53 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

There is an argument on another forum where many people are telling a guy he cheated or exploited the game by setting a bunch of explosives on the ground where the high dragon lands to kill it instantly. Would you, the ones who made the game, consider this cheating?

[aerathnor]

I like this tactic, is there a video to support it? I think it would be a blast to see.

[Darpaek]

Ever kill a Krayt? =P

[andy6915]

Here's the topic. I just want a Bioware developer to come along and answer, then I can link to this topic, and end the debate.

http://www.gamefaqs....&topic=52664368

[Adria Teksuni]

I've used it. It's along the lines of setting a bunch of mines where you know the Mandalorians are going to pop up on Dantooine in KoTOR.



Unlike KoTOR, it doesn't make my XBOX freeze up when I set too many.



I don't see it as cheating or an exploit. Cheap, maybe, but not cheating or an exploit.

[whtnyte-raernst]

I agree, if the game allows you to do it, and you didn't modify the game to allow it. how is it cheating? On of the big points of the game is TACTICAL RPG. Sounds like someone figured out a pretty effective tactic to me!

[Darpaek]

Dragon killing in PnP is really a big a deal. Setting traps would be just the beginning. The only way you successfully kill a dragon in PnP is to choose and control the battlefield yourself.



It's a shame that the final boss is such a push-over. You should run up to him and get wiped. You should have to use every cheese tactic in the book to win the fight.



I don't understand why he just doesn't fly away when he gets hurt.

[mmu1]

If it requires you to see what the enemy does, then reload to exploit the knowledge that it'll stupidly do the same thing when you play  through that section again, it's not much of a "tactic", except in the most literal sense of the world. In which case, "cleverly" figuring out what cheats to use  is a also a "tactic".

Real tactical gameplay might require that you learn through some trial and error, if failure = character death, but once you become proficient, it should become a matter of how clever you can be, not of how dumb the enemies are.

Modifié par mmu1, 16 décembre 2009 - 04:16 .

[Fleapants]

Luring a dragon into a pile of traps?

That plan is so cunning that you can pin a tail on it and call it a weasel!

[Faerell Gustani]

Darpaek wrote...

I don't understand why he just doesn't fly away when he gets hurt.

(edit: spoiler removed by moderator, thanks to person who pointed it out)
I don't have an excuse for the High Dragon though.  They're arrogant?  Fairly standard for "dragon" lore of any fantasy setting.

As for the tactic of setting traps...I think it's perfectly valid.  Traps take time and money to produce.  What's the difference between chugging healing pots and using injury kits versus well placed traps?
I mean, I can probably beat the dragon and spend less on consumables simply be exercising my conventional combat abilities.  So if you want to throw money at the problem then you're welcome to it.  I'll end the game with more money to drop on Redcliffe soldiers and more supplies to give to my followers...thus more XP.

All fair to me.  Risk  to reward ratio and all.

Modifié par Torias, 16 décembre 2009 - 10:11 .

[Darpaek]

It doesn't stop him from flying all over the battlefield. And he doesn't actually have to fly away, so much as "glide down".

[whtnyte-raernst]

The archdemon is there with the goal of wiping out armies. I doubt it even entered it's thought process that a little 4 member team could possibly kill it.

[CJohnJones]

Fleapants wrote...

Luring a dragon into a pile of traps?
That plan is so cunning that you can pin a tail on it and call it a weasel!

Thank you, Baldrick.


I did this the first time, right out of the box, without seeing where "Andraste" would land. She kind of didn't want to follow but once I got her to the minefield I had laid she dropped fast. I got the idea because I had killed the minidragon in the Brecilian ruins with traps laid by my scouting rogue. By the end I wound up killing a lot of bosses with traps (Cauthrien in particular), and really wished there had been more materials (metal shards in particular) to make more.

Really, isn't that the smart tactic? You are the one blowing the horn that summons her. In a slightly more real situation she would come right to you rather than landing in that one spot and then waddling over. you would then be able to pick the location of your fight. Since the game doesn't allow that bit of realism, looking at where that spot will be is the next best thing.


Edit: Bah. I see now that they mean the Archdemon. Still, it is a funny way to whack the baddie. Since the Archdemon is a pushover (like the end bosses in most games)  anyway I am not sure that it is a big deal.

Modifié par CJohnJones, 16 décembre 2009 - 04:31 .

[Darpaek]

Bleh.



Dragon "arrogance" is the real CRPG cheese to explain crappy badguys. At least back in the day, Bio used to hide their dragons in caves or at the bottom of dungeons. Attacking a dragon without proper prep should always be a massive failure. He just get away and spend the rest of the campaign hunting you down. I remember this dragon in a PnP campaign that we raided his lair and he escaped and we stole his loot and the dragon spent the rest of the campaign hunting us down and ****ing with us. We must have fought him off a dozen times before we finally got him. We were hiding out in caves in the middle of nowhere after awhile. We'd sleep in an inn and the dragon would burn down the inn around us. We'd show up at a new town and they'd turn us away at the gates based on rep, "Nope. Your those adventurers Agni's been chasing around the countryside! We don't want your trouble here!" Eventually we gave up on the DM's intended "big villain" for the campaign to go off into the mountains to hunt this bastard down once and for all.



Firekraag has to be the best dragon I've ever seen in a CRPG that reminds me the most of a PnP dragon.

[Lord Phoebus]

It worked fine in BG2 too. Not so well in NWN 1/2 because the DCs on traps were horrible. Though Electrical Traps on the Skeleton Blackguard in SoU was a common tactic. All's fair in love and war, so use traps whenever possible to make a tough fight easier.

[bobtheworm]

CJohnJones wrote...

Really, isn't that the smart tactic? You are the one blowing the horn that summons her. In a slightly more real situation she would come right to you rather than landing in that one spot and then waddling over. you would then be able to pick the location of your fight. Since the game doesn't allow that bit of realism, looking at where that spot will be is the next best thing.


Edit: Bah. I see now that they mean the Archdemon. Still, it is a funny way to whack the baddie. Since the Archdemon is a pushover (like the end bosses in most games)  anyway I am not sure that it is a big deal.

The First time I fought the High Dragon Andraste I called her out in the open and before she landed and killed the main character she managed to pick up every other character I had killed them quickly.

The First time I fought the Archdemon I was wiped out when the Archdemon landed on the island and dark spawn swarmed the battle. Then I learn that I could summon troops and the darkspawn then became more of an annoyance than a problem.

I can't wait to fight the Archdemon with my Elementalist. I am going to drop a world of AoE hurt. on him when he goes to the Island.

You want to know tactic. Walk up to a closed door and stand to the side of it. Open the door and cast Inferno. Then Cast no casting time Earthquake to slow their chase time. Last Drop a Tempest a little closer to you so they have to run through that also. Most baddies are dead and mostly dead before they reach you. Any higher levels that survive, Petrify and Stonefist. If more than one survives, Cone of Cold and Stonefist. Elementalist own!

[whtnyte-raernst]

Darpaek wrote...

Bleh.

Dragon "arrogance" is the real CRPG cheese to explain crappy badguys. At least back in the day, Bio used to hide their dragons in caves or at the bottom of dungeons. Attacking a dragon without proper prep should always be a massive failure. He just get away and spend the rest of the campaign hunting you down. I remember this dragon in a PnP campaign that we raided his lair and he escaped and we stole his loot and the dragon spent the rest of the campaign hunting us down and ****ing with us. We must have fought him off a dozen times before we finally got him. We were hiding out in caves in the middle of nowhere after awhile. We'd sleep in an inn and the dragon would burn down the inn around us. We'd show up at a new town and they'd turn us away at the gates based on rep, "Nope. Your those adventurers Agni's been chasing around the countryside! We don't want your trouble here!" Eventually we gave up on the DM's intended "big villain" for the campaign to go off into the mountains to hunt this bastard down once and for all.

Firekraag has to be the best dragon I've ever seen in a CRPG that reminds me the most of a PnP dragon.

Now THAT'S funny! I'd love to see a dragon behave that way in this game. A real choice "Do I risk pissing off this dragon and having him chase me until I'm strong enough to kill him, or make nice and befriend him?"

[Darpaek]

Growing up, that's just how dragons were. They were old, wicked smart, with lotsa loot and magic, and they had no qualms spending a paltry human lifetime seeking revenge during their millenia of life. "Dragon arrogance" didn't even factor into the equation.



They weren't badass simply because they were piles of hitpoints with massive AoEs - that was just the gravy on their otherwise badassness.

[adam_nox]

It really depends on the definition of cheating, so you'll never end the debate, because bioware isn't going to define that for you.



It's cheap.



It's dumb.



It's likely something the devs didn't really consider and would have prevented otherwise.



You decide if that makes it cheating.

[Eurypterid]

Darpaek wrote...

Firekraag has to be the best dragon I've ever seen in a CRPG that reminds me the most of a PnP dragon.

The irony being you could drop him with traps too.

Oh, and Spoilers, people.

[Original182]

I used this tactic in Baldur's Gate II : Throne of Bhaal against all bosses. It's cheesy and seems overpowered, but I think it's meant to be used that way.

So no I don't think it's an exploit. Bioware has made games in the past that allowed this to happen, so you can safely assume that if it's possible in Dragon Age, they allow it on purpose.

[Darpaek]

Eurypterid wrote...

Oh, and Spoilers, people.

Sorry! 

This thread should have been in the Campaign Spoilers forum from the beginning.

[Dark83]

Knowing where they drop (metagame knowledge) would be a metagame tactic. Luring enemies into traps is just a tactic. I suppose you could call it an exploit (via metagame knowledge), but it's hardly cheating. If you knew you were going to be charged at by a rhino, wouldn't you set traps in the way?

[whtnyte-raernst]

I wouldn't call it a "cheap" tactic.

To pull it off, you have to have a character with a high enough trap making skill, gather all the materials, build the traps, plant the traps, then by in the right place to lure said monster into the traps.