177 réponses à ce sujet

[davidshooter]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Shepard reanimated in ME2 after being spaced

was the stupidest moment in the series up to that point.

But, we saw how it happened, as unbelievable as that was, and it was the prologue to the game - so it could be easily forgotten.

Here we have something even more ridiculous (if Shep is back on Earth) as not only the ending to a game, but the final ending for Shepard.

Is it really any wonder people are watching the breath scene and saying WTF????

Modifié par davidshooter, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:53 .

[CINCTuchanka]

Ithurael wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Shepard reanimated in ME2 after being spaced

BSN: Yeah that makes sense.

Because We get to see him rebuilt and the process of him being rebuilt. It shows the narrative plot track instead of cutting to black. Imagine if you just see the Normandy blown up and then...Shepard is alive...Lets fight mechs!!

CINCTuchanka wrote...

BSN: OMG Biowaer that meks no sens, fix it1; omg even if he servives i bet he brain ded

I
exaggerate of course, but seriously, of all the things to gripe about
the ending, the ambiguity of whether Shepard is alive is not one of
them. You can want a reuninon, even if I disagree with that, but come
on folks he is alive.

Answer: Speculations...

Answer Pt 2: "Air Quotes"



Though a good reunio DLC in a Year to end ME3 formally would be nice.

It is true that it shows Shepard coming back to life.  My counter argument is that there isn't really a narrative to surviving an explosion.  You're either dead or not.  But I get your point.

They should release an Extended Extended Cut that shows Shepard being blown back onto some comfy pillows and before it dies the Catalyst gives him some Nutragrain bars so he doesn't starve before help arrives.

Modifié par CINCTuchanka, 06 juillet 2012 - 02:57 .

[Ithurael]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

It is true that it shows Shepard coming back to life.  My counter argument is that there isn't really a narrative to surviving an explosion.  You're either dead or not.  But I get your point.

THANK YOU!!!!!


Speculations...Narrative Coherence...Speculations...MOAR SPECULATIONS!!!!!

[devSin]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

But you MUST understand - the reason the scene is done that way is to surprise you. To suddenly lift your spirits from the ending being quite bitter-sweet to it being hopeful.

And it fails.

If you give it even a moment of thought, you realize just how ludicrous it is. The Citadel is massive. Shepard was in an area where nobody had ever been to. The fleets left the system. The station is in ruins. Earth is in ruins. Shepard is already critically injured. Shepard has no food or water.

Is the moment of surprise you seem to think is there at seeing that Shepard survived (and the scene isn't even all that effective at conveying that, to be honest) worth the lasting doubt as to whether Shepard actually lived?

[Legion of 1337]

devSin wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

But you MUST understand - the reason the scene is done that way is to surprise you. To suddenly lift your spirits from the ending being quite bitter-sweet to it being hopeful.

And it fails.

If you give it even a moment of thought, you realize just how ludicrous it is. The Citadel is massive. Shepard was in an area where nobody had ever been to. The fleets left the system. The station is in ruins. Earth is in ruins. Shepard is already critically injured. Shepard has no food or water.

Is the moment of surprise you seem to think is there at seeing that Shepard survived (and the scene isn't even all that effective at conveying that, to be honest) worth the lasting doubt as to whether Shepard actually lived?

What doubt? I still don't see how there's any doubt. The whole point is to show that he is alive. The arguement we should be having is whether or not it was the right way to do it.

[B.Shep]

The scenes where showed in that way to demonstrate Shepard was alive (LI refuses to put his name on memorial/then Normandy departs/finally the breath scene)

Saying things like he is in a unknown area of the citadel, no one will come to rescue him is just crazy wild especulation...

[davidshooter]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

devSin wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

But you MUST understand - the reason the scene is done that way is to surprise you. To suddenly lift your spirits from the ending being quite bitter-sweet to it being hopeful.

And it fails.

If you give it even a moment of thought, you realize just how ludicrous it is. The Citadel is massive. Shepard was in an area where nobody had ever been to. The fleets left the system. The station is in ruins. Earth is in ruins. Shepard is already critically injured. Shepard has no food or water.

Is the moment of surprise you seem to think is there at seeing that Shepard survived (and the scene isn't even all that effective at conveying that, to be honest) worth the lasting doubt as to whether Shepard actually lived?

What doubt? I still don't see how there's any doubt. The whole point is to show that he is alive. The arguement we should be having is whether or not it was the right way to do it.

Your answer is in the post you quoted.

The doubt comes from the stupidity of the belief he could possibly be alive.

We all know they're trying to say he is - it just feels fake, tacked on because of some misguided attempt to be artistic and as a result is an incredibly poor ending.

[CINCTuchanka]

I think it's important to remember the way the score ties in to the breathe scene in the Extended Cut. There is musical continuity between your crew departing Super Luddite Jungle Planet and the Breath scene. Heavy implication...but the prize....

This means the Breath scene is less of an easter egg and more integral to the plot than before.

In this way I think it is effective. I honestly thought that clarifying this would be a bit cheesy. Actually, in many ways I thought the EC was a bit cheesy. Cheesy in a good way, but it felt a little uneven and conflicting in message. But that is a discussion for another time.

As it is, I think that the way they handled Shepard's survival was one of the best parts of the EC. But that's just me.

[devSin]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

What doubt? I still don't see how there's any doubt. The whole point is to show that he is alive. The arguement we should be having is whether or not it was the right way to do it.

Uh, that's what the argument is.

The scene is a failure. It does not evoke the feeling I presume they intended when I see it.

The doubt is not that they don't want us to think that Shepard lives (although I would be willing to consider that they don't even care, beyond making the briefest of implications and then allowing you to think whatever you want—like davidshooter posted earlier, "Bioware doesn't even know what happened - they just thought a breath scene would be artistic"). The doubt is that Shepard living is not a conclusion that should be reached based on the paltry sequences they gave us.

I want to feel that relief, that surprise and hope that you allude to. Instead, I look at their tepid breath scene and only think "Now what?"

Does that mean that Earth dispatched rescue crews to the Citadel? Does that mean it's all happening internally? Why does the squad know that Anderson died but not know that I'm alive? If the memorial is taking place days or weeks after the crash, does that mean I'm still trapped in rubble, days or weeks later? There's plenty of ways for the scene to unravel. The only way for it to be successful is to simply pretend that it is.

Modifié par devSin, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:13 .

[Legion of 1337]

devSin wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

What doubt? I still don't see how there's any doubt. The whole point is to show that he is alive. The arguement we should be having is whether or not it was the right way to do it.

Uh, that's what the argument is.

The scene is a failure. It does not evoke the feeling I presume they intended when I see it.

The doubt is not that they don't want us to think that Shepard lives (although I would be willing to consider that they don't even care, beyond making the briefest of implications and then allowing you to think whatever you want). The doubt is that Shepard living is not a conclusion that should be reached based on the paltry sequences they gave us.

I want to feel that relief, that surprise and hope that you allude to. Instead, I look at their tepid breath scene and only think "Now what?"

Does that mean that Earth dispatched rescue crews to the Citadel? Does that mean it's all happening internally? Why does the squad know that Anderson died but not know that I'm alive? If the memorial is taking place days or weeks after the crash, does that mean I'm still trapped in rubble, days or weeks later? There's plenty of ways for the scene to unravel. The only way for it to be successful is to simply pretend that it is.

I'll give you that it's quite open-ended. Though I suppose that since Shepard can apparently survive some pretty strong **** (getting spaced, blasted by a reaper beam, etc), I am more inclined to accept his survival.

[Chewy2nd]

Do we know that everyone on the citadel was totally annihilated? It seems likely that Shepard fell with debris to somewhere close to the council tower, survivors probably made the decision to head to the tower and then they find Shepard, and take him to the medical bay, and give him some medigel. There is all sorts of possibilities, do we really have to have Bioware showing every single little detail? I was happy with the high EMS ending.

Let's look at Halo's Legendary ending, did that spell everything out? It was left to our imagination, Chief freezes himself, and he might never be found OR maybe the UNMC turned up a few years later. It was left to our imagination. Well, until they announced Halo 4.

Modifié par Chewy2nd, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:20 .

[comrade gando]

If bioware wanted to imply that shepard lives, then they missed the point entirely. I want CLOSURE, not implications. I know you meant well by this bioware but its just. Not. Good. Enough. I want a REAL ending not a cliff hanger that just leaves me speculatin for four more months or however long it takes for you guys to get it.

[adam32867]

how much of a cure all is medigel? i think the extent if the damage is a bit past the slap on the medigel and walk it off part

[Chewy2nd]

adam32867 wrote...

how much of a cure all is medigel? i think the extent if the damage is a bit past the slap on the medigel and walk it off part

Not much, but it would keep him going until they can give him proper medical attention.

[Dessalines]

I am not sure how Shepard is still alive either, but I am not sure how he survived Harbinger beam whenever other beam kills you in the game. I have been killed by Reaper beam on Tutchanka, The reaper beam on Earth before the charge. The reaper beam on Ramnoch.

[Silpheed58]

Saying anything about events beyond that is speculation and head canon, no proof can be presented other than what the game maker said:
He is alive and can reunite with the crew.

Ones ability to accept that despite poor writing of a scripted scene due to being handicapped because you want to make all three endings equally important, is a personal issue not everyone shares. And just because you have an opinion does not mean you are right.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Because ending a trilogy on a cliffhanger is extremely artistic. It just smacks of writing prowess.

[ralphfromdk]

devSin wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

But you MUST understand - the reason the scene is done that way is to surprise you. To suddenly lift your spirits from the ending being quite bitter-sweet to it being hopeful.

And it fails.

If you give it even a moment of thought, you realize just how ludicrous it is. The Citadel is massive. Shepard was in an area where nobody had ever been to. The fleets left the system. The station is in ruins. Earth is in ruins. Shepard is already critically injured. Shepard has no food or water.

Is the moment of surprise you seem to think is there at seeing that Shepard survived (and the scene isn't even all that effective at conveying that, to be honest) worth the lasting doubt as to whether Shepard actually lived?

Oh s/he lived for sure. No doubt about it.  For a couple of hours maybe. And that's being optimistic about his/her situation. But just like you said, even if Shep survived all that, s/he is now f*cked.

Shot by Harby. Shot by Marauder Shields. Magicly bleeding from shooting Anderson( at this point Shep even passed out from the bloodloss) Tube blowning up in his/her face, plus ekstra random explosions from the Citadel being f'ed up. Now the tech implants fry inside Sheps body. And to finish it off; Citadel rubble falling down on Shep (I'm going with that, seeing as it is a better chance of living than falling back down to earth)

As I've said before, survining all that I can deal with. Shep is the hero after all. Small miracles happe to heroes.
But, after the first "woot, Shep lives, YAY" moment has passed and they don't give any more info, one can only assume what happens now.

After all, they wanted us to speculate.

Shepard lying there alone, bleeding out while coverd in blown up spacestation, and important implants fried to hell. Aaaaaand, black screen. The end.
What a way to end the story. *sigh* YOU DON'T END THE LAST GAME IN A SERIES WITH A CLIFFHANGER!

Slight side note, again, they some how know that Anderson is dead, so they must have found his body right? Or searched for so long that they have given up hope of ever finding the body.  How has no one found Shep? Even some years down the line when the search through the Citadel / rebuild it.
Or is it common practise to start declaring people dead a couple of hours after you haven't heard from them?

[ralphfromdk]

Dessalines wrote...

I am not sure how Shepard is still alive either, but I am not sure how he survived Harbinger beam whenever other beam kills you in the game. I have been killed by Reaper beam on Tutchanka, The reaper beam on Earth before the charge. The reaper beam on Ramnoch.

Yeah, funny thing that beam. One of the first Reapers you see on Earth (one of the smaller ones) blows up a whole damn alliance ship with it's laser. But Shep some how get's up after being hit by a shot from the biggest of all the Reapers? What?

I could have understood it better if it was a tank or something blowing up in close proximity to Shep, but a some what direct hit. Was Harby running out of juice or something? That's why he left?

"oh dang, low battery. Oh well, I guess they are all f'ed up enough now any ways, I'm just gonna leave now before more show up"  *Harby then flies away to find some more AAA batteries*

[Elite Midget]

Didn't you know? A hero surviving an epic journey isn't art.

[Helios969]

davidshooter wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

The problem is that believing Shep survived the final events feels ridiculous to many people and without an adequate explanation of how this miracle happened the breath scene plays like an inappropriate lift of a movie cliche.

As opposed to the more realistic choices of control or synthesis?  Let's face it all endings are pretty ridiculous.

[davidshooter]

Helios969 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

The problem is that believing Shep survived the final events feels ridiculous to many people and without an adequate explanation of how this miracle happened the breath scene plays like an inappropriate lift of a movie cliche.

As opposed to the more realistic choices of control or synthesis?  Let's face it all endings are pretty ridiculous.

Oh hey, I'm with you on all of that too.

[Xilizhra]

Slight side note, again, they some how know that Anderson is dead, so they must have found his body right? Or searched for so long that they have given up hope of ever finding the body.  How has no one found Shep? Even some years down the line when the search through the Citadel / rebuild it.

Actually... there's no sound from the crew in the memorial scene, so what if the LI not adding Shepard's name to the wall wasn't lover's intuition, but getting a comm message to the effect that Shepard had been found and was alive, whereas Anderson had been found dead earlier?

[Simotech]

Elite Midget wrote...

Didn't you know? A hero surviving an epic journey isn't art.

+1 

[riesenwiesel]

Xilizhra wrote...

Slight side note, again, they some how know that Anderson is dead, so they must have found his body right? Or searched for so long that they have given up hope of ever finding the body.  How has no one found Shep? Even some years down the line when the search through the Citadel / rebuild it.

Actually... there's no sound from the crew in the memorial scene, so what if the LI not adding Shepard's name to the wall wasn't lover's intuition, but getting a comm message to the effect that Shepard had been found and was alive, whereas Anderson had been found dead earlier?

Making the breath scene look like it was filmed by camera ("blair witch style") would have helped much in this case, but a pretty good approach so far.