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[The Angry One]

Caenis wrote...

Here's my argument for synthesis:

1.) I believe The Catalyst was created to bring war and peace between humans and synthetics and somewhere along the way got tired of all the political bull****. It was like listening to an argument between the U.S. and the Middle East over nuclear weapons.

2.) Humans are amazingly beautiful and wonderful creatures, but in the course of history beyond building great architecture and penny pinching people in exchange for health care in order to live longer, what have they accomplished? War, genocide, rape, trauma, pain. It's no wonder so many people in this world are looking for 'Rapture', and create terms like "Heaven". It's also no wonder people are creating a "Technological Rapture"

3.) The vast majority of humans only know how to solve their problem at the end of a gun. And while there are many Humans out there like MLK, the vast majority are corruptible and don't know how to reason 'logistically'.

4.) The price for freedom is just too high. Ask the current Airport System, if we should have freedom. Ask the increasing surveillance cameras, and restrictions on our day to day life, if freedom is a good thing. Freedom is a wholely "American" philosophy, live free or die, and yet at the end of the day most people don't even know what the word 'Freedom' really means. Choice? Choice is an illusion, it's not real. The choice you get in games, the choice you get in life, there are entire books and psychologists and scientists who question whether Freedom really exists, but true freedom, true freedom is the ability to Transcend, to find inner-peace, it's way beyond banging your head against walls until it bleeds.

Therefore, Synthesis is the better option. Destroy is nothing more than a barbaric attempt by a bunch of Monkeys to solve the worlds problems. Synthesis, now Synthesis is true liberation.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:41 .

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

You're just repeating the same argument over and over and over.
Once again. They're not killing us because we are now them. We have changed to suit them.

I'm having to because you have so little concept of what the Reapers are and what Synthesis does. Rather than making up your own stuff to place between the lines, try to actually reference things we are told in game.

You're going to deny that it makes organics part synthetic even though that's what the game flat out tells us, this is why Shepard is used as a template and we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

Those "synthetic parts" are smaller than atoms, therefore I'm going to say they are "Shepard's organic energy" not robot-bits. The fact we are told Synthesis spreads this energy and we are not told it builds toasters supports this.

[wantedman dan]

Caenis wrote...

Here's my argument for synthesis:

1.) I believe The Catalyst was created to bring war and peace between humans and synthetics and somewhere along the way got tired of all the political bull****. It was like listening to an argument between the U.S. and the Middle East over nuclear weapons.

2.) Humans are amazingly beautiful and wonderful creatures, but in the course of history beyond building great architecture and penny pinching people in exchange for health care in order to live longer, what have they accomplished? War, genocide, rape, trauma, pain. It's no wonder so many people in this world are looking for 'Rapture', and create terms like "Heaven". It's also no wonder people are creating a "Technological Rapture"

3.) The vast majority of humans only know how to solve their problem at the end of a gun. And while there are many Humans out there like MLK, the vast majority are corruptible and don't know how to reason 'logistically'.

4.) The price for freedom is just too high. Ask the current Airport System, if we should have freedom. Ask the increasing surveillance cameras, and restrictions on our day to day life, if freedom is a good thing. Freedom is a wholely "American" philosophy, live free or die, and yet at the end of the day most people don't even know what the word 'Freedom' really means. Choice? Choice is an illusion, it's not real. The choice you get in games, the choice you get in life, there are entire books and psychologists and scientists who question whether Freedom really exists, but true freedom, true freedom is the ability to Transcend, to find inner-peace, it's way beyond banging your head against walls until it bleeds.

Therefore, Synthesis is the better option. Destroy is nothing more than a barbaric attempt by a bunch of Monkeys to solve the worlds problems. Synthesis, now Synthesis is true liberation.

So basically your philosophy of life is correct and you shall impose it on every being in the galaxy because of your correctness. Everyone else can bask in your utter and complete correctness for all of eternity.

[Carlthestrange]

"It is inevitable that we will reach Synthesis."

...Not if we don't allow it.

[Welsh Inferno]

zambot wrote...

Why does that matter?  

Oh it matters. Pro means you're wrong. Anti means you're right! 

Funny thing is I was always neutral towards Synthesis until people started pulling stuff like this out of their behind.

[o Ventus]

Caenis wrote...

Here's my argument for synthesis:

1.) I believe The Catalyst was created to bring war and peace between humans and synthetics and somewhere along the way got tired of all the political bull****. It was like listening to an argument between the U.S. and the Middle East over nuclear weapons.

2.) Humans are amazingly beautiful and wonderful creatures, but in the course of history beyond building great architecture and penny pinching people in exchange for health care in order to live longer, what have they accomplished? War, genocide, rape, trauma, pain. It's no wonder so many people in this world are looking for 'Rapture', and create terms like "Heaven". It's also no wonder people are creating a "Technological Rapture"

3.) The vast majority of humans only know how to solve their problem at the end of a gun. And while there are many Humans out there like MLK, the vast majority are corruptible and don't know how to reason 'logistically'.

4.) The price for freedom is just too high. Ask the current Airport System, if we should have freedom. Ask the increasing surveillance cameras, and restrictions on our day to day life, if freedom is a good thing. Freedom is a wholely "American" philosophy, live free or die, and yet at the end of the day most people don't even know what the word 'Freedom' really means. Choice? Choice is an illusion, it's not real. The choice you get in games, the choice you get in life, there are entire books and psychologists and scientists who question whether Freedom really exists, but true freedom, true freedom is the ability to Transcend, to find inner-peace, it's way beyond banging your head against walls until it bleeds.

Therefore, Synthesis is the better option. Destroy is nothing more than a barbaric attempt by a bunch of Monkeys to solve the worlds problems. Synthesis, now Synthesis is true liberation.

1. Created to bring war and peace? What?

2. What in the entire f**k does this have to do with Synthesis?

3. This is patently false. Also unrelated to Synthesis.

4. See points #2-#3.

[Grimwick]

Heeden wrote...

It may seem strange to you, but some people really do think trying to understand our enemies is a better path to peace than simply wiping them out.

Understanding =/= helping to further their goals.

Everyone in the army might as well kill themselves...

[o Ventus]

zambot wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

zambot wrote...

Why are people still trying to apply facts to space magic?

Are you saying this in support or oppposition of Synthesis?

Or is it neutrality?

Why does that matter?  

I was curious? Why else would I have asked?

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

It encourages diversity... by saying diversity is bad, and the only way truly different beings can get along is by being made the same. Right.

Diversity remains; Krogan are still Krogan, Turians are still Turians. Arguably the only beings who do change significantly are the Reapers as they are no longer shackled to the cycle. No-one is made the same, but we are given access to the same additional ability. Every race has access to extra-net, this does not enslave them to anyone's will or mean they all become the same.

That is EXACTLY what synthesis is. We've proved ourselves useful to the Reapers, and become, as Saren said, a vision of the future, the evolution of all organic life.

What Saren wanted was submission - he said we might be able to become slaves. Synthesis is the result of defiance and we do not become slaves.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...


I'm having to because you have so little concept of what the Reapers are and what Synthesis does. Rather than making up your own stuff to place between the lines, try to actually reference things we are told in game.

Oh no no no no no. You don't get to accuse me of making things up after your "Shepard's organic energy" line. Ever.
You are the one plucking headcanon out of thin air and calling it fact, your lack of understanding of the Reapers and synthesis is quite blatant.

Those "synthetic parts" are smaller than atoms, therefore I'm going to say they are "Shepard's organic energy" not robot-bits. The fact we are told Synthesis spreads this energy and we are not told it builds toasters supports this.

So, they're synthetic, but you'll handwave it as "organic energy" just because.
You don't get to do that, sorry. I am tired of synthesis supporters thinking I have to argue against your headcanon. No. Just no. Argue the facts or drop the whole thing.

[Baronesa]

Carlthestrange wrote...

"It is inevitable that we will reach Synthesis."

...Not if we don't allow it.

I think the inevitability is probably the worst of the arguments...

Not only, as you point out, we can stop it from happening... but we can go on the other direction and see what other things are inevitable... like death... so... "hey! it is inevitable, let us all commit mass suicide!"

[shurryy]

Hey tell the Synthesis Fans that but I doubt they will listen since they're already indoctrinated.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...
Diversity remains; Krogan are still Krogan, Turians are still Turians. Arguably the only beings who do change significantly are the Reapers as they are no longer shackled to the cycle. No-one is made the same, but we are given access to the same additional ability. Every race has access to extra-net, this does not enslave them to anyone's will or mean they all become the same.

Are organics organics? Are synthetics synthetics? No. Diversity removed. Why? Because differences cause conflict? That's nonsense and you know it.

Every species connected to the extranet? More headcanon is it?
Even if that were true, how horrifying would that be to have a constant connection to the extranet whether you like it or not? How would that improve diversity when everybody has to be connected?

What Saren wanted was submission - he said we might be able to become slaves. Synthesis is the result of defiance and we do not become slaves.

Synthesis is submission. It's what the Reapers want.
How can you call doing exactly what the Catalyst tells you to do defiance?

[Grimwick]

Heeden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You're just repeating the same argument over and over and over.
Once again. They're not killing us because we are now them. We have changed to suit them.

I'm having to because you have so little concept of what the Reapers are and what Synthesis does. Rather than making up your own stuff to place between the lines, try to actually reference things we are told in game.

Nobody has any real idea what synthesis does; the most likely solution, however is brainwashing. It's gibberish.

You're going to deny that it makes organics part synthetic even though that's what the game flat out tells us, this is why Shepard is used as a template and we SEE synthetics parts attach to DNA with space magic?

Those "synthetic parts" are smaller than atoms, therefore I'm going to say they are "Shepard's organic energy" not robot-bits. The fact we are told Synthesis spreads this energy and we are not told it builds toasters supports this.

Gibberish. Something cannot be 'synthetic' at an atomic level.

Also gibberish.

Besides, none of this really helps to disprove the fact that this is what the reapers want.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Heeden wrote...


I'm having to because you have so little concept of what the Reapers are and what Synthesis does. Rather than making up your own stuff to place between the lines, try to actually reference things we are told in game.

Oh no no no no no. You don't get to accuse me of making things up after your "Shepard's organic energy" line. Ever.
You are the one plucking headcanon out of thin air and calling it fact, your lack of understanding of the Reapers and synthesis is quite blatant.

Those "synthetic parts" are smaller than atoms, therefore I'm going to say they are "Shepard's organic energy" not robot-bits. The fact we are told Synthesis spreads this energy and we are not told it builds toasters supports this.

So, they're synthetic, but you'll handwave it as "organic energy" just because.
You don't get to do that, sorry. I am tired of synthesis supporters thinking I have to argue against your headcanon. No. Just no. Argue the facts or drop the whole thing.

Please at least watch the EC before discussing this.

[Xellith]

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

"Your organic energy.  The escence of who and what you are - will be broken down and then dispersed.  The energy of the crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy."

Organic Energy - WTH is that????
Escence -  The intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, esp. something abstract, that determines its character.

Magic.

Modifié par Xellith, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:53 .

[Carlthestrange]

Xellith wrote...

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

Its fun till someone fires their headcannon through a wall.

[Caenis]

The Angry One wrote...

Caenis wrote...

<snipped>

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

I'm being a little overzealous and exaggerating.

wantedman dan wrote...

So basically your philosophy of life is correct and you shall impose it on every being in the galaxy because of your correctness. Everyone else can bask in your utter and complete correctness for all of eternity.

 

But, yes. Absolutely. I believe there is something fundamentally primitive about the human species and that we are still children, and my only sorrow is that I won't get to be alive when we transcend, if we get the chance to. I agree that Synthesis is what the reapers want, but...I also agree with the Reapers. I don't agree with the Buggy Catalyst, but I do believe in imposing and stripping away the choice of the human species to bring about mass enlightenment. Especially if 'mass enlightenment' enables world peace.

If someone said to me, "Hey I've got this button that will impose world peace and unity, and mass enlightenment onto the people right now."

I'd think about it for a moment, then look outside my window, then turn on the news, and then ask.

"Will anymore have to die?",
"Nope.",
"Are there any side effects or consequences?"
"Not at all."
"Will people like it?"
"Well some people will like it, some people won't but once we click this button they'll all be absolutely find with it."

And so I'd say....

 click the button ! ! !! ! 

[Baronesa]

Synthesis process... Mass Effect's own midichlorians

[wantedman dan]

Heeden wrote...



Please at least watch the EC before discussing this.

Weak.

[zambot]

o Ventus wrote...

zambot wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

zambot wrote...

Why are people still trying to apply facts to space magic?

Are you saying this in support or oppposition of Synthesis?

Or is it neutrality?

Why does that matter?  

I was curious? Why else would I have asked?

Fair enough.  I think my point is more valid by not trying to color it with a stance on Synthesis.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...



Please at least watch the EC before discussing this.

What spacebaby says and what actually happens are two different things. Or, more accurately, why spacebaby says is just flat out stupid. Why don't YOU watch the EC and SEE what happens next?

What the hell would be so special about Shepard if their cybernetic parts aren't a factor in this?

Modifié par The Angry One, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:53 .

[zambot]

Xellith wrote...

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

I perceive this debate as headcanon vs headcanon personally.

[wantedman dan]

Caenis wrote...

But, yes. Absolutely. 

That's all you needed to say to display how inherently disturbed you are.

[WYLDMAXX]

Heeden wrote...

It encourages diversity - Synthesis is the only ending where you don't have to destroy or enslave any of the races. It plays up to the theme in ME that it is better to make friends out of our enemies than to destroy them (Rachni, Krogan, Geth, Omega Mercs and so on...)

Primarch needed the Krogan and Shepard needed the Turians.

Aria needed the Omega Merc's and Shepard gained from helping her.

Shepard's understanding of the Geth was more orgainic in the sense that it didn't need to be forced. 

Shepard need them as an asset. Had nothing to do with understanding.   Listen to Shepard's dialogue once he decides to save the queen the second time.