461 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Xilizhra wrote...

General User wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Perhaps Liara could make an e-copy of herself. That way there'd be as many Liaras as there were Shepards. Then, just quick phenobarbital cocktail to tie up the loose end and everyone's happy.

What if two Liaras like the same Shepard? The only way this might work out is if they all became some kind of mutual harem, and that'd make children extremely awkward.

If two e-Liara's liked the same e-Shepard, then you'd just make a copy of that particular e-Shepard.  It'd be the same e-person, right?

Ultimately, it's just easier to only have there be one of each.

Yeah, otherwise we'd have these "Sixth Day" violations.

[Siansonea]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

Well, then I guess Synthesis Shepard is the worst war criminal the galaxy has ever known, worse even than Catalyst itself. Affecting politics and the survival of selected species was bad enough. Now Shepard has gone and jacked with all life in the galaxy on a molecular level. But hey, we're all "upgraded", so it's okay, right? Green glowy eyes are cool! And everybody who minutes earlier hated each other is now living in perfect harmony, singing campfire songs, strumming guitars. Yay! 

[ghost9191]

Siansonea II wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

Well, then I guess Synthesis Shepard is the worst war criminal the galaxy has ever known, worse even than Catalyst itself. Affecting politics and the survival of selected species was bad enough. Now Shepard has gone and jacked with all life in the galaxy on a molecular level. But hey, we're all "upgraded", so it's okay, right? Green glowy eyes are cool! And everybody who minutes earlier hated each other is now living in perfect harmony, singing campfire songs, strumming guitars. Yay! 

to be fair, the quarians get killed by the geth, and the krogan kill themselves in the long run<_<

[Malditor]

Siansonea II wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

Well, then I guess Synthesis Shepard is the worst war criminal the galaxy has ever known, worse even than Catalyst itself. Affecting politics and the survival of selected species was bad enough. Now Shepard has gone and jacked with all life in the galaxy on a molecular level. But hey, we're all "upgraded", so it's okay, right? Green glowy eyes are cool! And everybody who minutes earlier hated each other is now living in perfect harmony, singing campfire songs, strumming guitars. Yay! 

He has been chosen to be the one to make these decisions.

[Saans Shadow]

djarlaks10 wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...

Saans Shadow wrote...

It's obvious that alot of people hate synthesis.  You see all the reasons: it's wrong, it's immoral, it's unethical, it violates a persons rights, it makes everybody the "same" (i'll explain the quotes in a minute), etc etc.  Let me ask you some questions.  Have you ever fought a battle of equality? Have you had someone look at you and say you are wrong? I don't mean "oh thats the wrong answer" I mean YOU as a person, a living human being is wrong, everything about who and what you are is WRONG.  I have. I have by random people, by friends, by family.  Why you ask? I'm gay. Always have been, always will be. Do you know what it's like to have your entire existence accused of being invalid?  Why am I telling you this in this thread?  Because it relates to why I will always, ALWAYS pick synthesis over ANY of the other choices.  It's taken me a while to figure out why synthesis is my choice and why I cling to it so.  It brings equality to the galaxy.  I don't mean it makes everybody the "same", it doesn't make them clones or zombies or copies. IT. MAKES. THEM. EQUAL.  It gives everybody common ground to stand on but allows them to retain personal identity. Racial, gender, sexual orientation identity.  ALL of it. It's not some horrible plot to tell people that they have to be the "same" to get along but it does send of message that if people were to treat everybody as equals there is a strong possibility of everlasting peace and prosperity.  If synthesis where to happen to our world and all of a sudden I started getting treated like any other person instead of getting strange looks when I walk down the street or made fun of because of how I act or holding hands with a bf, I would WELCOME it without question!  You call me wrong, FINE.  You think i'm immoral, FINE.  I'm just sick of how people are treating pro-snyths when some of us have a damn good for reason for our BELIEFS for it! <3:wizard:<3:wizard:<3

I can't believe I've actually read all of this (and yes, I'm one of those guys who makes fun of gay people. Sometimes), but to me it looks like you contradict yourself. At first you say that synthesis will make everyone equal and then you say that it will allow everyone to "retain personal identity". So, if I retain my personal identity, then how would glowing eyes stop me from making jokes about gay people (nothing personal, it's just an example you mentioned so I'm gonna use it as well). But anyway, everyone is brainwashed and is happily chatting with Harbringer and Jack the Brute, so it doesn't matter. Destroy all the way.

Being equal to somebody doesn't mean erasing their identity to literally equal out. 

Everybody cannot be equal. Someone is still smarter than the rest, someone else is physically stronger than the rest, and they should benefit from having those abilities. If everyone is equal, then everyone would have the same level of income, thus there would be no one to do essential yet underpaid and somewhat dirty job (like, maintenance stuff), and no one will try and make some innovative stuff. In my opinion, Synthesis is some crazy utopia. You cannot build a society where everybody's equal.

And this is where I disagree with you sir and I believe is one of today's major societal issues, not believing equality can be established on a global level. When I say equality i mean it on basic human level but I honestly can't expect you to understand and I don't mean that in an insulting way but when you have to fight for your right to visit your partner in the hospital when they are dying then you might see where I'm coming from.

I don't know about anybody else but to myself ME3's underlying theme has been about overcoming differences for the greater good and synthesis is a perfect way to bridge it to the organics vs synthetics overlaying theme to build a better future for all.

[Siansonea]

Malditor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

Well, then I guess Synthesis Shepard is the worst war criminal the galaxy has ever known, worse even than Catalyst itself. Affecting politics and the survival of selected species was bad enough. Now Shepard has gone and jacked with all life in the galaxy on a molecular level. But hey, we're all "upgraded", so it's okay, right? Green glowy eyes are cool! And everybody who minutes earlier hated each other is now living in perfect harmony, singing campfire songs, strumming guitars. Yay! 

He has been chosen to be the one to make these decisions.

And he chose to end ****** sapiens, and replace it with ****** synthesiensis. Bravo, Chosen One, you've made humanity extinct. Golf clap. <_<

[ghost9191]

@Saans Shadow

Which is great except you are saying that we cannot achieve that equality without synthesis. i mean personally i am tolerant of others and i do not need to be forcefully changed at the genetic level  to accept others ways of life, i can do it on my own. Having to have a change forced on you in order to accept someone is pathetic, and tolerance is not a issue, the geth and multiple other races are fighting as allies to end the reaper threat, maybe in this day and age ppl aren't all that tolerant towards other but in mass effect they are

so i do not believe that the mass effect universe needs synthesis for understanding, if that is your reason (and i mean "your" in general not you) for picking synthesis then it just shows you do not believe we are capable of being tolerant of others without synthesis, which again through out the game you learn different

Modifié par ghost9191, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .

[Baronesa]

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

[Malditor]

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

The only thing it does is make everyone part synthetic, it has nothing to do with homogenization or wiping out differences.

Modifié par Malditor, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:20 .

[Malditor]

Siansonea II wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

Well, then I guess Synthesis Shepard is the worst war criminal the galaxy has ever known, worse even than Catalyst itself. Affecting politics and the survival of selected species was bad enough. Now Shepard has gone and jacked with all life in the galaxy on a molecular level. But hey, we're all "upgraded", so it's okay, right? Green glowy eyes are cool! And everybody who minutes earlier hated each other is now living in perfect harmony, singing campfire songs, strumming guitars. Yay! 

He has been chosen to be the one to make these decisions.

And he chose to end ****** sapiens, and replace it with ****** synthesiensis. Bravo, Chosen One, you've made humanity extinct. Golf clap. <_<

If that's the way you want to see it, that's fine, but it doesn't make it any less valid a choice than any other decision. Seems the only thing you care about is humans so if he had to sacrifice every other alien race to save humanity I guess that's all that matters to you?

[Xilizhra]

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

How is that any different from conforming to random acts of nature?

[Baronesa]

Malditor wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

The only thing it does is make everyone part synthetic, it has nothing to do with homogenization or wiping out differences.

Making everyone an hybrid is homogenization...

If you don't change to X then there will be no understanding...

I say NO!

Understanding come from working on the differences, not by removing them! Furthermore it is an imposed change to please the Reapers, becuase the Catalyst cannot comprehend that unity can happen DESPITE our differences, that is real tolerance.

Tolerance that is already happening in universe, the ONLY ones who cannot understand it and accept it are the Reapers.

[wantedman dan]

Malditor wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

The only thing it does is make everyone part synthetic, it has nothing to do with homogenization or wiping out differences.

So that whole "elimination of the synthetic/organic dichotomy" thing isn't wiping out differences.

[Ridwan]

There's nothing cool about Synthesis.

[Xilizhra]

Baronesa wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

The only thing it does is make everyone part synthetic, it has nothing to do with homogenization or wiping out differences.

Making everyone an hybrid is homogenization...

If you don't change to X then there will be no understanding...

I say NO!

Understanding come from working on the differences, not by removing them! Furthermore it is an imposed change to please the Reapers, becuase the Catalyst cannot comprehend that unity can happen DESPITE our differences, that is real tolerance.

Tolerance that is already happening in universe, the ONLY ones who cannot understand it and accept it are the Reapers.

Can it? Can unity truly happen? If it hasn't happened in many thousands of  years for humans, and far longer for the other species, should we really imagine it can happen without extra help?

[Baronesa]

Xilizhra wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

How is that any different from conforming to random acts of nature?

Because it is not random it is impossed, it is directed and it is forced on people.

Natural process happen slowly and evolution happens on entire populations, not on individuals... here the individual is being forced to change.

And that is my main problem... it is FORCED

If synthesis is really inevitable in the future... then I say let us reach that place at our own pace and time and let us CHOOSE to embrace synthesis when we FEEL we are ready.

[Saans Shadow]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Saans Shadow

Which is great except you are saying that we cannot achieve that equality without synthesis. i mean personally i am tolerant of others and i do not need to be forcefully changed at the genetic level  to accept others ways of life, i can do it on my own. Having to have a change forced on you in order to accept someone is pathetic, and tolerance is not a issue, the geth and multiple other races are fighting as allies to end the reaper threat, maybe in this day and age ppl aren't all that tolerant towards other but in mass effect they are

so i do not believe that the mass effect universe needs synthesis for understanding, if that is your reason (and i mean "your" in general not you) for picking synthesis then it just shows you do not believe we are capable of being tolerant of others without synthesis, which again through out the game you learn different

And I can see where you are coming from.  All of the endings have a moral and ethical consequense and synthesis is the one that hit closest to home with me.  Do I believe society will move past it's differences with enough time, yes...either that or we will all kill each other <_<  The choice is ultimately yours to make at the end I was just sharing my perspective on why synthesis is right in my book but why people shouldn't bash each other for it because in the end we all chose our original choice for one reason or another.  I do appreciate your perspective though. I still won't change my choice for ME universe

[Xilizhra]

Baronesa wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

How is that any different from conforming to random acts of nature?

Because it is not random it is impossed, it is directed and it is forced on people.

Natural process happen slowly and evolution happens on entire populations, not on individuals... here the individual is being forced to change.

And that is my main problem... it is FORCED

If synthesis is really inevitable in the future... then I say let us reach that place at our own pace and time and let us CHOOSE to embrace synthesis when we FEEL we are ready.

A nice ideal, unless we all get killed by synthetics beforehand, which would be... problematic.

[wantedman dan]

Xilizhra wrote...

A nice ideal, unless we all get killed by synthetics beforehand, which would be... problematic.

So you support the forced homogenization of the entire galactic population on the whim of an unfounded probability?

[Baronesa]

Xilizhra wrote...

Can it? Can unity truly happen? If it hasn't happened in many thousands of  years for humans, and far longer for the other species, should we really imagine it can happen without extra help?

Yes, it can happen. It won't be easy... it won't be any time soon... but those are the growing pains. And in fact that fight, that strive to be better is a precious thing, even if right now some of us have to suffer from discrimination, have to endure society's wrath for who we are... the fact that more and more people come to help, and fight for your rights, that is the real beauty that would be completely lost.

[Xilizhra]

wantedman dan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

A nice ideal, unless we all get killed by synthetics beforehand, which would be... problematic.

So you support the forced homogenization of the entire galactic population on the whim of an unfounded probability?

I don't "support" any of the endings; I'm neutral on all except Refusal, which is simply disgusting.

Yes, it can happen. It won't be easy... it won't be any time soon... but
those are the growing pains. And in fact that fight, that strive to be
better is a precious thing, even if right now some of us have to suffer
from discrimination, have to endure society's wrath for who we are...
the fact that more and more people come to help, and fight for your
rights, that is the real beauty that would be completely lost.

Conflict is not beauty, and these "growing pains" frequently take the form of corpses. How many lives would you sacrifice for this?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:34 .

[wantedman dan]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't "support" any of the endings; I'm neutral on all except Refusal, which is simply disgusting.

I'm glad to see you appreciate the concept of self-determination.

[Saans Shadow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, it can happen. It won't be easy... it won't be any time soon... but
those are the growing pains. And in fact that fight, that strive to be
better is a precious thing, even if right now some of us have to suffer
from discrimination, have to endure society's wrath for who we are...
the fact that more and more people come to help, and fight for your
rights, that is the real beauty that would be completely lost.

Conflict is not beauty, and these "growing pains" frequently take the form of corpses. How many lives would you sacrifice for this?

Thank you!

Modifié par Saans Shadow, 07 juillet 2012 - 12:41 .

[Ridwan]

Do the Synthesis crowd hate the concept of free will and overcoming adversity through our own means?

[MegMonster]

Baronesa wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Synthesis is the antithesis of tolerance...

Instead of accepting and celebrating the differences of the other, you HAVE to change to conform to the Reaper's ideal... everyone must become part synthetic... everyone must be homogenized... no longer organic, but an hybrid... that is no tolerance...

The only thing it does is make everyone part synthetic, it has nothing to do with homogenization or wiping out differences.

Making everyone an hybrid is homogenization...

If you don't change to X then there will be no understanding...

I say NO!

Understanding come from working on the differences, not by removing them! Furthermore it is an imposed change to please the Reapers, becuase the Catalyst cannot comprehend that unity can happen DESPITE our differences, that is real tolerance.

Tolerance that is already happening in universe, the ONLY ones who cannot understand it and accept it are the Reapers.

I think I'm leaning toward the idea that synthesis, as the above have said, is like the god-mod of a disillusioned group of murderous peace keepers. It's a fast forward button to an idyllic future that should have been obtained through evolution instead of a single decision.

That being said...

From a human point of view, if you could make a horrific war end and save the universe you fought so hard for without seeing it converted into mindless "husks", why wouldn't you? Philosophical discussions aside, if you had to pull the trigger, you might go after synthesis. I can't knock anyone who picks it. The ending wasn't a bad one. No one lost their individual freedom/mind. Synthetics finally got what they've always wanted -- life. And organics could keep going without having to get wiped out.

For me, however, I think what stuck in my mind was all the work Shepard does throughout the Mass Effect series. With synthesis...what was the point? Didn't Shepard essentially lay the framework for that kind of society without the god-mod provided by the Reapers? Didn't Shepard prove the ghost child wrong just by what he/she accomplished? I think synthesis takes credit away from all the sacrifices made before Shepard's. Mordin, Legion...they all sacrificed themselves for that freedom of choice AND to set things right. The races were defying the norm just through the developments made in my game. And they did that because they chose to.
That's why the synthesis path just doesn't mesh well with the way I played Shepard.