually attached to the Reapers meta-consciousness.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Billyg3453 wrote...

So the only difference is that the Reapers and they're Reaper-ized troops are still alive, and Shepard is dead.

Garrus: "If you yell loud enough, someone will come over to see what the fuss is all about."

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Again, I'm speculating that the husks aren't actually sentient after synthesis. Instead, they remain under the reapers control, and the shock on the husk's face during that scene may be a reflection of its reaper being surprised. In other words, the husk is a projection/extension of a reaper's mind.

Said this many times, no one ever bothered commenting on this theory.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:39 .

[Billyg3453]

[quote]RadicalDisconnect wrote....

Again, I'm speculating that the husks aren't actually sentient after synthesis. Instead, they remain under the reapers control, and the shock on the husk's face during that scene may be a reflection of its reaper being surprised. In other words, the husk is a projection/extension of a reaper's mind.

Said this many times, no one ever bothered commenting on this theory.
[/quote]

[/quote]
I'll comment. It's wrong. Gamble tweeted/posted he was hoping to debate how Husks would be reintegrated into society/recieve therapy.

[Versus Omnibus]

Billyg3453 wrote...

The free will part is 100% wrong.
Shepard chooses Synthesis, everyone is effected. No free will.

And I believe there wasn't a difference between Synthetics and Organics in the first place.
So the only difference is that the Reapers and they're Reaper-ized troops are still alive, and Shepard is dead.

No, the part of choosing synthesis was removed; there is no evidence that free-will was removed after synthesis was activated.

Also, Husks were never alive to begin with.

[Luxure]

@Heeden, you can't really "vanquish" the Reapers now, can you ? Princess Luna acted as a Reaper aswell. She dramatically declares that the protagonist ( Twilight ) is a fool for thinking she can defeat her, and that "the night will last forever". She thought of herself as almighty, but proved the contrary. And they didn't accommodate to Nightmare Moon way of life, they changed her to what's tolerable, to what we know now as Princess Luna. So they didn't "merge" with her evil idea of what's good.

[Heeden]

Billyg3453 wrote...

I'll comment. It's wrong. Gamble tweeted/posted he was hoping to debate how Husks would be reintegrated into society/recieve therapy.

If he wanted that he should have put it in the game, I'm not going to modify my speculation according to what some guy on the forum said he read on Twitter.

[Billyg3453]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

No, the part of choosing synthesis was removed; there is no evidence that free-will was removed after synthesis was activated.

Also, Husks were never alive to begin with.

Therefore, free will was removed. You have now admitted to it.

And if Husks were never alive, why would you have an issue destroying them?

Modifié par Billyg3453, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:46 .

[zambot]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

It never does remove free-will, and the only difference it removes is the difference between synthetics and organics. Personalities, culture identity, and even physical characteristics remain intact.

The free will part is 100% wrong.
Shepard chooses Synthesis, everyone is effected. No free will.

This is incorrect.  There is nothing in the ending that even suggests that people have lost their free will post synthesis.  It's fine to say that Shep forced everyone to gain "synthesis organic space magic energy", but what happens after that is entirely head canon.

[3DandBeyond]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

It never does remove free-will, and the only difference it removes is the difference between synthetics and organics. Personalities, culture identity, and even physical characteristics remain intact.

The free will part is 100% wrong.
Shepard chooses Synthesis, everyone is effected. No free will.

And I believe there wasn't a difference between Synthetics and Organics in the first place.
So the only difference is that the Reapers and they're Reaper-ized troops are still alive, and Shepard is dead.

The kid still says it creates a new...DNA.  Whatever that means.  That was what needed explanation and yet the question the devs decided to answer instead was how Shepard's energy could be added to the crucible.  I didn't "buy" it but I didn't need that explained-I already completely understood that, stupid as it was.  I wanted to understand this new...DNA and they only made it more muddied.  No one is allowed to offer their objections to having their body's changed.  Tech is somehow some way used to become a part of organics.  After all everybody seeks perfection through tech, right?  Wrong.  Some people didn't ever want any tech implants.

It's a childish decision to require everyone needs outside (alien) intervention and a change to their physical make up in order to learn to get along with others.  It's fatalistic and unworthy of inclusion at the end of game like ME as an authentic choice for a heroic person to make.

[Versus Omnibus]

zambot wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

It never does remove free-will, and the only difference it removes is the difference between synthetics and organics. Personalities, culture identity, and even physical characteristics remain intact.

The free will part is 100% wrong.
Shepard chooses Synthesis, everyone is effected. No free will.

This is incorrect.  There is nothing in the ending that even suggests that people have lost their free will post synthesis.  It's fine to say that Shep forced everyone to gain "synthesis organic space magic energy", but what happens after that is entirely head canon.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Billyg3453 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote....

Again, I'm speculating that the husks aren't actually sentient after synthesis. Instead, they remain under the reapers control, and the shock on the husk's face during that scene may be a reflection of its reaper being surprised. In other words, the husk is a projection/extension of a reaper's mind.

Said this many times, no one ever bothered commenting on this theory.

I'll comment. It's wrong. Gamble tweeted/posted he was hoping to debate how Husks would be reintegrated into society/recieve therapy.

Gamble said that? You must be joking...  

Although is he even a trustworthy source? In the past, he has made some tweets that made it seem like he never played the game.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:49 .

[Billyg3453]

Heeden wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I'll comment. It's wrong. Gamble tweeted/posted he was hoping to debate how Husks would be reintegrated into society/recieve therapy.

If he wanted that he should have put it in the game, I'm not going to modify my speculation according to what some guy on the forum said he read on Twitter.

He did put it in the game. We see a husk clearly regain some form of intellect and stop attacking the soldiers. The clear implication is that the Husk can now think for himself and is "alive".

Also, the argument that "it should have been in the game" is true, but that doesn't invalidate what he says. What the executive producer says is canon, regardless of whether it should be in the game or not.

[Versus Omnibus]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


Gamble said that? You must be joking...  

Although is he even a trustworthy source? In the past, he has made some tweets that made it seem like he nevery played the game.

To be fair, he only asked people what life would be like if Husks were alive. He didn't confirmed Husks were alive.

[Heeden]

Luxure wrote...

@Heeden, you can't really "vanquish" the Reapers now, can you ? Princess Luna acted as a Reaper aswell. She dramatically declares that the protagonist ( Twilight ) is a fool for thinking she can defeat her, and that "the night will last forever". She thought of herself as almighty, but proved the contrary. And they didn't accommodate to Nightmare Moon way of life, they changed her to what's tolerable, to what we know now as Princess Luna. So they didn't "merge" with her evil idea of what's good.

I'm not saying - and Synthesis definitely does not suggest - that we should adopt the Catalyst's methods (which would be everyone killing each other).

Just like the ponies of Canterlot rejected Nightmare Moon's ideal of eternal night, so the organics of the galaxy rejected the Catalyst's ideal of the Harvest. But, when the elements of harmony were assembled and Luna was defeated she was not killed, or brainwashed. She was welcomed back to the herd, given a role fitting to her capabilites and integrated back in to pony society.

That is what love and tolerance is about, that's why Friendship is Magic is Synthesis.

[Psychlonus]

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

Not only is it what the Reapers want. But think about this. Really think about this. The people who designed/added to the Crucible wouldn't be thinking "We need to merge with synthetics for greater understanding/final evolution of life/blah blah blah!". They'd be thinking "Oh my god those giant metal cuttlefish are going to kill us, we need to build something to stop them."
I really have to wonder what kind of mentality would see giant metal killbots and think "You know what would be a good idea? Merging our bodies with them!".

Then why didn't the reapers simply impose synthesis from the very beginning?

[Billyg3453]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


Gamble said that? You must be joking...  

Although is he even a trustworthy source? In the past, he has made some tweets that made it seem like he nevery played the game.

To be fair, he only asked people what life would be like if Husks were alive. He didn't confirmed Husks were alive.

When you post in a thread about Husk Rehabilitation, it seems that would be the implication.

*edited for wrong link*

Modifié par Billyg3453, 05 juillet 2012 - 10:51 .