Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
Sisterofshane wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
Not really the thread for this type of argument, but consent of sacrifice is implied when they joined your battle over earth.
Sisterofshane wrote...
Priss Blackburne wrote...
Uh just had a crazy thought..Geth are software...if you make peace they even started uploading into Quarian suits to mimic diseases to help them build up their immunity. Doesn't that imply that some Geth will survive since they are software. The biggest thing is the beam will destroy synthetic life, supposedly targeting reaper tech in Edi and the geth. So the Geth in the Quarian suits would still survive since they are nothing more then software?
No, because Legion's reaper upgrade makes each singular Geth program "alive".
If they had never recieved this Reaper upgrade, it would be reasonable enough to assume that Geth that were not connected to the net might have passed through the destroy option alive, being no more alive than a VI system. Alas, it is not the case.
Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .
Sisterofshane wrote...
...
Instead, we don't even realize that the Reapers may not even be in control of themselves until just before we start the last priority mission. We come back to Earth and we continue to be pummeled with images and stories of the Reapers atrocities (making them even LESS likable, if you can believe it).
At this point whoever wrote the ending realized that most of us just wanted to destroy the Reapers, but they had included two other thought-provoking endings (one in particular that they clearly see as superior to the others). They had to create a harsh consequence, one that most people would find abhorrent, in order to get us to even consider the other two options.
EDI and the Geth die because of (what is essentially) poor writing.
Jovian09 wrote...
But it loses its identity. The codex clearly states that restarting or repairing an AI will not restore its experience, memories or personality.
There might be geth again one day, but they wouldn't be the same people you destroyed and they would have lost everything you fought to win them in the Rannoch arc. EDI, likewise, would be restored to factory settings if she were repaired perfectly. The character we grew to know and love over sixty hours of gameplay would still be gone.
Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:25 .
Torrible wrote...
Sisterofshane wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
Not really the thread for this type of argument, but consent of sacrifice is implied when they joined your battle over earth.
Fair enough. But I bet they would not be too happy with that manner of sacrifice (in hindsight) when there is an option that allows them to
- transcend their current existence to fully experience the emotions of organics
-coexist peacefully with organics
Priss Blackburne wrote...
so ...the beam scans all computer software and if it detects life it zaps it...but leaves any other software alone?
They are not housed in a synthetic body of any type just a computer attached to a suit. Remember Geth frames are made up of many programs running in uinison. Like a reaper is a nation onto itself.
I can believe that the beam would target reaper like synthetic life, but as synthetic life is very similiar to computers and starships. Basicly just Software housed in a metal frame.
I find it very hard to believe the beam is able to differentiate from different types of software. leaving most computer in starships for flight and control alone and only targeting anything that might be an AI.
A sentient computer program while very complex would still be down to it's primary code a set of software instructions. otherwise the frame it is housed it would no longer be able to process it's signals or store it's data in memory .
Sisterofshane wrote...
Priss Blackburne wrote...
so ...the beam scans all computer software and if it detects life it zaps it...but leaves any other software alone?
They are not housed in a synthetic body of any type just a computer attached to a suit. Remember Geth frames are made up of many programs running in uinison. Like a reaper is a nation onto itself.
I can believe that the beam would target reaper like synthetic life, but as synthetic life is very similiar to computers and starships. Basicly just Software housed in a metal frame.
I find it very hard to believe the beam is able to differentiate from different types of software. leaving most computer in starships for flight and control alone and only targeting anything that might be an AI.
A sentient computer program while very complex would still be down to it's primary code a set of software instructions. otherwise the frame it is housed it would no longer be able to process it's signals or store it's data in memory .
Yup. Again, refer to my post on page one - EDI and the Geth die because of poor writing.
Modifié par spockjedi, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .
Sisterofshane wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Sisterofshane wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
Not really the thread for this type of argument, but consent of sacrifice is implied when they joined your battle over earth.
Fair enough. But I bet they would not be too happy with that manner of sacrifice (in hindsight) when there is an option that allows them to
- transcend their current existence to fully experience the emotions of organics
-coexist peacefully with organics
They don't get to have hindsight. They're dead.
Modifié par Torrible, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:05 .
GiarcYekrub wrote...
I like the fact that EDI and the Geth die in the destruction ending.
Its genocide, wiping out every reaper in existence, the choice to do that would be too easy since all the reapers we've had contact with haven't been very nice, (the leviathon dlc may rectify this) but truth is genocide isn't a warm fuzzy ending, there will be colateral damage and I applaud Bioware for including this downside that allows us to relate to that damage more personally when making that decision.
daaaav wrote...
I definitely agree with the sentiments of this post. It's a little ironic how some folks criticize us for wanting a 'happy' ending when the EC synthesis (and control) choices are frankly dripping with puppies and rainbows.
If Edi and the Geth had to die then they should have had AGENCY in the decision like all the other characters killed off by Bioware (except Kal Reegor and Amy Wong ofcourse...).
I don't want a happy ending for the hell of it. I want a conclusion worthy of the narrative. If Edi and the Geth had to die because they accepted Reaper tech then that should have been a major part of the conclusion.
I've said quite a few times that it FEELS petty and cheap. If this was intended by the writers then I still think it's petty, cheap and bad writing.
Bill Casey wrote...
Instead of your love interest, I recommend taking EDI and a lesser used squad member with you on the beam run...
Shepard tries to save EDI - Evac Farewell
Renegade version
Torrible wrote...
The fact is, they join you for a certain cause. They understand that sacrifice may be necessary. But for them to be sacrificed in that manner when there is a much better option (from their perspective) that achieves the same aim (ending the Reaper threat), I think a huge part of that implicit contract is broken.
Torrible wrote...
Sisterofshane wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
Not really the thread for this type of argument, but consent of sacrifice is implied when they joined your battle over earth.
Fair enough. But I bet they would not be too happy with that manner of sacrifice (in hindsight) when there is an option that allows them to
- transcend their current existence to fully experience the emotions of organics
-coexist peacefully with organics
MegaSovereign wrote...
RenegonSQ wrote...
No sympathy for machines, they can't show true sympathy for us.
Destroy wins again.
The Geth defended the Quarians who opposed martial law. The Geth chose isolation over the genocide of their creators. The Geth were the first to offer the Quarians a chance to come back to Rannoch and live peace.
Jovian09 wrote...
But it loses its identity. The codex clearly states that restarting or repairing an AI will not restore its experience, memories or personality.
There might be geth again one day, but they wouldn't be the same people you destroyed and they would have lost everything you fought to win them in the Rannoch arc. EDI, likewise, would be restored to factory settings if she were repaired perfectly. The character we grew to know and love over sixty hours of gameplay would still be gone.
Modifié par Sonashi, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:50 .
Modifié par d-boy15, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:06 .
blackangleleo said...
Ok, so bsn wont let me post even though everything is registered. I'd email my own thoughts.
In the destroy choice, it was said that all technology would be destroyed i believe but that it would soon be repaired. The repears blew up because of overloaded circuits im assuming. the husks disintegrated like they are suppose to(nanobots self destruct mode). Power and circuitry on the ships and planets remained in tact though and then were repaired. Couldn't be viewed that the geth and EDI could be repaired and reactivated as well? Synthetic life forms is just hardware and software. but so are so many other things in the galaxy.
To me the destroy option is more of the happy ending, they just decide to say **** you to the reapers and starchilds ideas on how the future should evolve. They take their own fate into their hands and deny themselves shortcuts like control and synthesis endings. If you can post this in your thread that be great....or a reply from you on the matter would be good to.
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