177 réponses à ce sujet

[ralphfromdk]

vallore wrote...

Chewy2nd wrote...

The other endings have room for speculation

Control: Will Reaper-Shepard remain sane? I sincerly doubt that in a few millenia that he will still hold the same ideals as he did back then, the Control ending isn't an out and out "this is how things are now" ending. Also who says the Reaper's wont find some way to break the control?

Synthesis: There is a lot of creepy undertones with this ending, everything in the galaxy is now synthetic, is this a good thing? Machines can easily be broken, hacked or go haywire and EDI, she speaks in a somewhat creepy tone if you ask me, she's not the EDI we once knew. There's a lot of room for speculation.

But nothing like the one where Shepard lives:

In control, you don’t know how it will work on the long run, but you know on the short run.

In Synthesis you don’t know the details of how it works, but you can see it working.

But in survive you don’t even know if she actually survived; you are just guessing. For many of us, no matter how logical the guess is, it is not as satisfying as knowing, to have the image validating it, and there is no logical reason not to go that extra step. If it was, why even bother to show the other results, either?

Yes, that is what I'm missing from the "good" destroy ending. I want to know if Shep lives or dies.
Even though I would like a happy ending, Shep dying wouldn't be all that bad if I just knew that it was the end.
Something simple maybe. Like this:

(this music should be playing through the scene: Vigil aka ME1 titlescreen theme)
A dying Shep lying in the rubble of a semi detroyed Citadel, looking up at Earth that is now free from the Reapers.
Now knowing that s/he saved the galaxy, Shep smiles to him/her-self and closes his/her eyes. 
Slow pan away from Shep letting out a final sigh. Aaaaaand, scene.

And that ladys and gentlemen, is closure for both Shepard and us.

A dead Shepard done right, is better than not knowing at all.

Modifié par ralphfromdk, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[ralphfromdk]

Bioware, please feel free to use the scene from the post above
It wouldn't take a whole lot to make, seeing as there is no voice or anything, just animation.

Plus, it is bitter sweet done right. At least if I understand the term correctly.
"Yay, we won, but wait, I'm dying. But we still won! Oh yeah, still dying. Oh well, at least the Reapers died first."

[jetfire118]

^^^Scene is perfect While the song Great Spirits by 2 steps from hell plays in the background

[ralphfromdk]

jetfire118 wrote...

^^^Scene is perfect While the song Great Spirits by 2 steps from hell plays in the background

Edited the post just for you, but with my own Mass Effect music choise

[Xilizhra]

Actually, I'd much rather have Shepard ambiguously alive than definitely dead. There's nothing worth taking about Destroy if Shepard dies.

[MegaSovereign]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

Exactly.

The scene's narrative purpose is to show that Shepard survives. Headcanoning that Shepard will die minutes later defeats that purpose and renders the scene redundant.

[Vox Draco]

davidshooter wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

The problem is that believing Shep survived the final events feels ridiculous to many people and without an adequate explanation of how this miracle happened the breath scene plays like an inappropriate lift of a movie cliche.

Ridiculous, that's the point. Shepard implied to be alive, all nice and sound...but the way it is implied is just as ridiculous as the normandy-run scene prior to EC and everything else..

So they rebuild the relays, fly around with the Normandy and DON'T put plaques on the memorial wall all the while Shepard is lying around somewhere sometime and nobody looked after he? Only when your LI sees her name on that plaque s/he rmembers "Oh wait, where is Shepard the great love of my life and hero of the galaxy anyway? Could s/he be still alive? After three days/weeks/months/years or so? Let's have a look!"

Seriously, if it was okay to complain about the nonsensical stuff pre-EC it is okay to complain about such things as well

I still have this strange vision in my head of a citadel-caretaker accidentily stumbling across Shepard's remains and dumping it in the nearest garbage-bin. Because this is how I feel Bioware treats their most iconic game-hero with this "implied" survival...

[jetfire118]

ralphfromdk wrote...

jetfire118 wrote...

^^^Scene is perfect While the song Great Spirits by 2 steps from hell plays in the background

Edited the post just for you, but with my own Mass Effect music choise

There were many songs i could play that fitted in with Mass effect. The music in the games were good. Still i would have fun with music if the game had custom sountracks as an option like Dead space did.

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

A piece of Citadel rubble could come crashing down on him/her for all we know.

This could happen regardless of the amount of closure shown.

We could show footage of a reunion... and just not show that Shepard's implants spontaneously explodes killing both of them.

Given that the scene isn't shown coupled with the different scene at the memorial provides a juxtaposition that wouldn't be present unless it was trying to state something different.

No offense, but that's kinda ridiculous.

I mean we knwo what the scene is trying to convey, but its not doing it well.

Yeah Shepard lives, but the scene we have is of Shepard clinging to life alone, in a strange part fo the Citadel, buried in rubble.

But, he's alive, so it's all good? 

[Xilizhra]

Given that Shepard seems to be recovering during the conversation with the Crucible, and that the breath scene takes place after a prolonged time without breathing, I think that Shepard's cybernetic healing powers have gotten to work on her and that, as long as no one else attacks, she'll at least be able to get up and walk soon; she'll probably need rather a lot of medical care thereafter, but won't die so easily.

[ralphfromdk]

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that Shepard seems to be recovering during the conversation with the Crucible, and that the breath scene takes place after a prolonged time without breathing, I think that Shepard's cybernetic healing powers have gotten to work on her and that, as long as no one else attacks, she'll at least be able to get up and walk soon; she'll probably need rather a lot of medical care thereafter, but won't die so easily.

Are you telling me that Shepard is going to live through:

- Being shot by Harby with a laser that is powerfull enough to blow up spaceships.
-suffering from multiple gunshot wounds and bleeding all over the place.
-Having that tube and other bits of the Citadel blow up in his / hers face.
-Having his/hers implants getting fried by the Crucible.
-Getting coverd in rubble from the f'ed up Citadel.

That seems a bit far out. Even for Mass Effect.

[Siansonea]

ralphfromdk wrote...

Even though the IT is still canon in my own head, let's take everything in as shown to us, shall we?

*snip snit*

Bioware wanted me to speculate, and speculate I did. And I don't like the result.

I read this as "I must have a 40-minute denouement that spells out in perfect detail the exact series of events that my character experiences after the climax of the game." I'm sure if they don't have a scene with paramedics reaching Shepard, you'll cry "But how did Shepard get to the hospital?!" If they don't show Shepard IN the hospital, you'll cry "But how did Shepard heal from all those wounds?!" If they don't show a reunion with the LI, you'll exclaim "So Shepard is Forever Alone™ now?!" If we don't get a scene of them bumping uglies, you'll say "Why are they celibate?!" If we don't get a scene of their children being born, you'll complain "Is LI-of-choice barren?!" If we don't get the entire building of the house on Rannoch, from foundation to roof shingles, you'll assume it's not completed or not built, or put there by Space Magic™.

In other words, you have to see EVERY SINGLE THING happening, or you assume something horrible happens. Comics must drive you insane. What's really happening between those panels?!

Modifié par Siansonea II, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .

[Xilizhra]

- Being shot by Harby with a laser that is powerfull enough to blow up spaceships.

Since Shepard wasn't incinerated, it clearly wasn't a direct hit.

-Having his/hers implants getting fried by the Crucible.

The Catalyst implies this, but why trust it? Especially since it doesn't like Destroy.

As for the rest, Shepard can self-heal; it was implied by her initial upgrades and there are more you can buy to aid that throughout ME2.

[TazMonkey2011]

I have to say i had high ems pre EC and chose destroy and got the "breath" sceene so why is everyone so crazy that it is now "all of a sudden there after the EC" it has always been there.

I think it is more likely an oversight by BW in releasing the EC to put all of the extra scenes in there before the Breath scene.

Yet more proof of thier laziness.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that Shepard seems to be recovering during the conversation with the Crucible, and that the breath scene takes place after a prolonged time without breathing, I think that Shepard's cybernetic healing powers have gotten to work on her and that, as long as no one else attacks, she'll at least be able to get up and walk soon; she'll probably need rather a lot of medical care thereafter, but won't die so easily.

So...Shepard is now the Nameless One?

Hmm, thinking about that, impliations unpleasant

[Vox Draco]

To summarize it: The EC gave us the same as we had prior to EC: A lame breathing scene that implied Shepard is alive somehow, so still nobody can give a believable explanation how it happens, or why everyone seems to be okay that Sheaprd is gone and doesn't look for him/her until they see the name on a memorial-plaque again...

Alright, we got it. Shepard alive is of no interest to bioware and many fans, it is all up to headcanon jsut as before EC, only the synthesis and control supporters get their endings spoonfed to them (I love that word, my new favorite beside Disney-Ending! )

At least I don't have to bother downloading the EC, it is the same as before anyway to Sheaprd-fans. Only relay-fans seem to get their closure and clarification it seems

[ralphfromdk]

Xilizhra wrote...

- Being shot by Harby with a laser that is powerfull enough to blow up spaceships.

Since Shepard wasn't incinerated, it clearly wasn't a direct hit.

-Having his/hers implants getting fried by the Crucible.

The Catalyst implies this, but why trust it? Especially since it doesn't like Destroy.

As for the rest, Shepard can self-heal; it was implied by her initial upgrades and there are more you can buy to aid that throughout ME2.

Everything I'm talking about is what we are shown in game, the way Bioware want's us to see them unfold.

As for the implants a have a little example: Synth ending slides shows EDI and Geth well and alive.
They are no where to be seen in my destroy ending. So the kid must have been right. No more implants for Shep.

[Xilizhra]

As for the implants a have a little example: Synth ending slides shows EDI and Geth well and alive.
They are no where to be seen in my destroy ending. So the kid must have been right. No more implants for Shep.

Oh, the Catalyst was partially right. But consider things like its logical zinger with Synthesis being inevitable after the extinction of organics is also inevitable. It doesn't always know what it's talking about.

[Iakus]

Vox Draco wrote...

To summarize it: The EC gave us the same as we had prior to EC: A lame breathing scene that implied Shepard is alive somehow, so still nobody can give a believable explanation how it happens, or why everyone seems to be okay that Sheaprd is gone and doesn't look for him/her until they see the name on a memorial-plaque again...

Alright, we got it. Shepard alive is of no interest to bioware and many fans, it is all up to headcanon jsut as before EC, only the synthesis and control supporters get their endings spoonfed to them (I love that word, my new favorite beside Disney-Ending! )

Pretty much sums it up.  Bioware has little interest in Shepard being alive, thus saw little need to "clarify" (or sponfeed, or whatever term you wanna use) that particular ending.

[TazMonkey2011]

iakus wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

To summarize it: The EC gave us the same as we had prior to EC: A lame breathing scene that implied Shepard is alive somehow, so still nobody can give a believable explanation how it happens, or why everyone seems to be okay that Sheaprd is gone and doesn't look for him/her until they see the name on a memorial-plaque again...

Alright, we got it. Shepard alive is of no interest to bioware and many fans, it is all up to headcanon jsut as before EC, only the synthesis and control supporters get their endings spoonfed to them (I love that word, my new favorite beside Disney-Ending! )

Pretty much sums it up.  Bioware has little interest in Shepard being alive, thus saw little need to "clarify" (or sponfeed, or whatever term you wanna use) that particular ending.

Which is what i was saying
more laziness

[Johnners91]

Believe it or not, some people value (even enjoy) ambiguity. It's often called 'leaving it to the imagination', you may have heard of this, as it's not altogether uncommon. It's not intrinsically a good thing, nor a bad one. It's just one possible way to tell a story. 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Billyg3453 wrote...

I'm not touching the IT part, but personally, we know Bioware wanted to leave the ending open.

1) Squads Alive
2) Shep's Alive.

The clear implication is reunion.

What BioWare meant is irrelevant when not consistent with what we are shown. Ambiguity is only a good narrative tool when you attach it to the proper exposition. We need something to hang our hats on so to speak. The Destroy ending demonstrated a scenario that requires a ridiculous stretch of suspense of disbelief by asking the audience to disregard an explosion triggering in Shepard's face, be it from the Crucible or the subsequent Citadel exploding itself. Never mind falling debris and the possibly Shepard fell to Earth.

What they are asking is completely illogical because there is nothing to suggest Shepard could survive the events as they transpired. Therefore, without exposition there is no ambiguity and we are left with yet another plothole.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Shepard is alive in that ending. Metagaming or not, it says so in the file name, and has been confirmed via twitter.

Yeah, I do not take plot points from twitter. From a game with "75 perfect scores!!!!!!!!!!!!!" I expect consistent storytelling in the actual game. Twitter does not count.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:24 .

[Vox Draco]

Johnners91 wrote...

Believe it or not, some people value (even enjoy) ambiguity. It's often called 'leaving it to the imagination', you may have heard of this, as it's not altogether uncommon. It's not intrinsically a good thing, nor a bad one. It's just one possible way to tell a story. 

Why argue anymore, it is as pointless as the EC, at least for me. But I love the patronizing sound of this post, so I blatantly copy it!

Because some people value (even enjoy) to see the outcome of their actions and fate of their heros. It is often called "actually finishing a story and pay tribute to your own characters without a lazy cliffhanger", you may heard of this. It's not alltogether uncommon, but requires of course a little more thought to it by the writers than just leaving everything open for "imagination". It's not intrinsically a good thing, nor a bad one. It's just one possible way to tell a story.

[Johnners91]

Vox Draco wrote...

Johnners91 wrote...

Believe it or not, some people value (even enjoy) ambiguity. It's often called 'leaving it to the imagination', you may have heard of this, as it's not altogether uncommon. It's not intrinsically a good thing, nor a bad one. It's just one possible way to tell a story. 

Why argue anymore, it is as pointless as the EC, at least for me. But I love the patronizing sound of this post, so I blatantly copy it!

Because some people value (even enjoy) to see the outcome of their actions and fate of their heros. It is often called "actually finishing a story and pay tribute to your own characters without a lazy cliffhanger", you may heard of this. It's not alltogether uncommon, but requires of course a little more thought to it by the writers than just leaving everything open for "imagination". It's not intrinsically a good thing, nor a bad one. It's just one possible way to tell a story.

And what fate should Shepard have had? Apart from a common foe (the Reapers), I suspect my Shepard and your Shepard would have little in common. My Shepard was determined to join the NY Mets, eat Rice Krispies and campaign for the rights of Turian women if he could overcome the Reapers, and who are Bioware to tell me what he might otherwise do afterwards?

Modifié par Johnners91, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:38 .

[Iakus]

Johnners91 wrote...
And what fate should Shepard have had? Apart from a common foe (the Reapers), I suspect my Shepard and your Shepard would have little in common. My Shepard was determined to join the NY Mets, eat Rice Krispies and campaign for the rights of Turian women if he could overcome the Reapers, and who are Bioware to tell me what he might otherwise do afterwards?

What fate?

Found by an Alliance rescue team

Waking up in a hospital, possibly with Joker or a LI looking in on you.

What Shepard does with the rest of his/her life afterwards can be speculated all you like.  but for now, the first step is confirming Shepard gets off the Citadel alive.