109 réponses à ce sujet

[N-Seven]

shodiswe wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

I can't say natzey even in its correct terminology?

I've never understood the need to block things that might offend people, it's better to talk about things than let it brood. It's like telling people "Let's forget history", There is nothing to learn here.

There are lots of people in history who did all kinds of stupid thing and misstakes... By hiding it and trying to forget you learn nothing. Hitler never learned from Napoleon or any of the other conquerors.
One after another they fought the whole world, spread their force too thin, then they were easily wiped out. Sometimes im amazed at how hard it is for people to learn from the past.

Maybe the problem I got with people is that I think and opperate on Logos rather than gut feeling and blind emotions.

Yes but a video game forum isn't really the ideal place for history lectures.   And we have to remember this is Bioware's board, not necessarily an open, public board - they want to keep their backyard clean and trouble free and have every right to do so.

On that note, it annoys me - and I'm not aiming this at you or anyone specificially -  that there is a trend to draw parallels between tragic events in human history/or sex crimes, and the endings...and then by further extension, insist that  proponents of these endings (or Bioware themselves) support these real-life evils.  It's cheap and disgusting.

e.g. "The synthesis ending is like RAPE!  This means Bioware supports rape, and if you like this ending that means you are in support of  rape!"

e.g. "The destroy ending is genocide!  If you support destroy, you support Hitler's final solution!  I can't believe Bioware would put this ending into the game!   BIOWARE is RACIST!"  (I got into a heated argument about this one the other month)

e.g. "Why are you negotiating with the Catalyst!  He's a terrorist!  If you negotiate with terrorists, that's a slap in the face to the victims of 911, etc"

'Push button emotion'  debate tactics.  And likely a lot of it being used by folk who have never experienced real rape, racism, terrorism, or war...to win an argument about a video game, or to villainize the maker of the game.   It's mollifying.

[DocGriffin]

N-Seven wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

I can't say natzey even in its correct terminology?

I've never understood the need to block things that might offend people, it's better to talk about things than let it brood. It's like telling people "Let's forget history", There is nothing to learn here.

There are lots of people in history who did all kinds of stupid thing and misstakes... By hiding it and trying to forget you learn nothing. Hitler never learned from Napoleon or any of the other conquerors.
One after another they fought the whole world, spread their force too thin, then they were easily wiped out. Sometimes im amazed at how hard it is for people to learn from the past.

Maybe the problem I got with people is that I think and opperate on Logos rather than gut feeling and blind emotions.

Yes but a video game forum isn't really the ideal place for history lectures.   And we have to remember this is Bioware's board, not necessarily an open, public board - they want to keep their backyard clean and trouble free and have every right to do so.

On that note, it annoys me - and I'm not aiming this at you or anyone specificially -  that there is a trend to draw parallels between tragic events in human history/or sex crimes, and the endings...and then by further extension, insist that  proponents of these endings (or Bioware themselves) support these real-life evils.  It's cheap and disgusting.

e.g. "The synthesis ending is like RAPE!  This means Bioware supports rape, and if you like this ending that means you are in support of  rape!"

e.g. "The destroy ending is genocide!  If you support destroy, you support Hitler's final solution!  I can't believe Bioware would put this ending into the game!   BIOWARE is RACIST!"  (I got into a heated argument about this one the other month)

e.g. "Why are you negotiating with the Catalyst!  He's a terrorist!  If you negotiate with terrorists, that's a slap in the face to the victims of 911, etc"

'Push button emotion'  debate tactics.  And likely a lot of it being used by folk who have never experienced real rape, racism, terrorism, or war...to win an argument about a video game, or to villainize the maker of the game.   It's mollifying.

I agree it's wrong to draw connections between the parallels and BioWare somehow supporting them, but ignoring the parallel altogether doesn't help anything.

Destroy, for one, is in fact a genocide. It wipes out a race of sentient beings.

[darkpassenger2342]

destroy also wipes everyone out 50,000 years into the future anyway.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[Ring1]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

destroy also wipes everyone out 50,000 years into the future anyway.

Why does destroy wipe everyone out in 50,000 years?

[Ageless Face]

I can tell you OP, as a jew, that we forgave the germans after WW2. We all know what happened during the holocaust. We will never forget what happened. Some will never forgive. But the germans are not the same as the n@zis. The reapers will not be the same.

At first people won't accept the help of the reapers. But they will eventually acknowlage their help. They will never forget what was done to them. Some will never forgive until their death. But the galactic community will eventually move on.

There will be a lot of angry orphans. But is there a need to add more death, the Geth and EDI? Should we kill the reapers, all of them, when they, in the future, could help the galaxy to save more lives?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:41 .

[darkpassenger2342]

Ring1 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

destroy also wipes everyone out 50,000 years into the future anyway.

Why does destroy wipe everyone out in 50,000 years?

because if you destroy the reapers you are destroying the reason they were created, which in turn sets humanity back to zero. they will grow, create synthetics, and organics and synthtics will destroy each other..
then someone willl create reapers.. then an indefinite amount of cycles later, someone might get the chance to make the choice again. If you destroy the reapers, the cycle doesnt continue, nor end, it starts over from ground zero.
 this isnt me guessing, the catalyst tells us this.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:46 .

[Pantegana]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Ring1 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

destroy also wipes everyone out 50,000 years into the future anyway.

Why does destroy wipe everyone out in 50,000 years?

because if you destroy the reapers you are destroying the reason they were created, which in turn sets humanity back to zero. they will grow, create synthetics, and organics and synthtics will destroy each other..
then someone willl create reapers.. then an indefinite amount of cycles later, someone might get the chance to make the choice again. If you destroy the reapers, the cycle doesnt continue, nor end, it starts over from ground zero.
 this isnt me guessing, the catalyst tells us this.

Catalyst. Is that you?

[darkpassenger2342]

the kid says if you destroy the reapers the cycle begins anew.
your sarcasm doesnt alter that.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:53 .

[Pantegana]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the kid says if you destroy the reapers the cycle begins anew. sarcasm or not.
i love how people think they can discredit facts with one smartass rebuttal.

Well you're the one who believes a guy who controls your enemy and who proposes alternate solutions to the annihilation of your enemy...when you're just about to annihilate them <_<
The catalyst is just as trustworthy as the average politician.

[darkpassenger2342]

thats your opinion isnt it.
the kid is a program.
designed by organics
to protect organics from themselves..

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .

[Ageless Face]

Pantegana wrote...
Well you're the one who believes a guy who controls your enemy and who proposes alternate solutions to the annihilation of your enemy...when you're just about to annihilate them <_<
The catalyst is just as trustworthy as the average politician.

I don't know if you're insulting politicians... Or the catalyst 

[darkpassenger2342]

Pantegana wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the kid says if you destroy the reapers the cycle begins anew. sarcasm or not.
i love how people think they can discredit facts with one smartass rebuttal.

Well you're the one who believes a guy who controls your enemy and who proposes alternate solutions to the annihilation of your enemy...when you're just about to annihilate them <_<
The catalyst is just as trustworthy as the average politician.

 when you are involved in a story, you choose from within the story.
telling the kid "nuh uh, youre evil" wasnt a choice was it?
unless you want to give up and die
if you dont like the options thats a different argument..

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:59 .

[Pantegana]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

thats your opinion isnt it.
the kid is a program.
designed by organics
to protect organics from themselves..

The kid tell's you he's a program designed by organics.
The kid tell's you his purpose is to protect organic from themselves.
You have no mean to assess the truth of his statements.

The Geth-Quarian events in fact seem to disprove it. Add to that that the Geth attacked the organics (ME1) because the Reapers forced them to do so.
Now he's out there to protect organics from synthetics not only by killing organics but even by having synthetics kill organics.
And by having organics kill each other if you consider the Rachni wars too.
C'mon.

[Ring1]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

because if you destroy the reapers you are destroying the reason they were created, which in turn sets humanity back to zero. they will grow, create synthetics, and organics and synthtics will destroy each other..
then someone willl create reapers.. then an indefinite amount of cycles later, someone might get the chance to make the choice again. If you destroy the reapers, the cycle doesnt continue, nor end, it starts over from ground zero.
 this isnt me guessing, the catalyst tells us this.

Doesn't that assume that time will always progress in a linear fashion?

Doesn"t the council have restrictions in place about the research into AI? Even though the Geth, depending on your story, became peaceful does that erase the previous hundrends of years of conflict?

It seems instead that the restrictions on AI research may prevent the re-creation of the Geth or other synthetics and that would break this supposed continuous cycle. It seems that the galaxy instead would be set to the point right before the point of the original creation of the Geth with the knowledge of what could potentially happen.

From the way the destroy ending played out it seems that the species are not necessarly set back to zero but still able to function. If they were set back to zero would they be able to repair the mass relays?

Of course some of that is speculation.

Modifié par Ring1, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:04 .

[darkpassenger2342]

i dont see how you people can play through 3 games and constantly use it as fact to discredit the last 15 minutes.. its absurd
there is no indication that he is lying, other than people making it up..
it is a computer program that has been waiting for you for a possible millenia.

[Pantegana]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

i dont see how you people can play through 3 games and constantly use it as fact to discredit the last 15 minutes.. its absurd
there is no indication that he is lying, other than people making it up..
it is a computer program that has been waiting for you for a possible millenia.

Yeah, no reason for him to lie when you're about to pick "destory" and kill him. Who would lile in such a situation. Silly me

[DocGriffin]

Pantegana wrote...

The kid tell's you he's a program designed by organics.
The kid tell's you his purpose is to protect organic from themselves.
You have no mean to assess the truth of his statements.

It's a videogame. They didn't write that in to be a secret sub-plot. They gave you a backstory, the writers had no reason to write a fake back story to throw you off from picking certain choices. 

Step outside of the Mass Effect universe for a second and look at the game for what it is. 

[darkpassenger2342]

Ring1 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

because if you destroy the reapers you are destroying the reason they were created, which in turn sets humanity back to zero. they will grow, create synthetics, and organics and synthtics will destroy each other..
then someone willl create reapers.. then an indefinite amount of cycles later, someone might get the chance to make the choice again. If you destroy the reapers, the cycle doesnt continue, nor end, it starts over from ground zero.
 this isnt me guessing, the catalyst tells us this.

Doesn't that assume that time will always progress in a linear fashion?

Doesn"t the council have restrictions in place about the research into AI? Even though the Geth, depending on your story, became peaceful does that erase the previous hundrends of years of conflict?

It seems instead that the restrictions on AI research may prevent the re-creation of the Geth or other synthetics and that would break this supposed continuous cycle. It seems that the galaxy instead would be set to the point right before the point of the original creation of the Geth with the knowledge of what could potentially happen.

From the way the destroy ending played out it seems that the species are not necessarly set back to zero but still able to function. If they were set back to zero would they be able to repair the mass relays?

Of course some of that is speculation.

we cannot assume anything, the starchild tells us the cycle will repeat. he knows better than we do, he was witness to the cycles. the cycle is
Life > creation> death
 anything after that is speculating
 when he says the cycle will continue hes not doing it with ulterior motives.
we know this because if that was true we would have other choices, but we do not.
no the war reconciliation b/w quarians and geth will not last because they can never understand each other.
the starchild tells us this.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:08 .

[The Angry One]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

i dont see how you people can play through 3 games and constantly use it as fact to discredit the last 15 minutes.. its absurd
there is no indication that he is lying, other than people making it up..
it is a computer program that has been waiting for you for a possible millenia.

"But you killed the rest." "We helped them ascend."

"The Crucible changed me." "The Crucible is little more than a power source."

The Catalyst lies to your face. It lies about not killing organics while taking the form of an organic it killed. It lies about the Crucible. It lies about the nature of synthesis. It uses a facade to disarm Shepard.

Also.. oh yeah, IT'S A REAPER. The masters of corruption, deception and manipulation.

[The Angry One]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...
we cannot assume anything, the starchild tells us the cycle will repeat. he knows better than we do, he was witness to the cycles. the cycle is
Life > creation> death
 anything after that is speculating
 when he says the cycle will continue hes not doing it with ulterior motives.
we know this because if that was true we would have other choices, but we do not.

Appeal to authority. I will not base my decisions on what the enemy SAYS is so especially when the events of the games contradict it multiple times.
If it's happened so damn much, it can provide proof.

[darkpassenger2342]

the starchild is not a liar. it is a program. created by organics with a purpose.
enemy is a relative term. you are offered the choice to no longer be enemies.
synthesis is a treaty, a marraige between infinitely warring kingdoms.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:12 .

[Pantegana]

DocGriffin wrote...

Pantegana wrote...

The kid tell's you he's a program designed by organics.
The kid tell's you his purpose is to protect organic from themselves.
You have no mean to assess the truth of his statements.

It's a videogame. They didn't write that in to be a secret sub-plot. They gave you a backstory, the writers had no reason to write a fake back story to throw you off from picking certain choices. 

Step outside of the Mass Effect universe for a second and look at the game for what it is. 

Dude, I did that and uninstalled ME3.

[Pantegana]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the starchild is not a liar. it is a program. created by organics with a purpose.

Now you sound like the Pope

[darkpassenger2342]

Pantegana wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the starchild is not a liar. it is a program. created by organics with a purpose.

Now you sound like the Pope

 i am telling you what the game tells us.. assuming that the starchild is a liar is putting your own spin to the story.
the starchild being a liar is not an option.

[Legbiter]

Synthesis is a monstrous evil that kinda shocks me every time I contemplate it.