177 réponses à ce sujet

[Arl Raylen]

The endings are melancholy to a fault. It's what Bioware wanted. Nothing we can do now.

[mass perfection]

Shepard is just that awesome.

[Reorte]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

The memorial scene means nothing. The LI has no way of knowing. We see (probably) Shepard looking and sounding just about alive in some rubble, and not in a good state. Taking it beyond that relies on literary cliche and convention. If you take that scant evidence as truth I hope you're never on a jury.

The memorial scene is symbolic. Sheps name goes up in every ending except High EMS destroy, where we see Shepard still breathes. And then we have been told by several Devs and the file name itself that Shepard lives.

If that's not enough evidence for you, I hope you're not on a jury.

Devs can say what they like then contradict it in the game if they want without the game becoming contradictory. Therefore it doesn't mean much. DItto with filenames. If you're bringing in outside of the game details (and filenames are) then that rather suggests that what's in game doesn't do the job. Anyway, as I said all that scene shows is (probably) Shepard just about alive and in a state where it doesn't look too promising to last that much longer if he's not found soon. The filename doesn't go further than that, other than making it certain it's Shepard.

The only real comment I've seen on it from BW says "there is hope...", not certainty.

alsonamedbort wrote...
Well luckily for everyone involved this is not a trial, so your jury statement means absolutely nothing.

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument or an admission that it isn't anywhere near proof?

Modifié par Reorte, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:59 .

[Julius Remus]

Shepard isnt dead, that final breath means he can be rescued, healed and spends the rest of his days, on Rannoch with Tali. Now I bet they didnt think that was artistic enough. lol

[ObserverStatus]

Lol, this is why I've always said that having sex with morinth is the best ending, at least Shepard dies happy in that one.

[Apocaleepse360]

bobobo878 wrote...

Lol, this is why I've always said that having sex with morinth is the best ending, at least Shepard dies happy in that one.

I couldn't help but laugh at this, mainly because it is so true.

[Billyg3453]

Reorte wrote...

Devs can say what they like then contradict it in the game if they want without the game becoming contradictory. Therefore it doesn't mean much. DItto with filenames. If you're bringing in outside of the game details (and filenames are) then that rather suggests that what's in game doesn't do the job. Anyway, as I said all that scene shows is (probably) Shepard just about alive and in a state where it doesn't look too promising to last that much longer if he's not found soon. The filename doesn't go further than that, other than making it certain it's Shepard.

First of all, the filename is "Shep_Alive"

And second, there is absolutely enough evidence to show Shepard is alive. If you don't believe so, it isn't because the answer isn't there, it is because you refuse to accept it.

[alsonamedbort]

Reorte wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

The memorial scene means nothing. The LI has no way of knowing. We see (probably) Shepard looking and sounding just about alive in some rubble, and not in a good state. Taking it beyond that relies on literary cliche and convention. If you take that scant evidence as truth I hope you're never on a jury.

The memorial scene is symbolic. Sheps name goes up in every ending except High EMS destroy, where we see Shepard still breathes. And then we have been told by several Devs and the file name itself that Shepard lives.

If that's not enough evidence for you, I hope you're not on a jury.

Devs can say what they like then contradict it in the game if they want without the game becoming contradictory. Therefore it doesn't mean much. DItto with filenames. If you're bringing in outside of the game details (and filenames are) then that rather suggests that what's in game doesn't do the job. Anyway, as I said all that scene shows is (probably) Shepard just about alive and in a state where it doesn't look too promising to last that much longer if he's not found soon. The filename doesn't go further than that, other than making it certain it's Shepard.

The only real comment I've seen on it from BW says "there is hope...", not certainty.

alsonamedbort wrote...
Well luckily for everyone involved this is not a trial, so your jury statement means absolutely nothing.

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument or an admission that it isn't anywhere near proof?

Oh lolz, you wish.  I'm saying those two things are not conflatable.

But since you asked, I will say this:  context is key.  Why would that scene be in the game at all if not to make it clear that Shepard was alive? 

As for your remarks on the dev comments about there being "hope," you can't say that Twitter shouldn't be required to flesh out the story and then say that the comment from BioWare is proof that there isn't any certainty on the issue.  That's called having your cake and eating it too.

And finally, as for the whole "hope v. certainty" issue, I concede that there is less certainty in that ending than a lot of people would like.  There is a lot of hope in the fact that Shepard is breathing again on the Citadel.  There is hope in the LI not putting the name on the wall, knowing that Shepard is out there, somewhere.  If you want to believe that Shepard took his/her last breath at that moment on the Citadel, that is certainly your prerogative, but if you choose to believe that, that's the result your own imagination and decision-making, not the result of "bad storytelling."

[Reorte]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Devs can say what they like then contradict it in the game if they want without the game becoming contradictory. Therefore it doesn't mean much. DItto with filenames. If you're bringing in outside of the game details (and filenames are) then that rather suggests that what's in game doesn't do the job. Anyway, as I said all that scene shows is (probably) Shepard just about alive and in a state where it doesn't look too promising to last that much longer if he's not found soon. The filename doesn't go further than that, other than making it certain it's Shepard.

First of all, the filename is "Shep_Alive"

And second, there is absolutely enough evidence to show Shepard is alive. If you don't believe so, it isn't because the answer isn't there, it is because you refuse to accept it.

Did you even read my post? I'm not arguing that Shepard isn't alive at the moment you see him breathe.

[Apocaleepse360]

Billyg3453 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Devs can say what they like then contradict it in the game if they want without the game becoming contradictory. Therefore it doesn't mean much. DItto with filenames. If you're bringing in outside of the game details (and filenames are) then that rather suggests that what's in game doesn't do the job. Anyway, as I said all that scene shows is (probably) Shepard just about alive and in a state where it doesn't look too promising to last that much longer if he's not found soon. The filename doesn't go further than that, other than making it certain it's Shepard.

First of all, the filename is "Shep_Alive"

And second, there is absolutely enough evidence to show Shepard is alive. If you don't believe so, it isn't because the answer isn't there, it is because you refuse to accept it.

I think you're missing the point.

It's just a brief scene of Shepard taking a breath. That's it. Literally ANYTHING can happen after that scene thanks to BioWare's lack of closure, you know, one of the things that they had promised would come in the Extended Cut. A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know. Not to mention that it doesn't explain how he/she survived in the first place, considering the atmosphere re-entry and being lucky enough to not be hit with a piece of Citadel rubble to begin with.

[element eater]

i suspect bioware didnt want to add a reunion because of time,resources or ability and said it was because they wanted to leave it open as a cop out.

they did say though its open to interpretation so just make up what the hell you want or if it bothers u just give up with it pretty much what ive done

Modifié par element eater, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:15 .

[Reorte]

alsonamedbort wrote...

Oh lolz, you wish.  I'm saying those two things are not conflatable.

But since you asked, I will say this:  context is key.  Why would that scene be in the game at all if not to make it clear that Shepard was alive?

Indeed, I've said several times that that's clearly the intention.  

As for your remarks on the dev comments about there being "hope," you can't say that Twitter shouldn't be required to flesh out the story and then say that the comment from BioWare is proof that there isn't any certainty on the issue.  That's called having your cake and eating it too.

No, it was just questioning whether the devs have even said any more than that.

And finally, as for the whole "hope v. certainty" issue, I concede that there is less certainty in that ending than a lot of people would like.  There is a lot of hope in the fact that Shepard is breathing again on the Citadel.  There is hope in the LI not putting the name on the wall, knowing that Shepard is out there, somewhere.  If you want to believe that Shepard took his/her last breath at that moment on the Citadel, that is certainly your prerogative, but if you choose to believe that, that's the result your own imagination and decision-making, not the result of "bad storytelling."

As I've said before the intention is fairly clear. And for what it's worth my headcanon is that Shepard survives, but it only is headcanon. My point is that, going on just what's in the game and taking it purely at face value, it doesn't add up to anything and hence has to rely on conventions to suggest more, and as a means of conveying a message I personally find it rather unsatisfactory.

[alsonamedbort]

Reorte wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

Oh lolz, you wish.  I'm saying those two things are not conflatable.

But since you asked, I will say this:  context is key.  Why would that scene be in the game at all if not to make it clear that Shepard was alive?

Indeed, I've said several times that that's clearly the intention.  

As for your remarks on the dev comments about there being "hope," you can't say that Twitter shouldn't be required to flesh out the story and then say that the comment from BioWare is proof that there isn't any certainty on the issue.  That's called having your cake and eating it too.

No, it was just questioning whether the devs have even said any more than that.

And finally, as for the whole "hope v. certainty" issue, I concede that there is less certainty in that ending than a lot of people would like.  There is a lot of hope in the fact that Shepard is breathing again on the Citadel.  There is hope in the LI not putting the name on the wall, knowing that Shepard is out there, somewhere.  If you want to believe that Shepard took his/her last breath at that moment on the Citadel, that is certainly your prerogative, but if you choose to believe that, that's the result your own imagination and decision-making, not the result of "bad storytelling."

As I've said before the intention is fairly clear. And for what it's worth my headcanon is that Shepard survives, but it only is headcanon. My point is that, going on just what's in the game and taking it purely at face value, it doesn't add up to anything and hence has to rely on conventions to suggest more, and as a means of conveying a message I personally find it rather unsatisfactory.

That's fair, and I hear you, my only point is that is a subjective opinion—this is and of itself is not objectively bad storytelling.

[Raven4030-2]

Um, Shepard survives the destroy ending and you know it because they send such obvious signals about it. The breath scene, the thing with the memorial, in story telling that's how writers say "HE'S ALIVE! REALLY!" I mean, what do they need? A flashing neon sign?

You guys can argue over which trope this is, as there are several that fit and I'm sure there are more which work (the breath scene is a variant on 'finger twitching revival', the plaque scene 'he's just hiding', the whole thing is 'inferred survival', and depending on how you headcanon it you can say 'never found the body' fits as well):

http://tvtropes.org/...n/HesJustHiding
http://tvtropes.org/...nferredSurvival
http://tvtropes.org/...verFoundTheBody
http://tvtropes.org/...witchingRevival

[Reorte]

alsonamedbort wrote...

That's fair, and I hear you, my only point is that is a subjective opinion—this is and of itself is not objectively bad storytelling.

Cheers. I'll stop there then because it's getting late and I'm very good at getting into arguments and not so good at stopping them from getting nasty, so thanks for understanding.

[IllusiveManJr]

14,812 War Assets and I didn't get the Shepard breathing scene. I might've missed it though.

[Taboo]

No OP.

Jesus Christ no.

See the link in my banner space.

[AnsinJung]

I hate to spoil any appetites thus, but: Tidus

[brandon3990]

The way I see it, Shepard was simply thrown back through conduit similar to the way he was thrown into the citidel. The conduit is still present after the reapers are destroyed, it may be a way of fast transportation to the citidel and back. So the conduit has to work both ways, I don't see why it wouldn't work both ways, right?

[Beeno4Life]

Tiny medigel implants as part of the Lazarus project. Boom.

[jsadalia]

If you're that determined to see the grimmest possible side of that scene, then go ahead. But it makes no narrative sense whatever. You are not watching a documentary.

[Naugi]

Billyg3453 wrote...

I'm not touching the IT part, but personally, we know Bioware wanted to leave the ending open.

1) Squads Alive
2) Shep's Alive.

The clear implication is reunion.

It's amazing how something can be this simple and still the thread has whooshed past this part and is now onto page number 2 of 'but why, but how, but, but , but ....

[Strelsky]

He may not have needed his implants anymore. His body was now back alive. If you get a hole in your arm or get severly cut you don't have that cut or hole in you forever, it will eventually heal. Your body will rebuild itself. Yes, some things will not fully recover, but they will recover a little.

[Tritium315]

You forget that the new Shepard was forged out of badassinium by Cerberus.