154 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

agu123 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Javik is as racist as Ashley, yet people love him for some reason.

Kinda galling to defend this Disk Locked Charater, but this kind of kneejerk reactions seem so misguided that guess I'll have to say something. If we take the attitudes towards alien species as a stand-in for real world "racial" attitudes, do you think the point might have something to do with understanding where these kind of attitudes come from, instead of just labeling them "POLITICALLY UNACCEPTABLE" or monstrous, and thus gaining some insight into how to counter them with reasoned argument?

Please tell me where and when I labeled them "politically unacceptable" and "monstrous". Because I really want to see those statements.

Perhaps, I was just saying that if you dislike Ashley for being racist then you should understand Javik isn't really different?

And about gaining some insight on how to counter them: you don't need to do that. EDI does it in-game when Javik goes to the AI core and starts the "machines can't evolve because they're machines" argument.

Perhaps that was your point. I don't mean to single you out on this. But I have seen a lot of those kind of comments around. As for the insight bit, it was more based on the player gaining some insight, since ME is somewhat didactic.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:32 .

[DRTJR]

Javik, like Wrex and Zaeed before him, has a permanent place in the squad. I wish I had Wrex and Zaeed to interact with Javik.

[Ryzaki]

agu123 wrote...

Javik is as racist as Ashley, yet people love him for some reason.

Javik has a better sense of humor. If Ashley wasn't such a stick in the mud (and was actually racist towards pretty much everyone like Javik is.) and being picky about whose head to bite off. I'd like her more. Javik is also very blunt about his discrimination. He doesn't try to sugarcoat it.

(That and I don't see Ashley as racist anyway. Just...very very misguided).

[Ar7emis]

Javik is a fresh new face in the series and one of my favourite characters. He's the character that shoots down all your preconceptions, that's what I like - the Protheans were not peaceful aliens living by a romanticised idyllic culture, they were space Romans who dominated other races and inducted them under the name of 'Prothean'.

Also, his reason for still being alive is explained and makes perfect sense. The Protheans planned to awaken after the Reapers left and nurture the next Cycle into a militaristic society in order to finally defeat the Reapers, however, like on Ilos, power shortages led to a triage of the remaining personnel which meant that Javik (as the 'voice' of his people) was left alive. Makes sense to me and is honestly an interesting way to introduce his character.

As has already been said:

[kevchy]

You didn't recruit him? Well, good for you.

I'll always want that Prothean Particle Rifle.

[agu123]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

agu123 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

agu123 wrote...

Javik is as racist as Ashley, yet people love him for some reason.

Kinda galling to defend this Disk Locked Charater, but this kind of kneejerk reactions seem so misguided that guess I'll have to say something. If we take the attitudes towards alien species as a stand-in for real world "racial" attitudes, do you think the point might have something to do with understanding where these kind of attitudes come from, instead of just labeling them "POLITICALLY UNACCEPTABLE" or monstrous, and thus gaining some insight into how to counter them with reasoned argument?

Please tell me where and when I labeled them "politically unacceptable" and "monstrous". Because I really want to see those statements.

Perhaps, I was just saying that if you dislike Ashley for being racist then you should understand Javik isn't really different?

And about gaining some insight on how to counter them: you don't need to do that. EDI does it in-game when Javik goes to the AI core and starts the "machines can't evolve because they're machines" argument.

Perhaps that was your point. I don't mean to single you out on this. But I have seen a lot of those kind of comments around. As for the insight bit, it was more based on the player gaining some insight, since ME is somewhat didactic.

Alright, I guess my first post was too vague.

I wasn't saying that I hate Ashley and Javik because of their racism.

I have noticed on these forums, that some people seem to love Javik because he's essentially an elitist a-hole.
I have also noticed, that the same people seem to hate Ashley because "she's a narrow-minded racist".

By interacting with them, it's easy to understand they have reasons to behave the way they do. I'm not slapping any "monster" label on them.

I hope it's clear now.

[Cutlass Jack]

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

1) Buy Squadmate DLC
2) Not recruit said Squadmate
3) ???
4) Profit

[Ar7emis]

I'm not really sure why racism is being used as an excuse to hate Javik... Tali is racist and has been in 3 whole games, yet as a character she's been the galvanising figure of the cult of Talimancers. Yet Javik is infinitely more interesting than that rag-doll of a character.

[Sweawm]

I think the DLC was worth it (In the Collectors Edition at least), because they went to the effort to really make Javik a unique character.

[savionen]

You're a racist for not getting Javik.

[Sweawm]

Ar7emis wrote...

I'm not really sure why racism is being used as an excuse to hate Javik... Tali is racist and has been in 3 whole games, yet as a character she's been the galvanising figure of the cult of Talimancers. Yet Javik is infinitely more interesting than that rag-doll of a character.

I think that's because there was a reason to hate instead of Ash and Javik's simple dislike for others.
And it started when you could totally agree because in ME1, Geth did nothing but shoot at you and set traps. There was a total reason for this character to hate Geth.

Javik? Well, he's Javik. Primtives simply do not understand. 

[MoonsKisu]

At first I really didn't care too much for Javik but he's kinda grown on me. I don't view him as vital to my game but he is a good addition.

[Peregrin25]

Ar7emis wrote...

Javik is a fresh new face in the series and one of my favourite characters. He's the character that shoots down all your preconceptions, that's what I like - the Protheans were not peaceful aliens living by a romanticised idyllic culture, they were space Romans who dominated other races and inducted them under the name of 'Prothean'.

Also, his reason for still being alive is explained and makes perfect sense. The Protheans planned to awaken after the Reapers left and nurture the next Cycle into a militaristic society in order to finally defeat the Reapers, however, like on Ilos, power shortages led to a triage of the remaining personnel which meant that Javik (as the 'voice' of his people) was left alive. Makes sense to me and is honestly an interesting way to introduce his character.

As has already been said:

Damn straight! lol

[Casticus]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

No I did. It felt completely contrived and out of place. Just like Javik is in every situation.

[Ridwan]

Troll thread or the thread starter likes to burn money away.

[JBPBRC]

Casticus wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

No I did. It felt completely contrived and out of place. Just like Javik is in every situation.

By that logic one should just stop playing Mass Effect 3, as the Starchild, Reapers and Cerberus are also completely contrived in every situation.

[Casticus]

M25105 wrote...

Troll thread or the thread starter likes to burn money away.

I didn't know Javik was going to be terrible when I bought. For the record I no longer play Overlord either, because that was garbage as well.

[ElementL09]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

[Casticus]

JBPBRC wrote...

Casticus wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

No I did. It felt completely contrived and out of place. Just like Javik is in every situation.

By that logic one should just stop playing Mass Effect 3, as the Starchild, Reapers and Cerberus are also completely contrived in every situation.

Right. The main villains feel contrived.

[JBPBRC]

Casticus wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Casticus wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Anyone who doesnt love Javik clearly never brought him to Thessia.

No I did. It felt completely contrived and out of place. Just like Javik is in every situation.

By that logic one should just stop playing Mass Effect 3, as the Starchild, Reapers and Cerberus are also completely contrived in every situation.

Right. The main villains feel contrived.

Cerberus instantly turning on you no matter how helpful or unhelpful you were in ME2?
The Reapers losing all sanity and logic and just bumrushing individual planets instead of the Citadel?
Starchild's existence?

Yeah. Contrived.

[Ageless Face]

BioWare's biggest mistake of ME3:

Not make Javik romanceable.


No way I'll not recruit that 50,000 years old Prothean.

[Casticus]

JBPBRC....
Cerberus instantly turning on you no matter how helpful or unhelpful you were in ME2?
The Reapers losing all sanity and logic and just bumrushing individual planets instead of the Citadel?
Starchild's existence?

Yeah. Contrived.

The difference is that the very existence of Javik is contrived, not just his actions. It was predictable that Cerberus would become an enemy considering, that there is a possibility to end on less ideal terms with them, and the shadowy history and presentation of that organization throughout ME and ME2.

However, every time I look at Javik I have to ask myself why and how he's here.

[JBPBRC]

Casticus wrote...

However, every time I look at Javik I have to ask myself why and how he's here.

Because Prothean stasis technology is awesome, something shown to us as far back as the first Mass Effect thanks to Vigil. So long as there is power and a healthy Prothean, those stasis pods can keep them alive practically forever.

That and the Reapers have been shown not to be the best in cleaning up after themselves. They miss lots of things. Javik, Ilos, that one Reaper that was dead for millions of years, Prothean beacons carrying a warning about the Reapers, etc.

[Zardoc]

Why do all people with Udina as picture act like obnoxious trolls?

JBPBRC wrote...



That and the Reapers have been shown not to be the best in cleaning up after themselves. They miss lots of things. Javik, Ilos, that one Reaper that was dead for millions of years, Prothean beacons carrying a warning about the Reapers, etc.

 

They "missed" Javik because he was in an underground bunker and the rest of the protheans present had been wiped out by the energy (or whatever that was) surge Victory had initiated. Ilos and the base on it were wiped from all records, so it's natural the Reapers didn't know about it. Leaving a "dead" Reaper behind is actually a smart move, considering that it can still indoctrinate the people trying to investigate and study it. Just saying.

Also, prothean stasis pods aren't actually that effective, considering the vast amount of energy they seem to require.

Modifié par Zardoc, 06 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .