1081 réponses à ce sujet

[Torrible]

Grimwick wrote...

Gibberish. Something cannot be 'synthetic' at an atomic level.

Also gibberish.

http://nanotechnology.com/ 

Apparently it can. 

Gibberish.   Sunshine and rainbows!

[Welsh Inferno]

zambot wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

I perceive this debate as headcanon vs headcanon personally.

+1

[Memnon]

Caenis wrote...

But, yes. Absolutely. I believe there is something fundamentally primitive about the human species and that we are still children, and my only sorrow is that I won't get to be alive when we transcend, if we get the chance to. I agree that Synthesis is what the reapers want, but...I also agree with the Reapers. I don't agree with the Buggy Catalyst, but I do believe in imposing and stripping away the choice of the human species to bring about mass enlightenment. Especially if 'mass enlightenment' enables world peace.

If someone said to me, "Hey I've got this button that will impose world peace and unity, and mass enlightenment onto the people right now."

There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin ...

[Peranor]

I'll just say this again

Trying to create an ending that was supposed to engurage debate purely based on on peoples viewpoints, different angles of philosophy and morale was, in my opinion, a huge misstake from Bioware.

A debate like that will never end well, or rather end at all. It will always be an infected debate with lots of passive agressive posts, replies and insults.

If Bioware hoped to split the fanbase and leave the forum dripping with venom then they at least succeded with that part of the ending.

I guess congratulations is in order?

[Carlthestrange]

zambot wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

I perceive this debate as headcanon vs headcanon personally.

Probably more truth in your statement than many people think.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Are organics organics? Are synthetics synthetics? No. Diversity removed. Why? Because differences cause conflict? That's nonsense and you know it.

Yes, organics are organic and synthetics are synthetic. EDI says in the future the division may become blurry, but that does not mean it is inevitable and it excludes it being an immediate effect.

Every species connected to the extranet? More headcanon is it?

You're right my apologies. Many species have connections to the extra-net but it does not mean they are all the same or mind-controlled.

Even if that were true, how horrifying would that be to have a constant connection to the extranet whether you like it or not? How would that improve diversity when everybody has to be connected?

My computer is constanty connected to the internet, so is my phone. It doesn't mean I have to be constantly looking at internet stuff (although in practice...)

Synthesis is submission. It's what the Reapers want.
How can you call doing exactly what the Catalyst tells you to do defiance?

Both us and the Catalyst want the same thing - peace. Synthesis is a compromise that brings peace without anyone having to be enslaved or eliminated.

The defiance came from us resisting the Reapers, building the Crucible and docking it with the Citadel to end the cycle. Saren did not want to do that - he sought submission because he did not believe there was any point in fighting.

[CrutchCricket]

Caenis wrote...
But, yes. Absolutely. I believe there is something fundamentally primitive about the human species and that we are still children, and my only sorrow is that I won't get to be alive when we transcend, if we get the chance to. I

That's fine, but to transcend we have to stop being human. And some people don't want that yet or maybe ever. If you want to personally transcend, control is the ending for you.

[Caenis]

wantedman dan wrote...

Caenis wrote...

But, yes. Absolutely. 

That's all you needed to say to display how inherently disturbed you are.

Yes because it's so much better and less disturbing to commit mass genocide.

[Ravenmyste]

The Angry One wrote...

This is 100% fact, shown within the game when the head Reaper itself not only promotes synthesis as the best thing ever, but admits that it tried it before.

No this isn't about the morality or lack thereof of synthesis, there are enough topics about that.
Here I ask.... if we are to believe that the Crucible was designed by some unknown organic race and improved upon in the following eons... why does it have an option for synthesis?

Not only is it what the Reapers want. But think about this. Really think about this. The people who designed/added to the Crucible wouldn't be thinking "We need to merge with synthetics for greater understanding/final evolution of life/blah blah blah!". They'd be thinking "Oh my god those giant metal cuttlefish are going to kill us, we need to build something to stop them."
I really have to wonder what kind of mentality would see giant metal killbots and think "You know what would be a good idea? Merging our bodies with them!".

who are you again? and why would you fall prey to trolling attempts with making  statistic up like you just said?

fact of the matter its not 100% what the reapers what it may seem like it in a way yes it does seem i will grant that,but the way it was always don was that you loose something in the process, like with saren he lost his will due to sovereign replacing parts of him with tech in the synthesis ending we are not forced to loose are will and or control of are bodies just like hwta happened to tim when he did the same thing to himself he was believing what he thought was his own will and ending up being controlled by them

so no sythn is not really a reaper thing it may seem like that but its not the way i see it its doing what would take 15 shepards to do what one shep did for the geth and the quarians and we all know there always some person that can undo what he did to fix the problems {unles you went with renegade{ and genocide both geth and quarians} synth is permanent way to fix the problem where as destroy was to kill the problems on one sided view but its also the only way to get shep to survive the game..

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 05 juillet 2012 - 05:58 .

[Heeden]

[quote]Grimwick wrote...

Nobody has any real idea what synthesis does; the most likely solution, however is brainwashing. It's gibberish.
[quote]

If the aims of the Catalyst were brain-washing it could have been achieved by seeding the galaxy with indoctrination devices. Nothing about Synthesis suggests brain-washing, that is more the result of Control.

[quote]Gibberish. Something cannot be 'synthetic' at an atomic level.[/quote]

I know, which is why the idea of green magic making us organic-synthetic hybrids is silly.

[quote]Besides, none of this really helps to disprove the fact that this is what the reapers want.
[/quote]

The Reapers want what we want - peace. Is peace inherently evil because the Catalyst desires it?

[o Ventus]

Caenis wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Caenis wrote...

But, yes. Absolutely. 

That's all you needed to say to display how inherently disturbed you are.

Yes because it's so much better and less disturbing to commit mass genocide.

Mass genocide? Which ending allows for mass genocide?

[Mahrac]

Carlthestrange wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I love watching facts vs headcannon arguments.

Its fun till someone fires their headcannon through a wall.

~Looks at 'Shepard's Organic Energy'~

I'm pretty sure that already happened.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

Yes, organics are organic and synthetics are synthetic. EDI says in the future the division may become blurry, but that does not mean it is inevitable and it excludes it being an immediate effect.

It *is* an immediate effect! Stop denying what's shown because it doesn't convene you.
If the truth of synthesis bothers you so much, stop supporting it.

You're right my apologies. Many species have connections to the extra-net but it does not mean they are all the same or mind-controlled.

It means that, if true, their minds are connected to a vast network and open to influence from stronger minds.
You know, like the Reapers.

My computer is constanty connected to the internet, so is my phone. It doesn't mean I have to be constantly looking at internet stuff (although in practice...)

You can disconnect your computer and turn it off. Can you turn off your brain?

Both us and the Catalyst want the same thing - peace. Synthesis is a compromise that brings peace without anyone having to be enslaved or eliminated.

We want peace. The Catalyst wants the imposition of it's will on the galaxy. Synthesis achieves the latter.

The defiance came from us resisting the Reapers, building the Crucible and docking it with the Citadel to end the cycle. Saren did not want to do that - he sought submission because he did not believe there was any point in fighting.

Wrong. Saren began his quest to defy the Reapers, to survive when no one else did. He researched into indoctrination specifically so he could resist it and remain one step ahead of Sovereign.
He failed, and if Shepard jumps into the beam, they failed too - and took the whole galaxy with them.

[CrutchCricket]

o Ventus wrote...
Mass genocide? Which ending allows for mass genocide?

Because it's Mass Effect.

I get it.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

What spacebaby says and what actually happens are two different things. Or, more accurately, why spacebaby says is just flat out stupid. Why don't YOU watch the EC and SEE what happens next?

What the hell would be so special about Shepard if their cybernetic parts aren't a factor in this?

We can stop here then, if your argument is based on "we can't trust the Catalyst" for whatever reason there is no point in debating any of the endings - by that argument Shepard could be nothing more than a brain in the jar ever since Eden Prime and the whole Mass Effect series is a dream.

[The Angry One]

Ravenmyste wrote..


who are you again? and why would you fall prey to trolling attempts with making  statistic up like you just said?

fact of the matter its not 100% what the reapers what it may seem like it in a way yes it does seem i will grant that,but the way it was always don was that you loose something in the process, like with saren he lost his will due to sovereign replacing parts of him with tech in the synthesis ending we are not forced to loose are will and or control of are bodies just like hwta happened to tim when he did the same thing to himself he was believing what he thought was his own will and ending up being controlled by them

so no sythn is not really a reaper thing it may seem like that but its not the way i see it its doing what would take 15 shepards to do what one shep did for the geth and the quarians and we all know there always some person that can undo what he did to fix the problems {unles you went with renegade{ and genocide both geth and quarians} synth is permanent way to fix the problem where as destroy was to kill the problems on one sided view but its also the only way to get shep to survive the game..

The Catalyst flat out said it tried synthesis before.
I can't believe I have to point this out again.

[wantedman dan]

Caenis wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Caenis wrote...

But, yes. Absolutely. 

That's all you needed to say to display how inherently disturbed you are.

Yes because it's so much better and less disturbing to commit mass genocide.

False equivalency. It's so much better to let life self-determinate, something you obviously don't comprehend using that argument.

Edited for clarity of purpose.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:03 .

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What spacebaby says and what actually happens are two different things. Or, more accurately, why spacebaby says is just flat out stupid. Why don't YOU watch the EC and SEE what happens next?

What the hell would be so special about Shepard if their cybernetic parts aren't a factor in this?

We can stop here then, if your argument is based on "we can't trust the Catalyst" for whatever reason there is no point in debating any of the endings - by that argument Shepard could be nothing more than a brain in the jar ever since Eden Prime and the whole Mass Effect series is a dream.

This has nothing to do with trusting the Catalyst, this has to do with what it says being completely stupid.
If it's "organic energy" why would it change organics? Why do they need Shepard and not any piece of meat that's handy? 

[Memnon]

Heeden wrote...


Both us and the Catalyst want the same thing - peace. Synthesis is a compromise that brings peace without anyone having to be enslaved or eliminated.

The defiance came from us resisting the Reapers, building the Crucible and docking it with the Citadel to end the cycle. Saren did not want to do that - he sought submission because he did not believe there was any point in fighting.

A compromise offered by the butcher of millions of trillions is not a compromise - I don't want a compromise, I want to win. I also disagree with us wanting the same thing as the Catalyst - I believe his premise flawed, and his creators morons. The fact that Synthesis is his ideal solution (and tried before in the past) is just another reason I would never pick it

[Caenis]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Caenis wrote...
But, yes. Absolutely. I believe there is something fundamentally primitive about the human species and that we are still children, and my only sorrow is that I won't get to be alive when we transcend, if we get the chance to. I

That's fine, but to transcend we have to stop being human. And some people don't want that yet or maybe ever. If you want to personally transcend, control is the ending for you.

I know Control is actually my Canon choice, it was originally Synthesis. But I decided to become a Reaper in exchange for everyone elses lives, and to guide humanity so that they could evolve on their own time. Basically just watching them, and not intervening beyond repairing what was lost, as I did not believe in Synthesis' Technological idea of Utopia...at least not after further thought, discussion and research. So I went with control.

But the thing anyone can argue why an ending is right if they believe in it enough. I believe that Destroy, Synthesis, Control AND Refusal can all be good choices, and can actually argue pretty aggressively for each one. Since this thread is Anti-Synthesis, I am arguing for Synthesis. If it were Anti-Control I'd argue for that. And while I doubt I'd argue for Anti-Destroy or Refusal, I have written completely valid reasons supporting them.

[Grimwick]

Torrible wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Gibberish. Something cannot be 'synthetic' at an atomic level.

Also gibberish.

http://nanotechnology.com/ 

Apparently it can. 

Gibberish.   Sunshine and rainbows!

You are speaking to somebody who studies this field.

A molecular motor does not make a 'synthetic' of the order of which we are describing here. Nor does the addition of such complexes count as 'adding synthetic molecules'. 

In fact, can you define what a 'synthetic molecule' actually IS in terms of Mass Effect/Synthesis?

There is no such thing as 'synthetic DNA' other than DNA which has been man-made. This talk of 'adding to DNA' makes no sense whatsoever.

[CrutchCricket]

Heeden wrote...
 the whole Mass Effect series is a dream.

Within a dream?

BWOOONG!

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 05 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[Caenis]

CrutchCricket wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
Mass genocide? Which ending allows for mass genocide?

Because it's Mass Effect.

I get it.

Hehe :innocent: catching on xD.

[Applepie_Svk]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Heeden wrote...
 the whole Mass Effect series is a dream.

Within a dream?

BWOOONG!

and it will end like THE LOST ....

[Carlthestrange]

And now you are debating... Just as planned...