105 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamfrenchie]

Fawx9 wrote...

Adamantium93 wrote...

The Geth and EDI are part Reaper. The beam doesn't discriminate.

Except the control ending, that beam apparently wont target synthetics.

on't forget that with synthesis, every race and every living being is instantly rewritten on the DNA level by a beam, which implies crazy complicated  and varied process...

But making thediffeence between reapers and other synthetics?
Nope, way too hard.

It's not like the catalyst knows exactly wat the are made of, o like he could tell them to fly int the sun.

Yeah basicly Bioware realized almost everyone would choose destroy, so they made a bad consequences, so people would choose creepy disney synthesis

[Xilizhra]

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

[Jonas TM]

I too have a problem with having to sacrifice EDI and the Geth in order to get the true (Destroy) ending. While I think the new EC is good in a lot of ways it basically destroyed any chance of EDI and the Geth surviving Destroy.

My problem with this stems from three things:
1) The whole reasoning seems like it is arbitrarily included JUST to make Destroy not seem like the only obvious choice. The other two options would not even be considered as viable by the vast majority of people without the huge penalty for choosing Destroy.
2) It basically invalidates the whole Rannok plot by making the outcome you worked so hard for completely irrelevant. Legion sacrificed himself to save his entire race and you are then forced to make that sacrifice pointless and wipe them out anyway if you want to complete Shepards mission across all three games.
3) The whole reasoning seems flawed. I have said it before I believe the pulse frying Reaper HARDWARE, but not software. There is no reason EDI and the Geth, which contain fragments of Reaper code would be destroyed. Even if the pulse damages most synthetic hardware they should all still be recoverable. Especially EDI since her "brain" is a quantum computer which should not be effected by the pulse.

Those are my issues with the Destroy ending. Again it feels to me like destroying the Geth and EDI were arbitrarily added only to make Destroy less appealing. In Destroy you already lose the relays and the Citadel is heavily damaged, not to mention having to repair a lot of tech. Forcing us to wipe out an entire race and major supporting character is just adding insult to injury.

My 2 cents.

Modifié par Jonas TM, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:28 .

[Fawx9]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

See too me that doesn't make sense. You could time machine™ her back to life, its not like she would be dumb enough to not have a back up incase she was destoryed in battle right?

Or does this magic wave of doom even effect things that are simply memory containers?

[Xilizhra]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI died once already, on Luna. She still remembers it. Why would this change now?

[Jonas TM]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI's "brain" is a quantum black-box computer.  I find it nearly unbelieveable that the pulse could effect her core mind at all.  Fry her Reaper upgrades and her external processess, even her connection to the Normandy, fine.  But her actual mind?  That is pretty unbelievable.

Modifié par Jonas TM, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:35 .

[Iakus]

Jonas TM wrote...

EDI's "brain" is a quantum black-box computer.  I find it nearly unbelieveable that the pulse could effect her core mind at all.  Fry her Reaper upgrades and her external processess, even her connection to the Normandy, fine.  But her actual mind?  That is pretty unbelievable.

What about the Crucible is believable, exactly? 

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI died once already, on Luna. She still remembers it. Why would this change now?

She was salvaged by Cerberus and upgraded. And it appears her personality changed...

[chevyguy87]

After watching all the scenarios play out on youtube, I refuse to complete the game. The fact that Bioware kept Space Hitler and let the story walk itself right off the side of a cliff in the final 10 minutes, kills it for me. I felt it was stupid to bundle EDI and the Geth in "all" synthetic life, to me it seems like it's was a band aid over a bullet hole to make it so not EVERYBODY would choose the Destroy ending.

I thought our mission was to kill Reapers not comrades, but Bioware's "genius" editing department (yes I am being sarcastic with that) completely buried the series, throwing out the rules of Mass Effect lore along with it.

[Xilizhra]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI died once already, on Luna. She still remembers it. Why would this change now?

She was salvaged by Cerberus and upgraded. And it appears her personality changed...

She didn't really have a personality on Luna, just confused instincts. And if an organic can be brought back from the dead, shouldn't synthetics be far easier?

[vixvicco]

RenegonSQ wrote...

No sympathy for machines, they can't show true sympathy for us.

Destroy wins again.

EDI was willing to lay down her "life" for everyone. Maybe it was just her programming, but considering she was that rouge VI from ME1, that means even she understands choice. Even she knew she didn't have to help anyone. Not really anyway. Wether or not she has emotions is irrelevant. It was still a sacrifice. Even I acknowledge that, and I don't like her that much at all.

[Iakus]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
She was salvaged by Cerberus and upgraded. And it appears her personality changed...[/quote]
She didn't really have a personality on Luna, just confused instincts. And if an organic can be brought back from the dead, shouldn't synthetics be far easier?
[/quote]

Doubtful, given medical research has been far more in demand than AI research in Council space..

[elitehunter34]

Totally agree with the OP here, I'm really glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I have said this several times before, but

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differences between different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to anyone?

[Bill Casey]

Torrible wrote...

Utilitarians who advocate Destroy have no right to criticise the 'lack of consent' aspect of Synthesis. After all, the consent of the Geth were not sought when they were destroyed.

Yes we do...

[zambot]

elitehunter34 wrote...

Totally agree with the OP here, I'm really glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. I have said this several times before, but

Synthesis is capable of making molecular (possibly atomic) changes to every organic and synthetic being in the galaxy.  It has to recognize the differences between synthetics and organics (and the differences between different organic/synthetic races because upgrades to Asari will be different than upgrades to Hanar for example) and then is able to make these changes almost instantly on a galactic level.  This is something that is arguable only achievable by the most incredibly and unfathomably advanced technology the galaxy has ever known.

Yet the Crucible doesn't have the technology to distinguish between the Geth/EDI and the Reapers, something I can do with my eyes.

Does that really make sense to anyone?

I still can't believe people are trying to make sense of space magic.  People it's space magic!  

[Lionheart316]

Didn't matter, I shot the tube. While I enjoy EDI and thankful that the Geth came to help us, I will never trust a robot. The Geth can go, EDI well... she could be still on the Normandy. Yup, too many movies has taught me never to trust a robot.

[Sisterofshane]

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI died once already, on Luna. She still remembers it. Why would this change now?

She was salvaged by Cerberus and upgraded. And it appears her personality changed...

She didn't really have a personality on Luna, just confused instincts. And if an organic can be brought back from the dead, shouldn't synthetics be far easier?

It's not a complete impossibility, but I think the technology to do so will be so far off as to not benefit EDI personally (unless Liara makes it her personal mission to bring EDI back - she's got about 900 years).

The problem is the specific type of AI that EDI is.  Her "personailty" is as much trial and error and learning as an organic.  You could build the same machine, give it the uploaded saved data that EDI would have undoubtedly stored, and still might not get the same individual that she was before she was destroyed.

Besides, Project Lazarus was, in my opinion, as much luck as science.  Shepards brain remained undamaged, thanks to her hard suit.  EDI's "brain" (or her quantum blue-box) would not have been so lucky (there is almost a guarantee that part of her was corrupted or lost, the same way that data on your computer would be wiped were it subjected to a bad enough "crash").

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:40 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

EDI died once already, on Luna. She still remembers it. Why would this change now?

She was salvaged by Cerberus and upgraded. And it appears her personality changed...

She didn't really have a personality on Luna, just confused instincts. And if an organic can be brought back from the dead, shouldn't synthetics be far easier?

It's not a complete impossibility, but I think the technology to do so will be so far off as to not benefit EDI personally (unless Liara makes it her personal mission to bring EDI back - she's got about 900 years).

The problem is the specific type of AI that EDI is.  Her "personailty" is as much trial and error and learning as an organic.  You could build the same machine, give it the uploaded saved data that EDI would have undoubtedly stored, and still might not get the same individual that she was before she was destroyed.

Besides, Project Lazarus was, in my opinion, as much luck as science.  Shepards brain remained undamaged, thanks to her hard suit.  EDI's "brain" (or her quantum blue-box) would not have been so lucky (there is almost a guarantee that part of her was corrupted or lost, the same way that data on your computer would be wiped were it subjected to a bad enough "crash").

I've said this a few times before, but the question is whether her quantum blue box and reaper hardware can be restored. Without those two, EDI's deader than dead. Reaper hardware shouldn't be an issue. There are lots and lots of dead reapers around. Biggest question is whether her blue box can be restored. Again, without know the mechanics of the destroy wave, this is open to speculation.

However, I will still consider her permanently dead unless refuted by Bioware. Which is a shame, since she was my most favored squadmate.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:51 .

[Ezlo86]

Don't you think EDI and the Geth are a relative small price to pay for the destruction of the malfunctioning AI overlord who's been f*cking around with the life of the entire galaxy for the past billions of years? Nature can go about it's way now, you know.

Modifié par Ezlo86, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:57 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Ezlo86 wrote...

Don't you think EDI and the Geth are a relative small price to pay for the destruction of the malfunctioning AI overlord who's been f*cking around with the life of the galaxy for the past billions of years? Nature can go about it's way now, you know.

I'm willing to pay that price, but the biggest mistake would be to trivialize their deaths. Not only does it feel contrived, but it will also prove that the Catalyst was right, which is the ultimate defeat.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:57 .

[Balmung31]

iakus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I still think they can be rebuilt in Destroy. It's a temporary loss.

EDI, at least cannot. Her files or "memories' could be salvaged, perhaps, but her personality is gone.  ANd her name on the memorial wall confirms her death

I go with what Star Trek: Nemesis did with Data.  Even though he dies, his counterpart B-4 shows signs of starting to learn how to sing like Data did.  It will take some time, and may not be exactly like the old Data was, but you still feel a part of Data will live on, at least. 

[Ezlo86]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Ezlo86 wrote...

Don't you think EDI and the Geth are a relative small price to pay for the destruction of the malfunctioning AI overlord who's been f*cking around with the life of the galaxy for the past billions of years? Nature can go about it's way now, you know.

I'm willing to pay that price, but the biggest mistake would be to trivialize their deaths. Not only does it feel contrived, but it will also prove that the Catalyst was right, which is the ultimate defeat.

I'm not saying to treat their deaths as collateral damage, you did commit genocide, in a way. And I don't really care if he's right, he's still dead. I talked to people about this, and a lot of them who chose Destroy did it simply out of spite for the Catalyst, and I don't think that should be the case. I rejected his logic because it's downright stupid, and I don't want another intervention from him, he's gonna die alright.

Also, if Shepard's really alive after that ending, he/she's gonna tell everyone what happened up there, and inspire people to treat synthetics with a little more respect from now on. I hope, anyway.

[Bill Casey]

Ezlo86 wrote...

Don't you think EDI and the Geth are a relative small price to pay for the destruction of the malfunctioning AI overlord who's been f*cking around with the life of the entire galaxy for the past billions of years? Nature can go about it's way now, you know.

Considering I killed 300,000 batarians just to slow the Reapers down, James killed a ton of colonists just to destroy one collector ship, Hackett sent the entire second fleet to their death just to let the third and fifth fleets escape, and the Turians killed a **** ton of civilians by blowing up Reaper processing centers and the galaxy dubbed it "miracle at Palaven", yes I think it's a small price to pay for all of the Reapers completely gone...

That doesn't mean I have to like it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[shodiswe]

Seryl wrote...

I never thought those deaths were unnecessary. I figured that the crucible's destroy pulse was going to destroy Reaper tech. The Geth had incorporated Reaper code into themselves at that point (not sure why software would be targeted by a beam destroying hardware, but Synthesis is presented as plausible so ....) while EDI had salvaged bits of Sovereign incorporated into her design. So the destroy wave fried that tech as well.

What struck me as odd was that Legion decided to use the Reaper code at all. He made the point a few times that the Heretics decided to take a shortcut, accepting technological "uplifting" from the Reapers while the True Geth wanted to get there on their own. If that was the case, it seemed out of character for him to suddenly use Reaper upgrades. Granted, he was trying to save his people at the time, but it was still odd. The sad point, if my theory is right, is that had he stuck to his "We'll do it ourselves", the Geth would have had no Reaper tech integrated into themselves and might have survived.

By the sound of what te Catalyst told us it has nothing to do with Reapertech... all synthetics got wiped out.. Reapertech or no.

Also legion salvaged the good parts of the reaper tech, it wasn't forced on him, but it realized it was something good if you only piced the good parts foregoing the reaper controll parts. Legion had the reaper code all along but it couldn't control Legion, because Legions experiences had made it too advanced to control.. Legion had to ditribute it's advances for the other geth to be able to use it safely... And it couldn't coppy or open an already running program/file, so it had to shutdown and transmit it's codes and experience... Which kind of ceased it's continued existance. Everything abotu the geth is kidn of weird but I like it that they are so alien, not having them in a future game would be a sad loss  

I want to find a Geth Ambassador on the Citadel in a future game.