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[CptData]

### UNDER CONSTRUCTION ###

### NEW CONTENT ###

Added this section for any new stuff that's too important to be missed.

Poll: Does the VS feel like the Shepard's XO?
Simple question. Before ME3 got released, I got the idea BW planned to use the VS as the Normandy's XO and right hand of Shepard. Do you feel the VS fills that role in ME3?

Poll: (to be added)

Poll: (to be added)

Poll: (to be added)

Virmire Mission, 1st draft

Update History & News

I'm currently reviewing the OP to add or change content. Stay tuned - as soon as I'm done, I'm going to let you know. Once I'm done, I recommend re-reading the entire OP to catch up.
Thank you.

11/4/2012
- reviewed & reworked entire OP
- focused on Ashley and Kaidan content only
- fully developed story arc for Virmire DLC

7/9/2012
- Added Poll "Does the VS feel like Shepard's XO"
- Added "New Content Section"
- Changed thread name
- Reviewed entire posting
7/5/2012
- Created Thread


==============


### ORIGINAL POSTING ###

Just a few words before I start with my maybe lengthy posting:

My little DLC idea is a bit related to [NEW SURVEY!!] ME3 Romance-Related DLC: Petition for Improvements, Side Missions, & More Content

Although I support this petition, I don't fully like the idea of a generic romance DLC. It's simply not possible to cover ALL romances and improve them all without running into budget issues. Every romance may need up to 2000 - 3000 lines of new dialogue - with Liara, Kaidan, Ashley, Jacob, Miranda, Thane, Jack, Garrus, Tali, Cortez, Traynor, Allers, Kelly PLUS Vega and other new LIs you can -really- easily have MORE lines than Mass Effect 1 had!
That's pretty much impossible to put into one DLC that shouldn't cost more than 10 - 20 Dollars.

Therefore I believe it makes more sense to split up a "generic romance DLC" into smaller ones, dealing with one or two characters per DLC. Also keep in mind people are mostly interested in story (or plot) DLCs, which should give everyone an unique experience, regardless if the main character featured in the DLC is an active LI or not. Think of LotSB and you get the idea: you can play it with Liara as LI or as friend. The DLC itself doesn't punish you if you didn't romance her, but you get an reward in case you did.

That being said, the goal of this reviewed thread is to fully flesh out a potential story driven DLC featuring Virmire and the two characters tied to that place: Ashley and Kaidan. "Story DLC" doesn't mean there's no new romantic content - the opposite is the case: if you never romanced Ash or Kaidan, you won't miss anything, but if you did, you'll get extra dialogues and overall far more "Ashley" or "Kaidan" than if you didn't romance them. You even can play the DLC without them - either by not allowing them on your mission or if they're not even available since they died in the coup or never rejoined the crew of the Normandy.


In my original OP I had a short list of DLCs here dealing with different romances. I don't think this list is necessary anymore, therefore it got removed. I want to focus on a Virmire DLC exclusively and anything else could distract from this goal. I must say, however, I support any other story driven romance DLCs as well, regardless if it's one for Tali, Garrus, Vega, Miranda, Jacob, Thane etc. I'd even support one for Liara, despite the fact her romance is the most well done romance in the series.

So far so good. Just one more thing:

Don't flame, don't troll, that's it. Thank you.
If you think, Ash is a rasist b*tch and Kaidan is boring, this thread is not your place. Keep reading, if you want, but don't remind us fans every second post there are people out there who hate the Virmire Survivor. That's not the right place and such posts get reported.


==============================================================

-- Issues with the original romances for Ashley and Kaidan in Mass Effect 3 --

Think we Ashley and Kaidan fans sometimes ask that question: "why should a fresh guy romance Kaidan or Ashley in ME3 without knowing anything of them?"

That's the big question: neither one of both comes with a real "hook up" phase. In fact, you can ignore the Virmire Survivor quite easily: by -not- visiting him or her in the hospital until Udina's Coup. You can ignore him or her, since there's no punishment for not visiting Ash or Kaidan in the first place. No one on board tells you "you're a bad commander since you don't look for your comrade".

Since you can ignore the VS for the first third of the game entirely, it's quite difficult to keep him or her alive or even recruit Ash or Kaidan after the coup. If you did, if you made it that far, as a new guy, you might ask yourself: why should I get that one back?
Later in the game there are nearly no key-scenes for both characters to get in touch with them. You can romance both, but why would you? Would you fall for the beautiful girl and get into a serious relationship - and all you know of her is her name? Yes? Fine - let's hope she doesn't have traits you don't like. Same for the handsome dude, by the way.

As I said, that's a big question and a Virmire DLC should deal with that. You'll get in touch with Ash or Kaidan (if any of them is still alive in your game), regardless if you romanced him/her or not. You'll even learn something new about the one who died on Virmire - in flashbacks - so you might keep him or her alive in your next full playthrough. This time, the DLC is dedicated to get in touch with those two amazing characters. It's less about romance ('though you get rewarded if Ashley or Kaidan is your LI) but becoming a friend of them, since vanilla ME3 does not give you enough ideas to get in touch with any of them. It's as simple as it is.

For Kaidan and Ashley, most of the character build up was done in ME1 with a little addition in ME2. But ME3 doesn't give any ideas so far, which is a shame, especially for those guys who started the series not with ME1. In fact: if I were one of those guys, I'd never hook up with Ashley; she doesn't feel like someone I could get along with.

And that's the big reason why I'm writing this post. Neither Ash nor Kaidan simply come with enough content to attract new players in ME3. Most of the their fans did romance Ash or Kaidan in ME1 and - regardless if they moved on with a new LI in ME2 or not - continued the romance in ME3. But we had a base to work with while new guys simply don't understand why people love Ashley or why others are fallen for Kaidan.


-- Basic Features for the Virmire DLC --

Here's a list of "basic" features you'll see in the Virmire DLC.

--> Missions dedicated to the LI
The big reason to buy any romance DLC - even if you never romanced that particular LI.
Think about the Leviathan DLC: the player is going to face a new plot which is displayed by a set of missions separated by a "hub" like the lab.
Said story should play different in case
a) you bring your romanced VS the mission was made for
you bring a non-romanced VS for that mission
c) you don't bring the VS at all, either 'cause ignored the request / the VS died before.
In any case, the plot is available to you, just some details will change. The most visible changes happen, however, in the hub.

--> Friendly Banter / Romantic Banter
Remember Garrus? That guy had a lot of banter on board. This feature simply should add more banter to the VS - in two variants: "friendly" and "romantic". Friendly banter is used if you didn't romance the character, romantic banter is for an active romance only.
You know, I hate that "Hello Shepard" line ... it's like "Can't it wait? I'm in the middle of some calibrations."
This is the only feature that affects the ENTIRE game while the other features are more or less tied to the story missions.

--> Call the VS to Shepard's cabin
I reviewed this feature. It's now bound to the state of the DLC story. As soon as you're "in the middle of the job", you can call Ashley or Kaidan to your cabin and have a talk with them. They'll give you a private feedback on their thoughts of the last mission (therefore make sure to not rush through the DLC).
Depending on the state of the romance (not romanced, romanced, loyal, romanced, disloyal, newly romanced) the feedback might feel different, ranging from a talk between comrades and friends to loyal lovers.
The DLC is going to have three different missions, therefore you can invite the VS three times.
There's a special reward for an active romance and if you invited the VS all three times, so kee

--> Allow your VS to permanently move in to Shepard's cabin
What it says. That feature shouldn't be available until very late of the game, maybe right after the Thessia mission. Obviously you need to finish the story as well.
The only purpose of this feature is to give you a scene where Shepard and the LI discuss that idea. Once you invited the VS to live with Shepard in said cabin, other crewmembers will recognize that situation and the VS will be in your cabin sometimes (the LI still will move sometimes to another location).
Besides that, it's just a nice "extra" feature.



-- Special Features for the VS Romance DLC --

That's the part where I'll try to give some details on special features / content that's separating this DLC from others - the features named above are "special" already, but they should be the basic features of any story driven romance DLC.

--> Fresh guys content
Remember the issues I mentioned at the beginning? Ashley and Kaidan lack content to get in touch with their characters. I think that should be changed in the DLC, so new guys understand why we love the VS that much.
Basically, most of the new content is added within the missions in the hub. You'll get more in touch with the VS (obviously, only if she or he is still alive!) and you learn more about the one who died on Virmire.
In any case, if you're done with the story, you've learned something about one or both characters.
Important stuff new guys need to know:
- Ashley's love for poetry
- Kaidan's past love
- Ashley's religious side
- Kaidan's time while in biotic training
- Ashley's time as soldier in the bootcamp
- Kaidan's hobbies
- ...
Something like that.

--> Post-Coup dialogue, fixing bugs
Kaidan has one, Ashley has none. I think both should have a quite long talk dealing with the Coup and the past of the two lovers (or friends). I really miss such dialogue.
Also some bugs related to the dialogues (especially Ashley's date dialogue) need to be fixed.
This feature is "extra" and outside of the story part. I just think it should be done.

--> Virmire Story
1st draft of Virmire mission
I'll put the FINAL variant of my idea of a Virmire story here. Stay tuned.

--> Reward for a) romancing the VS and staying faithful
Well, you get extra / changed dialogues if you romanced Ash or Kaidan, which is already some sort of reward. There's a second, special reward you'll get if you romanced the VS in ME1, stayed faithful in ME2 and renewed the romance in ME3: it's going to be a three-parts-reward. There's an exception: if you romanced Kaidan with a male Shepard, you'll get the reward if you didn't romance anyone in ME1 and ME2.

Part I:
A second date in the observatory room. The VS and Shepard are gazing at the stars, holding hands and enjoying a moment of peace. Both talk about a future after the war.
Kaidan / fem!Shep reward: both think about settling down and children.
Kaidan / m!Shep reward: both think about settling down and adopting a child.
Ashley / Shepard reward: both talk about the idea of settling down and founding a family. However, Ash isn't sure if the Williams curse is lifted already - Shepard tells her "it is".

Part II:
The final climax scene gets enhanced with some more lines about their past and how they made it that far.
Basically, the romance scene gets more "romantic content" while the "sexy part" remains similar. I'd prefer nude bodies, however.

Part III:
That one is set right in the finale: the big goodbye-talk is changed if Shepard and the VS were true lovers. It kinda goes back to what they had talked about in Part I - and how it won't happen. But they know they have to try it at least, since it gives them strength.



That's it for now. If I get any new ideas / input, I'll add them here too.
Thanks for reading.

Modifié par CptData, 04 novembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[IllusiveManJr]

How much would each DLC cost?

[D24O]

I think this might be the only DLC I would buy out the gate.

[arial]

I always think that those who want a DLC featured around Romance would really Enjoy the Clannad game, or any other Japanese visual novel for that matter

[krukow]

I would gladly buy this one for Ash. Making Ash religious again, just in a very general way, would be a huge improvement and restoration to the character!

I would also buy the Miri one.

And when i say buy, I mean I would mail my credit cards to Vancouver...

[DWH1982]

I'm a big fan of having the VS DLC, and think their DLC mission should be available even if the VS died in the coup. In that case, you'd still do the mission, maybe even get to learn a bit about what the VS did between ME1 and ME3 (but not as much) but the "best" outcome would not be available.

I think the Ash/Kaidan mission should feature use of the Mako. For old times sake.

You wouldn't actually drive it yourself, but at some point during the mission, Shepard and squadmates would have to get in to one and you'd be treated to a cut scene where Shepard drives it. Combined with humerous dialouge.

Ash: Is it a good idea to drive up that mountain?
Shepard: Trust me. I know what I'm doing. You should remember that from the old days.
Ash: I mostly remember feeling sick to my stomach.
Shepard: You're just jittery.
Javik: This vehicle is primitive and poorly designed.

Modifié par DWH1982, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:55 .

[BP93]

*slow clap*

I forget where I posted it, but as I mentioned earlier, just a simple scene of calling your LI up to your cabin for romance reasons instead of "work related" reasons would be superb. Doesn't even have to be sexual, just some acknowledgment that they are your LI. Take hints from the snuggle scene in ME2 if you have to.

[CptData]

DWH1982 wrote...

I'm a big fan of having the VS DLC, and think their DLC mission should be available even if the VS died in the coup. In that case, you'd still do the mission, maybe even get to learn a bit about what the VS did between ME1 and ME3 (but not as much) but the "best" outcome would not be available.

I think the Ash/Kaidan mission should feature use of the Mako. For old times sake.

You wouldn't actually drive it yourself, but at some point during the mission, Shepard and squadmates would have to get in to one and you'd be treated to a cut scene where Shepard drives it. Combined with humerous dialouge.

Ash: Is it a good idea to drive up that mountain?
Shepard: Trust me. I know what I'm doing. You should remember that from the old days.
Ash: I mostly remember feeling sick to my stomach.
Shepard: You're just jittery.
Javik: This vehicle is primitive and poorly designed.

I love the idea of a mission featuring a Mako or Hammer with Ash or Kaidan around.

Wonder if such idea would make it into that DLC? Doubt it's going to happen, but IF ... Kudos. I really love a "good ol' times" moment with the VS and Shepard.

[Shaleist]

I support this template...

[BP93]

CptData wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

I'm a big fan of having the VS DLC, and think their DLC mission should be available even if the VS died in the coup. In that case, you'd still do the mission, maybe even get to learn a bit about what the VS did between ME1 and ME3 (but not as much) but the "best" outcome would not be available.

I think the Ash/Kaidan mission should feature use of the Mako. For old times sake.

You wouldn't actually drive it yourself, but at some point during the mission, Shepard and squadmates would have to get in to one and you'd be treated to a cut scene where Shepard drives it. Combined with humerous dialouge.

Ash: Is it a good idea to drive up that mountain?
Shepard: Trust me. I know what I'm doing. You should remember that from the old days.
Ash: I mostly remember feeling sick to my stomach.
Shepard: You're just jittery.
Javik: This vehicle is primitive and poorly designed.

I love the idea of a mission featuring a Mako or Hammer with Ash or Kaidan around.

Wonder if such idea would make it into that DLC? Doubt it's going to happen, but IF ... Kudos. I really love a "good ol' times" moment with the VS and Shepard.

That's my only problem with the Krogan story arc in ME3. Garrus and Liara got to see Wrex again, but not the VS. Can only imagine what either one of them would have to say to Wrex. Or an Ashley/Javik tag team trolling Wreav.

Modifié par BP93, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:08 .

[kyban]

I would support any idea, that's good, that expands upon the LI. I would pay money for it, $9.99 seems like a standard rate. But I would pay more if i had to ;p

[Allstar27]

I support this idea! as long as it has a few good missions tagged along I'll be happy

[CptData]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

How much would each DLC cost?

I'd assume that each DLC may hit $10 for each with an option to get the whole bundle a bit cheaper than if you get one by another. Bigger Romance DLC may cost more (like for the ME2 romances).

Seems fair to me, after all, you get at least one or two long missions with different flavors depending on the romance status (romanced / not romanced / not even here). If such mission comes with a gaming length of an hour or so, plus some extra interaction with the LIs, even on friendship level, it's already worth the money.

Modifié par CptData, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:24 .

[DWH1982]

I wish this would get more discussion, because I really would like to see a DLC mission for the VS. They were absent through all of ME2, meaning neither of them had personal missions. Ash in particular got the short end of the stick when it came to content in ME3. We don't even know what she was doing between ME1 and ME3!

Here's a thought - what if Kaidan and Ash both had different missions dedicated to them? The idea behind this: You'd still be able to do both missions, regardless of who survived Virmire. But the mission for whoever died on Virmire is different compared to when they're alive.

For example, Kaidan's mission would feature the group of biotic commandos that he trained. However, if he died on Virmire, you can still do his mission, but the biotic commandos are far less trained, and maybe there's a member who has been unable to overcome some of the issues associated with being a biotic, whereas if Kaidan lived he helped that person do so. It would be a great way to bring back the concept of the VS as a different person, as opposed to the way that they've been somewhat merged since ME2.

Both missions would also be available, as noted, if the VS dies in the coup attempt, but would be different in another, subtle way. For example, if Ash is the VS, but she died in the coup, maybe you run into her unit from between M1 and ME3, and you get some attitude because they're aware you shot her during the coup.

Modifié par DWH1982, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:10 .

[Kaidan Fan]

I'm a pushover for Kaidan. I would buy it.

[danby]

10 buck, im in.  Make it happen bioware.


http://www.halforums...x313-jpeg.6657/

[DWH1982]

Another thought: What if there is only one VS DLC mission, but it takes place - on Virmire?

Modifié par DWH1982, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:24 .

[krukow]

DWH1982 wrote...

Another thought: What if there is only one VS DLC mission, but it takes place - on Virmire?

Mind.  Blown.

[DWH1982]

They'd need to find a reason for them to go there that fits with ME3's plot, thought. Not sure why the Reapers (or Cerberus) would be interested in Virmire, I'm afraid...

[Kaidan Fan]

DWH1982 wrote...

Another thought: What if there is only one VS DLC mission, but it takes place - on Virmire?

Awww.  That would be so sad!

[NinthGeorgesw]

DWH1982 wrote...

They'd need to find a reason for them to go there that fits with ME3's plot, thought. Not sure why the Reapers (or Cerberus) would be interested in Virmire, I'm afraid...

Remember parts of the Virmire labs were studying indoctrination. Cerberus might try to salvage some data from the wreckage.

[Shaleist]

CptData wrote...

[ Bigger Romance DLC may cost more (like for the ME2 romances).

Yeah.. break our hearts in game then charge us extra afterwords. Par for the course.

[dstrawberrygirl]

Virmire? ouch - goodness that would be tough - perhaps searching out the dog tags could be part of it... But in general, a VS DLC would be on my must-have list.

[DWH1982]

I'm not sure many dog tags could survive a nuke.

Since we're there for a mission anyway, maybe placing a memorial could be part of it, though.

Modifié par DWH1982, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:12 .

[devSin]

There needs to be DLC for Kaidan, Ashley, James, Steve, and Sam.

DLC for Kaidan and Ashley would be at the top of my list, though.