177 réponses à ce sujet

[Tietj]

Nobody is arguing that the intention was to show that he survives, they're only saying that the presentation leaves way too much to the imagination. Which I agree with, and before someone accuses me of being lazy for not wanting to headcannon something, it's ridiculous to leave the fate of a character we've spent three games with so ambiguous in the one ending where he isn't shown to have died.

[Lunch Box1912]

How many licks does it take to get an ending of the series.....?
1 - 2 - 3..... 3 

The galaxy may never know.

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[element eater]

Tietj wrote...

Nobody is arguing that the intention was to show that he survives, they're only saying that the presentation leaves way too much to the imagination. Which I agree with, and before someone accuses me of being lazy for not wanting to headcannon something, it's ridiculous to leave the fate of a character we've spent three games with so ambiguous in the one ending where he isn't shown to have died.

this echos my thoughts on the matter

[devSin]

Don't worry. The Keepers are always there, always watching, always working.

I suspect they'll be feeding Shepard into the protein vats before too long. The suffering will soon be at an end.

Modifié par devSin, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:39 .

[adam32867]

Tietj wrote...

Nobody is arguing that the intention was to show that he survives, they're only saying that the presentation leaves way too much to the imagination. Which I agree with, and before someone accuses me of being lazy for not wanting to headcannon something, it's ridiculous to leave the fate of a character we've spent three games with so ambiguous in the one ending where he isn't shown to have died.

i made up the ending in my head, so my only question now is where my cut of the profits are for making the end of mass effect 3.

[adam32867]

devSin wrote...

Don't worry. The Keepers are always there, always watching, always working.

I suspect they'll be feeding Shepard into the protein vats before too long. The suffering will soon be at an end.

hahahahaha, that made my day.

[Lunch Box1912]

But my Reaper is allergic to protein

[barbara2012]

adam32867 wrote...

Tietj wrote...

Nobody is arguing that the intention was to show that he survives, they're only saying that the presentation leaves way too much to the imagination. Which I agree with, and before someone accuses me of being lazy for not wanting to headcannon something, it's ridiculous to leave the fate of a character we've spent three games with so ambiguous in the one ending where he isn't shown to have died.

i made up the ending in my head, so my only question now is where my cut of the profits are for making the end of mass effect 3.

Loooolll tis was really good hahahaha and i agreed 100 %

[Urdnot_Bucdawg]

Once Shepard is dug out and recupersting, he'd better hope they never recover his pistol. Admiral Anderson died of a single gunshot wound to the chest and Shepard's prints are the only ones on that weapon.
That would suck to go from conqueror of the Reapers, curer of the genophage, peacemaker between turian and\\krogan, geth and quarians, only to get courtmartialled for murder. TIM is dead from a self inflicted shot and there'd be no one else to collaberate what really happened and I seriously doubt spacebrat would testify on Shepard's behalf.

[The Spamming Troll]

you guys are idiots.

lazerous project 2.0 + starchild space magic = living shepard for ME4.

its like HELLO, have you guy been playing the games?!?!?!?!?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 juillet 2012 - 01:54 .

[davidshooter]

Tietj wrote...

Nobody is arguing that the intention was to show that he survives, they're only saying that the presentation leaves way too much to the imagination. Which I agree with, and before someone accuses me of being lazy for not wanting to headcannon something, it's ridiculous to leave the fate of a character we've spent three games with so ambiguous in the one ending where he isn't shown to have died.

The breath scene is terribly executed - that is the problem.

The idea itself is fine and is as old as story telling - the hero you thought dead at the end of an epic journey is actually alive against all the odds.  The problem with this scene in ME3 is it follows a scenerio in which the hero should have been killed.  Shep is half dead before he even shoots the tube while walking into the explosion (?) and then we get the exploding Citadel and then finally a breath scene that seems to be back on earth.  This is like Rambo walking out of ground zero of a nuclear blast.

If your hero survives the kind of ordeal that Shepard has survived than people are going to need an explanation as to how the impossible has happened.  If an explanation isn't given than any intelligent viewer is going to assume you didn't explain it because you can't.

Bioware doesn't even know what happened - they just thought a breath scene would be artistic.

[Mavqt]

Urdnot_Bucdawg wrote...

Once Shepard is dug out and recupersting, he'd better hope they never recover his pistol. Admiral Anderson died of a single gunshot wound to the chest and Shepard's prints are the only ones on that weapon.
That would suck to go from conqueror of the Reapers, curer of the genophage, peacemaker between turian andkrogan, geth and quarians, only to get courtmartialled for murder. TIM is dead from a self inflicted shot and there'd be no one else to collaberate what really happened and I seriously doubt spacebrat would testify on Shepard's behalf.

No worries, the Canifex switches to a Predator when the tube blows!

[devSin]

davidshooter wrote...

Bioware doesn't even know what happened - they just thought a breath scene would be artistic.

Yours is the most succinct description I've seen so far for the failure of this sequence.

Kudos.

Modifié par devSin, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[adam32867]

Urdnot_Bucdawg wrote...

Once Shepard is dug out and recupersting, he'd better hope they never recover his pistol. Admiral Anderson died of a single gunshot wound to the chest and Shepard's prints are the only ones on that weapon.
That would suck to go from conqueror of the Reapers, curer of the genophage, peacemaker between turian andkrogan, geth and quarians, only to get courtmartialled for murder. TIM is dead from a self inflicted shot and there'd be no one else to collaberate what really happened and I seriously doubt spacebrat would testify on Shepard's behalf.

hahhahahaha i would love to hear shep explain the whole thing to someone.

[Allan Schumacher]

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

[davidshooter]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

The problem is that believing Shep survived the final events feels ridiculous to many people and without an adequate explanation of how this miracle happened the breath scene plays like an inappropriate lift of a movie cliche.

[devSin]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

But when is it more likely to occur?

When you're alone in the rubble in the dark after an explosion that wrecked the station, somehow taking a breath that indicates nothing other than survival of the blast, or when rescue crews are indicated to have located your ruined body and are onsite to provide medical attention?

The ending asks you to take some tremendous leaps. It sometimes asks too much, and pretending that you magically survive and heal back to normal because they show your desiccated carcass presumably drawing a breath is simply too much.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

You totally broke my English with this statement. I'm not sure what you're saying. What scene?

I will say the memorial sequence is insufficient. It's far too subtle to be successful. You can see it when you know what to look for, but if you're not aware of the variations where the name is actually placed on the wall, it just looks like a moment of apprehension and pain for the person you were closest to.

And then you get the movie of some slab of meat shifting in some unidentifiable darkness, leaving you to wonder if you're supposed to mourn the loss of Shepard or celebrate Shepard's survival (while allowing you to truly do neither).

Modifié par devSin, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:39 .

[ld1449]

davidshooter wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

The problem is that believing Shep survived the final events feels ridiculous to many people and without an adequate explanation of how this miracle happened the breath scene plays like an inappropriate lift of a movie cliche.

Not to mention that the LI has no way of really knowing this is so. There's always been a why for the what in Mass Effect. Its never just come from, as Puerto Ricans say "De La manga productions" in other words out of the sleeve like a magician.

WHY does the LI believe Shepard isn't dead in Destruction? What makes this explosion different besides the explosion to say Control since Synthesis could arguably, alter thought patterns and reasoning enough for the LI to say Sheps dead. But in control the only difference is that the Reapers are docile as opposed to being dead.

So why does the LI cling to Shep being alive in destruction?

Don't get me wrong, if this were a book format it'd be fine. Since destruction would, in a book format be the only ending if this is the one chosen. And emotions don't need to be rational so the LI could be fully justified saying that he/she believes Sheps alive.

But since this isn't a book format and you're clearly showing that a completely different outcome could occur, not only in Sheps decision but in the LI's belief there's no reason that belief doesn't trancend to at the very least, the control ending (synthesis would be out for the aformentioned reasons above)

and given the context of this the LI not believing Sheps dead (conveniently) during the only ending where he's not infact, dead, feels alot like just shoehorning a "good" thing for the sake of putting it in there, since it breaks from the modus operandi of Mass Effect that before the what there's always a why for it.

[adam32867]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

maybe so, but the games are stated to be shepards story and since it has been stated that this is the last one about shepard then it seems like it was cut short, and incomplete. there is a big difference between leaving shep in the arms of his LI, and leaving him alone and bleeding with yet another obstical of survival to overcome.

[spirosz]

The fact that they have to address this on Twitter is sad.

[Ithurael]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

I loved the high EMS Destoy option. It felt the best and the MOST satisfying. You finished with what you set out ot do. Even the nefarious refuse option tickled me pink (finally a promise made true that the Reapers COULD win based on choices lol)

but still. Seeing a torso (with no face) in rubble does not show much (especially after we see andersons name on a wall, the citadel rebuilt, etc When did that "Breath Scene" take place?

Also, TullyAckkland's quote that Shepard Lives - rather - "Shepard Lives" is not encouraging. Anything with Air Quotes immediatly shows that the subject - of the air quotes - is usually a placeholder for sarcasm, irony, satire, or a euphemism. Frankly, the fact that Mr Ackkland's used Air Quotes dismissed any idea/hope I had of Shepard being alive in realistic terms.

Frankly, I think the only reason you - "you" being the devlopers and writers at bioware - kept the breath scene ambiguous is to keep us talking and to add value to the other endings. If you had shown shepard getting up and reunited with LI many may interpret that the Destroy is the canon (or "best ending") to the franchise and you would ruin or devalue the other three endings (control, synthesis, refuse). As well as the fact that you don't want to have Shepard in any other media Post ME3. What better way to remove him than kill him off?  In that matter I say false. Shepard getting up and reuniting with a LI provides not just more closure but also gives us a radically different ending to a franchise that was promised to have radically different endings. At least this time they wouldn't just be "thematically" different but narratively as well.

My imagination is great enough that I can imagine my LI (Liara) reuniting with me in the citadel rubble (though it was rebuilt in the slide show - wait why wasn't shepard found and anderson was?) and lots of blue babies and a safer more free galaxy in the future. Will I ever see that in the game? - no (probably never) Would I pay to? Actually yes very much so. Will I support the Mass Effect Franchise? Yeah. The EC "repaired" in 10 minutes what "bad writing" destroyed in 10 minutes. I am grateful for everything that was done and provided in this franchise and a part of me is truly sad that it is over. I  BioWare but after ME3, I will be a bit more cautious of the games Pre-release - I hope you understand.


Edit: Also, Mr. Hudson wanted a "Bittersweet Ending" the the franchise...so why is Sythesis portrayed as all happy-go lucky awesome? Destroy is the most bittersweet of any (Control is second IMO)

Modifié par Ithurael, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:44 .

[CINCTuchanka]

Shepard reanimated in ME2 after being spaced

BSN: Yeah that makes sense.

Shepard survives an explosion a the end of ME3

BSN: OMG Biowaer that meks no sens, fix it1; omg even if he servives i bet he brain ded

I exaggerate of course, but seriously, of all the things to gripe about the ending, the ambiguity of whether Shepard is alive is not one of them. You can want a reuninon, even if I disagree with that, but come on folks he is alive.

This is not difficult.

Modifié par CINCTuchanka, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:42 .

[Silpheed58]

If a man in a green bucket can survive re-entry, I can believe Shepard survived the boom boom.

[Legion of 1337]

Ok, look, I understand why people want to see more of Shepard after it's established he's alive. We are emotionally attached to the character. We are also emotionally attached to the rest of the crew, enough that we don't like seeing them mourning Shepard - we want everyone to be happy in the end (even though they aren't actually mourning in this ending). Speaks to the writing that we care so much about them. And everyone loves a happy ending. I will admit that a reunion would be emotionally fullfilling.

But you MUST understand - the reason the scene is done that way is to surprise you. To suddenly lift your spirits from the ending being quite bitter-sweet to it being hopeful. Adding a reunion scene could be done, but I think it would detract from the ending's focus on the Galaxy rather than Shepard. After all, ME3 really is about the Galaxy at large, and that is the theme of the ending: Galactic co-operation and understanding.

Of course, you can argue the ending should have been written differently anyway, I'm simply justifying how it is now.

[Ithurael]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Shepard reanimated in ME2 after being spaced

BSN: Yeah that makes sense.

Because We get to see him rebuilt and the process of him being rebuilt. It shows the narrative plot track instead of cutting to black. Imagine if you just see the Normandy blown up and then...Shepard is alive...Lets fight mechs!!

CINCTuchanka wrote...

BSN: OMG Biowaer that meks no sens, fix it1; omg even if he servives i bet he brain ded

I
exaggerate of course, but seriously, of all the things to gripe about
the ending, the ambiguity of whether Shepard is alive is not one of
them. You can want a reuninon, even if I disagree with that, but come
on folks he is alive.

Answer: Speculations...

Answer Pt 2: "Air Quotes"



Though a good reunio DLC in a Year to end ME3 formally would be nice.