182 réponses à ce sujet

[Nolixe]

dumdum2 wrote...
Either you are a good player and can play on every difficulty, against every enemy, with every class with ease and still have a lot of fun and get high scores etc. Or you are a crappy player who should stick to bronze or a decent player who should stick to silver. For someone to say that they are a good player and then say that they have a hard time using a certain class that good players normally handle with ease is just BS (no, I don't mean Batarian Sentinel).

And here we go about good and crappy players again... I, personally, didn't use Infiltrators besides Melee Geth at all, since they're boring and this class was fourth(fifth) choice after Novaguard, Drell Adept and Vorchas. But I do see where the problem comes from for those who wanted to play demanding games without wasting months of their private lives. Yeah, they played Infiltrators, and now they'll play... what? they'll just leave the game entirely or they'll play silver => less players at the GOLD, longer waiting time

[DHKany]

In the words of the TF2 Heavy.
Cry some Moor.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I actually think Infiltrator is MORE fun now with the shorter cloak, because it's challenging and requires...*gasp*...TACTICAL play. Gone are the times where you could cloak, activate object 1, run across the map, activate object 2, and have a cup of tea before de-cloaking. Now objectives require some planning and maneuvering. Hardly a bad thing.

[dumdum2]

Nolixe wrote...
And here we go about good and crappy players again...

I didn't start it, it was OP who said he was a good player at the same time that he said that he couldn't have fun playing gold with the Infiltrator anymore. I only commented the definition of what a good player is and nothing else

Nolixe wrote...But I do see where the problem comes from for those who wanted to play demanding games without wasting months of their private lives. Yeah, they played Infiltrators, and now they'll play... what? they'll just leave the game entirely or they'll play silver

What's all this huh? You don't have to waste months of your life playing this game for it to be demanding, that's why there's different difficulty levels. If you don't have the time or if you in fact have a life then you can play bronze and silver and you'll have your demanding gameplay. My point is that they can still play demanding games on a lower difficulty, why would you even want to play a "demanding" game using a character that makes it as easy as possible? That contradicts itself.

Nolixe wrote...
=> less players at the GOLD, longer waiting time

I agree with that but I also couldn't care less

[Taalar]

My only issue is, now that they made the change, start making the cloak work for more enemies. It is especially tiring when you have taken the longer cloak option and geth ignore it when you are trying to be good support. Other than that, I have no problem with the changes.

[Terry07]

Beerfish wrote...

I guess you perhaps proved you were not as good of a player as you thought.

Agreed.  If you die that much as an infiltrator, please don't consider yourself as a good player just yet.  Before you were simply taking advantage of the overpowered features of an infiltrator and using less tactics and skills as a player.  Now your true skills shine, which has sadly overwhelmed you.  What can I say? Practice more. 

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Taalar wrote...

My only issue is, now that they made the change, start making the cloak work for more enemies. It is especially tiring when you have taken the longer cloak option and geth ignore it when you are trying to be good support. Other than that, I have no problem with the changes.

That's a great point.  The cloak should definitely be more effective for hiding than it is now, for those who opt for duration.

[Bolo Xia]

a shockwave user that picks radius is unplayable.

[tanisha__unknown]

Just came across a GI with a reegar carbine. This guy scored thrice as much as the next player player. Granted, squad was downed in wave 11, but that's for how infiltrators suck after the nerf.

[Shampoohorn]

Jinx1720 wrote...

Just came across a GI with a reegar carbine. This guy scored thrice as much as the next player player. Granted, squad was downed in wave 11, but that's for how infiltrators suck after the nerf.

The reegar is a joke though.  I was playing with a Random Reegar QME last night and he was killing everything with it faster than my target reticule could turn red.  It's like a fire hose full of noob.

[Ashen One]

lightsnow13 wrote...

The sniper damage is pretty much the same.. slightly less, sure, but when you can shoot a geth prime on gold and take out half their armor..somethings wrong..

I think it just simply gives the infiltrator two different styles of play and distinguishes them more. All the cloak damage evolution does is make you feel more pressured to shoot at something. Which it should.. if you're doing an extra +100% damage with a sniper you shouldn't have 8 seconds to look around and pick a target. Now it's just 4 seconds which is justifiable and still easy, especially if you're already looking at your target.

I just..fail to see a problem here..

A class/race specific power with multiple aspects should be good in all aspects, with the evolutions giving the player the option to expand on those aspects to make them better imo. For example, Tech Armor both protects you from damage, and can be detonated to stagger enemies. Regardless of which evolution you take, you're still getting a fair amount of damage reduction, and can still stagger/damage enemies by blowing it up but the rank 4 allows you to expand on either aspect of the power to make it better. (Increased blast damage/radius, or additional damage protection)

With TC, a 4 second base duration is just really bad so it's more like taking a mediocre aspect of a power, and actually making it worth something at rank 4 if you pick duration. If Bioware wanted to make the duration meaningful, they sure accomplished that with the nerf because a 4-5 second "tactical cloak" might as well not even be a tactical cloak at all.

Same with Hunter Mode's so called "enhanced vision" that has less base range than shockwave. The "enhanced vision" is mediocre, and won't really highlight anything that isn't already on top of you unless you take the vision and movement speed bonus at rank 6. So they made the evolution that people usually skipped meaningful by making the base range so useless that in order to (partially) compensate, a player would have to respec.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 06 juillet 2012 - 05:34 .

[Booshnickins]

Kalas321 wrote...

Booshnickins wrote...

After the so-called nerf.

Human Infiltrator

Tac Cloak spec'd up only to level 4 for Duration.

S Grenade to 6

Cryo to 6

Alliance Training to 6

Fitness to 4

Vindicator X and Phalanx X against the Reapers on Gold and I had over 100k points. Even with making it spec'd like that, it's still a VERY effective class. Maybe you guys just need to learn how to actually play this game?

What amps did you use? 

Did you solo some rounds?What was the clear time?

I used a level 3 shield booster and the stronghold equipment thing. I used level 2 inferno rounds and a level 2 assault rifle rail amp. It was with a group and the clear time was about 24 minutes.

[mybudgee]

I heard the the DPS for the Reegar is over 4000...is that even possible?!?

Modifié par mybudgee, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:15 .

[BlackoutOmega]

astheoceansblue wrote...

No, they're not, they're just horrible compared to other builds

Fix'd

[BlackoutOmega]

I only come onto these kinds of threads to rate them 5 stars, and laugh at the balance kiddies.
They are the cancer that is killing ME3 MP

[Major Durza]

thewalrusx wrote...

"you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

[Major Durza]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

A class/race specific power with multiple aspects should be good in all aspects, with the evolutions giving the player the option to expand on those aspects to make them better imo. For example, Tech Armor both protects you from damage, and can be detonated to stagger enemies. Regardless of which evolution you take, you're still getting a fair amount of damage reduction, and can still stagger/damage enemies by blowing it up but the rank 4 allows you to expand on either aspect of the power to make it better. (Increased blast damage/radius, or additional damage protection)

With TC, a 4 second base duration is just really bad so it's more like taking a mediocre aspect of a power, and actually making it worth something at rank 4 if you pick duration. If Bioware wanted to make the duration meaningful, they sure accomplished that with the nerf because a 4-5 second "tactical cloak" might as well not even be a tactical cloak at all.

Same with Hunter Mode's so called "enhanced vision" that has less base range than shockwave. The "enhanced vision" is mediocre, and won't really highlight anything that isn't already on top of you unless you take the vision and movement speed bonus at rank 6. So they made the evolution that people usually skipped meaningful by making the base range so useless that in order to (partially) compensate, a player would have to respec.

Geth Hunter Mode is still fine.

If you think 4 seconds (actually, it turns to 5.2 seconds when you get the first 3 requirements) is bad then you really shouldn't play as an infiltrator. People were using the cloak as a damage increase since the duration was already long enough people wouldn't need to get the duration evolution. Now it really IS a damage buffer - but NOT a long distance cloak. If you wanted to cloak for a long period of time, get the duration. You still get a slight damage buff with a significantly longer duration. I believe your complaint stems more from the fact that they nerfed a fun power. Sure, they nerfed it, but in the process they created two different playstyles that are significantly different.

But really...5.2 seconds to line up a shot... I really hope you can do that. Especially with the auto aim that's already implemented.

Aim assist (Reticle slowing down on a target) is only on consoles.
It is not unplayable, you still have a damage boost that laughs at Adrenaline Rush, SI still has Energy Drain and Proxy Mine, GI still has Hunter Mode and Proxy Mine, now it is just a class that needs to be mastered like the rest.  GI is no longer as much of an easy mode with the biggest set of damage boosts in the game.

[COLZ7R]

I was and still am against this nerf, think it was poorly implemented and done for the wrong reasons, but infs are in no way unplayable, have not noticed any difference in my scores, still go for the objectives, still res people.
Valiant+reegar+gg v on my mqi still kicks butt, cooldowns are a bit longer, but thats what cover is for, same as other classes that aint a tank

[Simbacca]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Infiltrators are not unplayable, they're just no longer the go-to class for noobs attempting to play above their difficulty level.

-An infiltrator

Beautiful, pretty much summarizes the entire debate. Now I finally know how to respond to this:

RamsenC wrote...

I find it funny that people are complaining that the best class in the game got nerfed down to still being the best class in the game.

They're not, even if they are effectively. They're actually complaining that the easy mode class got brought down to just being the best class. Now the near only class they could sometimes play gold with, they somehow can't.

All the data bioware had said that near no one took evo 3 before. And no should of, why when taking evo 4 still gave the best of both choices. Now i'm willing to bet the spread between the choices is becoming more balanced.  Now bioware just needs to buff all the bullet sniper rifles base damage a little, like we all though they would do alongside this change.

Kronner wrote...

I love the change. It forces me to think harder and play better.

Another old quote I fully agree with. We still take the damage evo every time, and we still cap objectives and revive teammates. It's just more fun now because we have to be actually be smart, actually be tactical about it instead of just wildly running wherever.

-An infiltrator... and a sentinel, vanguard, adept, soldier, and engineer

Modifié par Simbacca, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:34 .

[Ashen One]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

A class/race specific power with multiple aspects should be good in all aspects, with the evolutions giving the player the option to expand on those aspects to make them better imo. For example, Tech Armor both protects you from damage, and can be detonated to stagger enemies. Regardless of which evolution you take, you're still getting a fair amount of damage reduction, and can still stagger/damage enemies by blowing it up but the rank 4 allows you to expand on either aspect of the power to make it better. (Increased blast damage/radius, or additional damage protection)

With TC, a 4 second base duration is just really bad so it's more like taking a mediocre aspect of a power, and actually making it worth something at rank 4 if you pick duration. If Bioware wanted to make the duration meaningful, they sure accomplished that with the nerf because a 4-5 second "tactical cloak" might as well not even be a tactical cloak at all.

Same with Hunter Mode's so called "enhanced vision" that has less base range than shockwave. The "enhanced vision" is mediocre, and won't really highlight anything that isn't already on top of you unless you take the vision and movement speed bonus at rank 6. So they made the evolution that people usually skipped meaningful by making the base range so useless that in order to (partially) compensate, a player would have to respec.

Geth Hunter Mode is still fine.

The Enhanced Vision is not "fine" unless you spec specifically for it. But yeah, the damage boosts are still fine. That could have been handled by nerfing the damage and leaving the vision alone.

lightsnow13 wrote...

If you think 4 seconds (actually, it turns to 5.2 seconds when you get the first 3 requirements) is bad then you really shouldn't play as an infiltrator. People were using the cloak as a damage increase since the duration was already long enough people wouldn't need to get the duration evolution. Now it really IS a damage buffer - but NOT a long distance cloak. If you wanted to cloak for a long period of time, get the duration. You still get a slight damage buff with a significantly longer duration. I believe your complaint stems more from the fact that they nerfed a fun power. Sure, they nerfed it, but in the process they created two different playstyles that are significantly different.

My point is that the Tactical Cloak should function as a Tactical Cloak and allow you to evade enemies regardless of which evolution you choose, just as Tech Armor will reduce damage regardless of which evolution you choose. 5.2 seconds works for a damage boost but is worthless for evading enemies. However, a class specific power like Tech Armor will reduce damage, and even if you choose the damage reduction at rank 4, will still stagger enemies and damage them when detonated, and if you choose the damage and radius rank 4 you're still getting a very good amount of damage reduction. TC could last 1.5-2 seconds longer than it does now without being OP, and it would also partially solve the glaringly obvious balance issues with the heavy sniper rifles at the moment. The duration specced infiltrator would still clearly be better at the objectives (damage specced Infiltrator's cloak would still run out before it's finished) flanking and revives but both aspects of the power would be good again instead of the stealth aspect being crappy and virtually non-existant.

And for the record, I still see more damage specced infiltrators than duration speccecd infiltrators in PUGs.

lightsnow13 wrote...

But really...5.2 seconds to line up a shot... I really hope you can do that. Especially with the auto aim that's already implemented.

In case I wasn't clear before, it's not about lining up shots. It's about using "cloak" for anything else. As it stands, the "cloak" is only really useful for one purpose depending on what you spec for at rank 4, (unlike many other class specific powers) which is bad game design.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:42 .

[DieselL]

i dont care about the nerf i still play the geth infiltrator and it is still overpowered, you cant disable objectives as easy as before if you dont play solo , so its the fault of the the team if they do not cover you trying! not taking the 40% damage evaluation is like wasting the ability of having the most effective damage dealing class so instead of 130% pure sniper damage from cloak you get 105% that still no other class cant top

[sliverofamoon]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

A class/race specific power with multiple aspects should be good in all aspects, with the evolutions giving the player the option to expand on those aspects to make them better imo. For example, Tech Armor both protects you from damage, and can be detonated to stagger enemies. Regardless of which evolution you take, you're still getting a fair amount of damage reduction, and can still stagger/damage enemies by blowing it up but the rank 4 allows you to expand on either aspect of the power to make it better. (Increased blast damage/radius, or additional damage protection)

With TC, a 4 second base duration is just really bad so it's more like taking a mediocre aspect of a power, and actually making it worth something at rank 4 if you pick duration. If Bioware wanted to make the duration meaningful, they sure accomplished that with the nerf because a 4-5 second "tactical cloak" might as well not even be a tactical cloak at all.

Same with Hunter Mode's so called "enhanced vision" that has less base range than shockwave. The "enhanced vision" is mediocre, and won't really highlight anything that isn't already on top of you unless you take the vision and movement speed bonus at rank 6. So they made the evolution that people usually skipped meaningful by making the base range so useless that in order to (partially) compensate, a player would have to respec.

Geth Hunter Mode is still fine.

If you think 4 seconds (actually, it turns to 5.2 seconds when you get the first 3 requirements) is bad then you really shouldn't play as an infiltrator. People were using the cloak as a damage increase since the duration was already long enough people wouldn't need to get the duration evolution. Now it really IS a damage buffer - but NOT a long distance cloak. If you wanted to cloak for a long period of time, get the duration. You still get a slight damage buff with a significantly longer duration. I believe your complaint stems more from the fact that they nerfed a fun power. Sure, they nerfed it, but in the process they created two different playstyles that are significantly different.

But really...5.2 seconds to line up a shot... I really hope you can do that. Especially with the auto aim that's already implemented.

Responding to what I bolded and highlighted. And trust me, the nerf to TC really burned me, and felt a little TOO heavy-handed for a starter nerf to the class. a 6 second base I think would have been a little easier to swallow. Now I did notice that Ashen, you are on the Xbox, and I play PC so our gameplay is very much different. My husband plays the Xbox ME3 MP. Please nobody take what I am saying as argumentative, or sarcastic. I am just stating my own observations, and experiences. However, putting all that aside...

1. After I raged about the nerf, a friend of mine helped me practice to get better with my headshots. Giving me tips, pointers, and advice. He gave me some little training "drills" to increase my survivability. After a day of this, taking the rank 4/Damage, 5/Recharge, 6/Fire One Power in my TC tree with my FQI and maxing Overheat, and tech. damage with her Sabotage, the shorter duration really didn't hurt so bad. It took a lot for me to get used to, but eventually, I did fine, and my increased headshots helped me immensly. I don't want to go into too much detail, but I do not think that a damage specc'ed Infiltrator is really hurt that badly, and couple that with the Cloak>Power>Shoot cycle, eventualy combat-wise I was MUCH more effective than I ever was before the nerf.

2. And yes, HUGE differences in playstyle.... for the ENTIRE team. With the Damage build, no longer can people run off, rambo'ing on their own, and have the safety net of the Infiltrator being able to sprint across the map and revive you. Does that mean that I am not a team-player anymore? HELL no. It means that the other people in the party have to stick together and actually work as a team now, share responsibility for capping objectives, and NOT go running off willy-nilly quite as much if the want to survive, and earn credits. It's not that I don't want to run out and revive the turret-charging Krogan, or VG, it's that I just CAN'T anymore quite as quickly. That doesn't mean that I will not do my best to try to revive a team-mate. To me, regardless of what character I am playing, revives are a #1 Priority. Period. Again, the change makes a team have to think and act as a team on the higher difficulties. Not just the Infiltrator. And in addition, the damage specc'ed Infiltrator lessens the pet peeve of Nicecuthburt, and his anti-agro-dumping campaign. Shorter duration = less time your team-mates are decoys, if at all.

3. And again, this, coming from a woman playing on PC with 0 auto-aiming, so I really can't say how that would make the gameplay different. I really don't have a true idea on how much different the duration effects playstyle there. About all I can say about the different platforms, is that after playing on my PC, if my husband is playing on his Xbox and I look over his shoulder I am always astounded at how much slower the enemies move in comparision to my experience where the trooper level enemies run around like hamsters on crack.