Wrong....fans just simply do not pay attention or ACTUALLY TALK to the characters.
EDI most definitely says she would sacrifice her functionality to defeat the Reapers....
Far from being "tacked on"
The ruthless calculus of war
Once again, its simply not tacked on.
Why I hate the death of Synthetics in Destroy
Débuté par
Iakus
, juil. 06 2012 05:18
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#52
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 05:56
RiptideX1090
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Torrible wrote...
Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.
The geth helped me build the Crucible. Even had Control and Synthesis not been viable options, they would have been destroyed anyway, which was always the goal: Destroy the Reapers.
#53
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:07
Wulfram
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I think Bioware themselves realised that the death of the Geth was a bad idea, given how they half cover it up in the EC
#54
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:28
TheMarshal
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Demon Velsper wrote...
Weird thing is that "the Crucible won't discriminate" when you choose Destroy, but for reasons unmentioned it does apparently discriminate when you choose Control as Shep doesn't end up controlling EDI and the Geth. Consistent much? Does this thing target all synthetics or not?
THANK YOU! I'm glad someone pointed this out. It's a ridiculous bit of contrivance.
"You can choose to destroy the Reapers, but the effect is not precise, and all synthetic life will be destroyed."
"But-"
"ALL synthetic life. Or, you can control the Reapers."
"And this will control all synthetic life?"
"No, just the Reapers."
"I won't be in control of all synthetic life?"
"No. Just the Reapers."
"So... why can't I destroy JUST the Rea-"
"It is something you cannot understand."
"But-"
"It is beyond your comprehension"
"How is thi-"
"*BRRAAAAAAAAAAAAPPP!*"
The Destroy option also affecting EDI and the Geth is there because if it weren't, the number of people choosing Control or Synthesis would drop dramatically (by my estimate). They had to make that option - one that we've been working towards for 70+ gameplay hours now - unpalatable. It's quite obvious that the authors favored Synthesis above all other options.
#55
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:34
Iakus
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txgoldrush wrote...
Wrong....fans just simply do not pay attention or ACTUALLY TALK to the characters.
EDI most definitely says she would sacrifice her functionality to defeat the Reapers....
Far from being "tacked on"
The ruthless calculus of war
Once again, its simply not tacked on.
Those are spoken of in generalities. EDI expresses a general willingness to die to stop the Reapers. Implication being, the Reapers may eventually kill her in her stuggle to stop them. See Grunt's "last stand" as an example.
Compare to Mordin, who knows exactly what has to be done to cure the genophage, and knows that doing so will kill him, but choosing to do it anyway. EDI is never given such agency. Mordin knows why he's dying and what it will accomplish. EDI is simply struck down offscreen to punish the player.
#56
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:34
ForThessia
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the geth are a very small price to pay for saving the galaxy and destroying the reapers for good
#57
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:36
Iakus
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Wulfram wrote...
I think Bioware themselves realised that the death of the Geth was a bad idea, given how they half cover it up in the EC
But in the memorial scene EDI is absent and her name is on the memorial wall. They didn't cover it up all that well. In fact, it's more plain than it was i nteh original endings, where you could headcanon teh Catalyst lying/mistaken.
#58
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:36
Iakus
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ForThessia wrote...
the geth are a very small price to pay for saving the galaxy and destroying the reapers for good
But it was still handled incredibly poorly.
#59
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:37
ForThessia
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maybe, it did feel like i got punched in the stomach when i saw edi in the flashbackiakus wrote...
ForThessia wrote...
the geth are a very small price to pay for saving the galaxy and destroying the reapers for good
But it was still handled incredibly poorly.
#60
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:38
AresKeith
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I think Bioware did that so people would go for Synthesis more
#61
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:39
ForThessia
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wouldnt surprise meAresKeith wrote...
I think Bioware did that so people would go for Synthesis more
#62
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:40
ForThessia
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double post
Modifié par ForThessia, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:40 .
#63
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:41
Volc19
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Without the consequences of losing allies, Destroy would be even more popular than it already is, with only power hungry maniacs picking Control, and insane idealists picking Synthesis. Destroy is balanced by having to sacrifice EDI and the Geth, and makes the other choices more viable.
Although, it seems like everyone went ahead and chose Destroy anyway, for whatever reason.
Although, it seems like everyone went ahead and chose Destroy anyway, for whatever reason.
#64
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:43
DirtySHISN0
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We have systematically annhilated the geth/synthetics for almost 3 games.
I thought they deserved a chance in ME1.
I thought they deserved a chance in ME2.
I gave them that chance in ME3.
I thought they deserved a chance in ME1.
I thought they deserved a chance in ME2.
I gave them that chance in ME3.
#65
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:44
RiptideX1090
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Volc19 wrote...
Although, it seems like everyone went ahead and chose Destroy anyway, for whatever reason.
Because it's the only option that does not involve Shepard becoming a dictator or raping the galaxy.
It's the only ending where the galaxy is free of the Reapers forever, as per the original goal.
#66
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:48
v TricKy v
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I can only pick destroy on my renegade because she sides with Quarians on Ranoch and dont cares about other people much. But on my Paragon shep I cant do it because she believes in the Geth and made peace.
That leaves me only the choice to fight the reapers till the end<_<
That leaves me only the choice to fight the reapers till the end<_<
#67
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:53
Fawx9
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Adamantium93 wrote...
The Geth and EDI are part Reaper. The beam doesn't discriminate.
Except the control ending, that beam apparently wont target synthetics.
#68
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:54
RiptideX1090
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Fawx9 wrote...
Adamantium93 wrote...
The Geth and EDI are part Reaper. The beam doesn't discriminate.
Except the control ending, that beam apparently wont target synthetics.
The endings are still stupid.
#69
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 06:59
AresKeith
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v TricKy v wrote...
I can only pick destroy on my renegade because she sides with Quarians on Ranoch and dont cares about other people much. But on my Paragon shep I cant do it because she believes in the Geth and made peace.
That leaves me only the choice to fight the reapers till the end<_<
except there is no paragon/renegade with the ending, its just
control -- TIM -- blue
Synthesis -- Saren -- green
Destroy -- everyone -- Red
#70
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:01
Fawx9
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RiptideX1090 wrote...
Fawx9 wrote...
Adamantium93 wrote...
The Geth and EDI are part Reaper. The beam doesn't discriminate.
Except the control ending, that beam apparently wont target synthetics.
The endings are still stupid.
Agreed, I was just pointing out another reason why their death in destory makes no sense. If control doesn't affect them why should destroy?
#71
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:04
Khajiit Jzargo
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So your assuming what all the Geth think, based on Garrus' and Edi's opinion?txgoldrush wrote...
Wrong....fans just simply do not pay attention or ACTUALLY TALK to the characters.
EDI most definitely says she would sacrifice her functionality to defeat the Reapers....
Far from being "tacked on"
The ruthless calculus of war
Once again, its simply not tacked on.
#72
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:18
KotorEffect3
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iakus wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
Wrong....fans just simply do not pay attention or ACTUALLY TALK to the characters.
EDI most definitely says she would sacrifice her functionality to defeat the Reapers....
Far from being "tacked on"
The ruthless calculus of war
Once again, its simply not tacked on.
Those are spoken of in generalities. EDI expresses a general willingness to die to stop the Reapers. Implication being, the Reapers may eventually kill her in her stuggle to stop them. See Grunt's "last stand" as an example.
Compare to Mordin, who knows exactly what has to be done to cure the genophage, and knows that doing so will kill him, but choosing to do it anyway. EDI is never given such agency. Mordin knows why he's dying and what it will accomplish. EDI is simply struck down offscreen to punish the player.
Considering that you are given alternatives that spare synthetics in other endings, I would not call killing off synthetics in destroy a punishment to the player as the player has accepted that as a consequence in choosing destroy.
#73
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:24
Iakus
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[quote]KotorEffect3 wrote...
Those are spoken of in generalities. EDI expresses a general willingness to die to stop the Reapers. Implication being, the Reapers may eventually kill her in her stuggle to stop them. See Grunt's "last stand" as an example.
Compare to Mordin, who knows exactly what has to be done to cure the genophage, and knows that doing so will kill him, but choosing to do it anyway. EDI is never given such agency. Mordin knows why he's dying and what it will accomplish. EDI is simply struck down offscreen to punish the player.
[/quote]
Considering that you are given alternatives that spare synthetics in other endings, I would not call killing off synthetics in destroy a punishment to the player as the player has accepted that as a consequence in choosing destroy.
[/quote]
It's a punishment to players who want to end the Reapers once and for all. The death of synthetics is not treated as a consequence at all. It just...happens. Hackett doesn'[t even mention them in his speech in EC.
If Destroy set in motion a chain of events that led to the death of synthetics, that would be understandable: the geth are annihilated covering Sword's retreat. EDI is required to do something that results in her death. Even scenes where they realize what's going to happen and accept it as necessary would help. But as it is, this "consequence" just feels like a "rocks fall" moment. Samara's death feels more meaningful, for crying out loud!
Those are spoken of in generalities. EDI expresses a general willingness to die to stop the Reapers. Implication being, the Reapers may eventually kill her in her stuggle to stop them. See Grunt's "last stand" as an example.
Compare to Mordin, who knows exactly what has to be done to cure the genophage, and knows that doing so will kill him, but choosing to do it anyway. EDI is never given such agency. Mordin knows why he's dying and what it will accomplish. EDI is simply struck down offscreen to punish the player.
[/quote]
Considering that you are given alternatives that spare synthetics in other endings, I would not call killing off synthetics in destroy a punishment to the player as the player has accepted that as a consequence in choosing destroy.
[/quote]
It's a punishment to players who want to end the Reapers once and for all. The death of synthetics is not treated as a consequence at all. It just...happens. Hackett doesn'[t even mention them in his speech in EC.
If Destroy set in motion a chain of events that led to the death of synthetics, that would be understandable: the geth are annihilated covering Sword's retreat. EDI is required to do something that results in her death. Even scenes where they realize what's going to happen and accept it as necessary would help. But as it is, this "consequence" just feels like a "rocks fall" moment. Samara's death feels more meaningful, for crying out loud!
Modifié par iakus, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:24 .
#74
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:29
Mojenator12345
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iakus wrote...
You give up any possibility of gaining the power of the Reapers. You cannot gain their aid in putting the galaxy back together if they are dad.
Yes, I can see it now...
Harbinger: Shepard, I am you father!
Shepard: No! No! That's not true. That's impossible!
Harbinger: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
<later>
Shepard: So, um, Dad...
Harbinger: Yes, son.
Shepard: Could you help us put the galaxy back together?
Harbinger: Hell no, clean up your own mess. I'm busy.
Shepard: Goddamn it, why do you always treat me like this?
#75
Posté 06 juillet 2012 - 07:41
Iakus
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Mojenator12345 wrote...
iakus wrote...
You give up any possibility of gaining the power of the Reapers. You cannot gain their aid in putting the galaxy back together if they are dad.
Yes, I can see it now...
Harbinger: Shepard, I am you father!
Shepard: No! No! That's not true. That's impossible!
Harbinger: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
<later>
Shepard: So, um, Dad...
Harbinger: Yes, son.
Shepard: Could you help us put the galaxy back together?
Harbinger: Hell no, clean up your own mess. I'm busy.
Shepard: Goddamn it, why do you always treat me like this?
Okay, that was a very unfortunate typo
