1081 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The Reaper ideal is to Harvest the galaxy before organics can create a synthetic race capabel of extincting them, this is no longer in effect post-Synthesis. Seriously, watch the Synthesis epilogue - you will notice several Reapers and none of them are slaughtering everyone. EDI even mentions how they become part of the galactic community.

You're just repeating the same argument over and over and over.
Once again. They're not killing us because we are now them. We have changed to suit them.

Glowy-magic is not robot parts, it doesn't make us part-machine any more than biotic abilities make us part-blackhole. You'd make a better argument saying most people already were hybrids, because they wear technological armour, fly around in technological ships and generally live surrounded technology. Synthesis facilitates that relationship, it doesn't OMG half-a-toaster or whatever silly meme you imagine.

You're going to deny that it makes organics part synthetic even though that's what the game flat out tells us, this is why Shepard is used as a template and we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

Husks actually do replace many (most?) biological systems with technological ones, in fact if you look closely you can notice many metallic parts that are not present when humans are Synthesised showing there is a difference. You will also notice that husks don't seem to exercise free-will prior to Synthesis; whereas post-Synthesis beings do.

Different method, on a DNA level. Same result.

[wantedman dan]

CrutchCricket wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...
It's an absurd line of thought, especially when the narrative provides "right choices" all throughout.

Yeah, Shepard's been the master of taking the third option... right until the last 5 min.

I'm of the opinion that if you want to make people choose different options, make those choices worth it, don't **** on the other ones.

Make each choice a different kind of victory.

"Too videogame-y," apparently. If I did everything "right"--cured the genophage, allied the Quarians and Geth, etc--I shouldn't be forced into a scenario in which my only options are slavery, eugenics, genocide, or cowardice.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

And the green glowey stuff isn't technology? What is it then, bio-luminescent paint?

Space magic, or more accurately Shepards organic-energy, but for all intents and purpose space magic; like biotics, FTL and all the other flashy stuff the game is plastered in.

Shepard's organic energy? Weren't you the one accusing others of making stuff up earlier?
Shepard jumps in the beam because Shepard is a CYBORG. Hence, synthesis.

[Zkyire]

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

Not only is it what the Reapers want. But think about this. Really think about this. The people who designed/added to the Crucible wouldn't be thinking "We need to merge with synthetics for greater understanding/final evolution of life/blah blah blah!". They'd be thinking "Oh my god those giant metal cuttlefish are going to kill us, we need to build something to stop them."
I really have to wonder what kind of mentality would see giant metal killbots and think "You know what would be a good idea? Merging our bodies with them!".

The only person in game who is speaking from first hand knowledge of what Synthesis does to everyone is EDI.

And she painted it in a very positive light.

Not domination.

Not slavery.

Peace. Happiness. Advancement. Prosperity. Rebuilding what was lost. Advancing beyond it. And learning about all past cultures.

It is *possible* that her thoughts are being influenced, but there's no way to be "100%" certain of any of that.

For reference, I pick Destroy anyways.. cause **** the Reapers.

Modifié par Zkyire, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:28 .

[wantedman dan]

o Ventus wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bioware has done this sort of thing before. They give you false dilemmas where they shouldn't exist. Remember the Collector Base? Your only two choices was to either give the base to terrorists or destroy it. Wanna give it to the Alliance or keep it for yourself? Nope can't do that the narrative demands otherwise.

That was hardly narrative-breaking, however.

Nor was it the culmination of the entire trilogy.

This is what I was getting at.

[Heeden]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

How? Oh right, because we are all synthetics now. Gotcha.

Nope, that would be the objective of a theoretical complete-Harvest, something that could have been easilly achieved. Watch the Synthesis endings and it explains that whilst organics have become a little more like synthetics - and vice versa - there is still a distinction, although with time that distinction may become blurred as we move towards a higher state of existence.

[Welsh Inferno]

Zkyire wrote...

The only person in game who is speaking from first hand knowledge of what Synthesis does to everyone is EDI.

And she painted it in a very positive light.

Not domination.

Not slavery.

Peace. Happiness. Advancement. Prosperity. Rebuilding what was lost. Advancing beyond it. And learning about all past cultures.

It is *possible* that her thoughts are being influenced, but there's no way to be "100%" certain of any of that.

For reference, I pick Destroy anyways.. cause **** the Reapers.

Nah. Lets not let facts get in the way of speculation here silly person.

[o Ventus]

wantedman dan wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bioware has done this sort of thing before. They give you false dilemmas where they shouldn't exist. Remember the Collector Base? Your only two choices was to either give the base to terrorists or destroy it. Wanna give it to the Alliance or keep it for yourself? Nope can't do that the narrative demands otherwise.

That was hardly narrative-breaking, however.

Nor was it the culmination of the entire trilogy.

This is what I was getting at.

Alright then.

[Caenis]

wantedman dan wrote...

Caenis wrote...

So what's it matter to you guys if people believe Synthesis is Ok? What happens to your world, does it all come crashing down because people don't believe Destroy is an OK option for them in their canon? Would you be happier if everyone suddenly bowed down to your holy beliefs and started pressing the Destroy button? Because at this point I don't understand WHY people are getting so ANGRY about the decisions that people made in their own game and their opinions for it.

The only one angry here is you, lol.

Even TAO is having a moment of ambivalence.

I'm not angry. I'm a little frustrated that people go on bashing sprees over something that doesn't have to be as deep as we're making it out to be, after all it's not real. I'm trying to understand why everyone is getting so frustrated to the point of creating thread after thread  trying to convince people that something completely fictional is wrong. It just amazes me how much emotion is here over options in a game. We've created entire moral and philisophical debates and are using them as if they are law, there are pages that go beyond 204 pages just arguing about this topic. People getting defensive in an attempt to defend their choice and so on. Everyday another one of these threads pop up bashing one choice or the other. I didn't get it, where is all this 'passion' coming from.

Then Welsh Inferno said, "Someone is wrong on the internet, and must be proven wrong."

And it all fell into place.

Humans just being humans....see this is the reason I pressed the Synthetic option on your ....

[The Angry One]

Zkyire wrote...

The only person in game who is speaking from first hand knowledge of what Synthesis does to everyone is EDI.

And she painted it in a very positive light.

Not domination.

Not slavery.

Peace. Happiness. Advancement. Prosperity. Rebuilding what was lost. Advancing beyond it. And learning about all past cultures.

It is *possible* that her thoughts are being influenced, but there's no way to be "100%" certain of any of that.

For reference, I pick Destroy anyways.. cause **** the Reapers.

Listen to EDI's dialogue after sanctuary.
Then listen to that ending and tell me she isn't being influenced.

[CrutchCricket]

The Angry One wrote...
 we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

You know, I would love to hear a biologist list all the ways that doesn't make sense and how catastrophic it would be if someone tried it.

[o Ventus]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
 we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

You know, I would love to hear a biologist list all the ways that doesn't make sense and how catastrophic it would be if someone tried it.

That list would go on ad infinitum.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

There is no co-existence. Organics and synthetics are merged.
It is not the best way. Rannoch proved that.

I managed to save the Geth and the Quarians, if anything it showed me that Synthesis is a great idea because having organics and synthetics work together is a great system. They provide the means, we provide the ends - everyone wins.

Galactic violation without consent is inherently evil.

Define violation - if I give everyone a free wi-fi signal is it violation? There's no suggestion (in fact there's even denial) that peole have to accept the capabilities of Synthesis against their will.

It permanently rewrites life into the Reaper's image.

Again, if that was the aims of the Catalyst he would have completed a full Harvest at the start

It is a perfectly valid comparison, you just don't like it. Keep your insults out of my topic or stop posting here.

No, it is stupid.

[The Angry One]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
 we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

You know, I would love to hear a biologist list all the ways that doesn't make sense and how catastrophic it would be if someone tried it.

I'm sure there's already been a few posts on that subject.
This happens so often in sci-fi there's a trope for it. "Lego DNA". Where writers think you can just insert and remove bits fron DNA strands and get instant, different results instead of, you know, killing everything.

[o Ventus]

The Angry One wrote...

Listen to EDI's dialogue after sanctuary.
Then listen to that ending and tell me she isn't being influenced.

You wouldn't even need to go as far back as Sanctuary, rather her goodbye on Earth.

[zambot]

Why are people still trying to apply facts to space magic?

[o Ventus]

zambot wrote...

Why are people still trying to apply facts to space magic?

Are you saying this in support or oppposition of Synthesis?

Or is it neutrality?

[Baronesa]

The Angry One wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
 we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

You know, I would love to hear a biologist list all the ways that doesn't make sense and how catastrophic it would be if someone tried it.

I'm sure there's already been a few posts on that subject.
This happens so often in sci-fi there's a trope for it. "Lego DNA". Where writers think you can just insert and remove bits fron DNA strands and get instant, different results instead of, you know, killing everything.

For some reason when thinking about asking a scientist about how synthesis would work, all I can think about is that clip of Richard Dawkins saying "You can F*ck off" 

Even had to look for it  to laugh a bit.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...


I managed to save the Geth and the Quarians, if anything it showed me that Synthesis is a great idea because having organics and synthetics work together is a great system. They provide the means, we provide the ends - everyone wins.

How the hell does it show that? Geth and Quarian peace is the antithesis of synthesis!
They don't need their bodies messed with and hybridised to co-exist! They can live together as the seperate, different entities they are!

Define violation - if I give everyone a free wi-fi signal is it violation? There's no suggestion (in fact there's even denial) that peole have to accept the capabilities of Synthesis against their will.

Right, let's say I replace all your limbs with cybernetic upgrades without your consent, even though your own limbs work perfectly fine. You're not obligated to use their enhanced abilities though.
Would you seriously be okay with this?

Again, if that was the aims of the Catalyst he would have completed a full Harvest at the start

The Reaper's method does not guarantee full hybridisation of all life.

No, it is stupid.

I attack a synthesis supporter's argument.
The synthesis supporter attacks me directly.

How typical. It just proves that inside, you know I'm right.

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:37 .

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...
It spits on ME's themes of diversity and resistence of the Reapers.

It encourages diversity - Synthesis is the only ending where you don't have to destroy or enslave any of the races. It plays up to the theme in ME that it is better to make friends out of our enemies than to destroy them (Rachni, Krogan, Geth, Omega Mercs and so on...)

It tells us Saren was right, everyone else was wrong, and has very disturbing racist undertones.

Saren wanted us to prove ourselves useful enough to become slaves to the Reapers, that is not what Synthesis is about. If anything it is a reversal of Control.

[zambot]

o Ventus wrote...

zambot wrote...

Why are people still trying to apply facts to space magic?

Are you saying this in support or oppposition of Synthesis?

Or is it neutrality?

Why does that matter?  

Modifié par zambot, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:39 .

[Caenis]

Here's my argument for synthesis:

1.) I believe The Catalyst was created to bring war and peace between humans and synthetics and somewhere along the way got tired of all the political bull****. It was like listening to an argument between the U.S. and the Middle East over nuclear weapons.

2.) Humans are amazingly beautiful and wonderful creatures, but in the course of history beyond building great architecture and penny pinching people in exchange for health care in order to live longer, what have they accomplished? War, genocide, rape, trauma, pain. It's no wonder so many people in this world are looking for 'Rapture', and create terms like "Heaven". It's also no wonder people are creating a "Technological Rapture"

3.) The vast majority of humans only know how to solve their problem at the end of a gun. And while there are many Humans out there like MLK, the vast majority are corruptible and don't know how to reason 'logistically'.

4.) The price for freedom is just too high. Ask the current Airport System, if we should have freedom. Ask the increasing surveillance cameras, and restrictions on our day to day life, if freedom is a good thing. Freedom is a wholely "American" philosophy, live free or die, and yet at the end of the day most people don't even know what the word 'Freedom' really means. Choice? Choice is an illusion, it's not real. The choice you get in games, the choice you get in life, there are entire books and psychologists and scientists who question whether Freedom really exists, but true freedom, true freedom is the ability to Transcend, to find inner-peace, it's way beyond banging your head against walls until it bleeds.

Therefore, Synthesis is the better option. Destroy is nothing more than a barbaric attempt by a bunch of Monkeys to solve the worlds problems. Synthesis, now Synthesis is true liberation.

Modifié par Caenis, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:40 .

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...


It encourages diversity - Synthesis is the only ending where you don't have to destroy or enslave any of the races. It plays up to the theme in ME that it is better to make friends out of our enemies than to destroy them (Rachni, Krogan, Geth, Omega Mercs and so on...)

It encourages diversity... by saying diversity is bad, and the only way truly different beings can get along is by being made the same. Right.

Saren wanted us to prove ourselves useful enough to become slaves to the Reapers, that is not what Synthesis is about. If anything it is a reversal of Control.

That is EXACTLY what synthesis is. We've proved ourselves useful to the Reapers, and become, as Saren said, a vision of the future, the evolution of all organic life.

[darthnick427]

Agreed. Synthesis is what the reapers want and it's an abomination. That's why I will never pick it. Only correct choice for me is Destroy.

[o Ventus]

Heeden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
It spits on ME's themes of diversity and resistence of the Reapers.

It encourages diversity - Synthesis is the only ending where you don't have to destroy or enslave any of the races. It plays up to the theme in ME that it is better to make friends out of our enemies than to destroy them (Rachni, Krogan, Geth, Omega Mercs and so on...)

What? Homogenization promotes diversity?

Your list is also poor. The rachni, krogan, geth, and mercenary enemies you fight aren't part of a unified whole, bent on a singular purpose. The hostile rachni are mindless animals, the krogan are under Saren's influence, the geth are heretics, and the mercenaries are, well, mercenaries.