461 réponses à ce sujet

[Khajiit Jzargo]

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

I don't follow the Reaper kid, I choose Refusal.

[wantedman dan]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a destination, that being the ultimate end of the universe unless we find something better. It's an open question as to whether or not there has to be a destination.

So basically "death on your terms."

Who are you to decide for everyone what their death should be?

I consider the preservation of life to be more important. No, it's not right to simply allow someone to commit suicide.

So you agree with Saren.

[ghost9191]

Saans Shadow wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Dude, death is natural.

I'm into philosophy and moral debates (hell, one of my favourite things about BioWare games in general).

Death is required?

The knowledge of death spurs us to do as much as possible in life, enjoy it as much as possible. Yet, it can often lead people to being selfish, endulging themselves as the expense of others, knowing they only have a limited time available to them.

Others want to do as much good in their lives as possible.

If death was removed, would this change?

Personally, I don't think so. You'd still have selfish people, and you'd still have altruistic people. And eventually, I'm sure most of us would want to rest, to die, but it would be on our terms and not natures.

But would that be right? I don't know.

I feel you there, as pro-synth as I am that part when EDI talks about transcending mortality freaks me out a bit but being immortal is something I can't understand being fleshy creature as I am lol

that just sounds way too much liike becoming a reaper to me, i don't think you become husks or whatever but that hits pretty close to home

[Ridwan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

I don't follow the Reaper kid, I choose Refusal.

Good. The more people that spit in the face of that dumb kid the better.

[Jamie9]

wantedman dan wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

No, we did have a misunderstanding. I used the wrong terminology is all.

I meant what I meant. Conflict (as in war or murder; death through human - or alien - means).

My argument was that freedom, a good life, and the basic rights should always be upheld.

Conflict (the bloody kind) is good if it fights for freedom, good lives, and basic rights. Otherwise, it is evil.

Then "we" didn't have a misunderstanding, lol.

See, I am good at using the wrong words in the context required.

I hope my clarification has made my morals seem more appealing to you.

[wantedman dan]

Jamie9 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

No, we did have a misunderstanding. I used the wrong terminology is all.

I meant what I meant. Conflict (as in war or murder; death through human - or alien - means).

My argument was that freedom, a good life, and the basic rights should always be upheld.

Conflict (the bloody kind) is good if it fights for freedom, good lives, and basic rights. Otherwise, it is evil.

Then "we" didn't have a misunderstanding, lol.

See, I am good at using the wrong words in the context required.

I hope my clarification has made my morals seem more appealing to you.

It's certainly better, yes.

[Jamie9]

ghost9191 wrote...

that just sounds way too much liike becoming a reaper to me, i don't think you become husks or whatever but that hits pretty close to home

What is abhorrent about a Reaper? Apart from their creation process obviously.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

I don't follow the Reaper kid, I choose Refusal.

Good. The more people that spit in the face of that dumb kid the better.

Indeed.

[Xilizhra]

So basically "death on your terms."

Who are you to decide for everyone what their death should be?

I hope to avoid death altogether.

So you agree with Saren.

In some ways. His intentions were good, but badly misguided due to the clouding of his perceptions from indoctrination.

[ghost9191]

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

i don't know about that, i mean they joined the reapers twice , and legion tries to stop shepard from deciding their fate while trying to upload reaper code. i think if the geth were in sheps position they would p[robably try control

[Malditor]

wantedman dan wrote...

Malditor wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So tell me. How many lives would you sacrifice for this ideal?

False dichotomy.

According to his banner he would sacrifice all the lives for the ideal.
Actually, refuse and synthesis can be considered the same thing. Refusal condems all the races to death because the person won't make a choice. Synthesis is "condeming" all life to be changed, which some consider the death of the humanity apparently.
Only difference is in synthesis at least everyone is still living.

No, they can't.

Synthesis forcefully condemns. Refusal allows life to determine for itself.

You didn't allow them to determine life, you determined that they'll die. You don't want to admit it, but by refusing a choice you condemed them all to die..

[Sousabird]

How about to avoid these pointless discussion bioware retcons the choices to two choices,
1. Nuke everyone instantly providing an instantaneous and painless death.
2. Allow the reapers to kill everyone so that we will be "preserved" however we get brutally murdered.

[ghost9191]

Jamie9 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

that just sounds way too much liike becoming a reaper to me, i don't think you become husks or whatever but that hits pretty close to home

What is abhorrent about a Reaper? Apart from their creation process obviously.

HOW DARE YOU ASK A QUESTION OF ME THAT I CANNOT ANSWER

idk the process <_<    that and it just destroys who we are

that;s all i got

[ADLegend21]

djarlaks10 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

Sorry, but that's mass Effect. You can wipe out four species trhought eh three games (rachni, geth, quarians, and Krogan) but that doens't seem to bother anyone, that's yoru decisions afftecting an entire race of people. Let the council die and replace it with an all human council? You just affected ALL of council space and just overhauled a governemnt that been in place for thousands of years. but that doesn't seem to bother you. ne person's decision afftecting everyone has been in this game sine day one, don't get upset that at the end it actually stayed true to wht it's always been. Shepard changing everyone's lives is pretty much what Mass Effect is all about.

The fact that you've destroyed Rachni doesn't affect John the taxi driver on Palaven, however that fact that he wakes up and gets green glowy eyes does affect him.

Oh but it can. Because you killed hte Rachni, their workers and soldiers weren't able to help palaven so John the tazi driver gets killed because you sacraficed an ally species.

[wantedman dan]

Xilizhra wrote...

I hope to avoid death altogether.

I'll ask again: Who are you to decide that for people?

 In some ways. His intentions were good, but badly misguided due to the clouding of his perceptions from indoctrination.

Good intentions pave the road to Hell.

[Saans Shadow]

ghost9191 wrote...

@Sans Shadow

to quote mister gutsy "kill them all and let god sort them out" to the reapers. but i also believe the races that made the reapers are dead, they have been for a long time and getting rid of the reapers puts those races to death. but that is without really metagaming

they are victims but they are still a threat and my shep is just a soldier trying to stop that threat

like when you went into the geth consensus, you knew you would be killing probably a million geth, a "city" but you did it because it had to be done, same with the batarian colony, and that was only to delay the reapers

"winning this war will have a high price" shepard

"as it always does"  Javik

Fallout makes me happy
The Geth and Batarians were very difficult for me to accept. I hated the fact that there wasn't another way to save the batarians and honestly...i rewrote the geth..but part of my reasoning with that is because like half a dozen of legions varias programs favored the rewrite over the others and I took that as a majority rules type thing lol

I agree, every war always has a high price...whether it be one death or a million its too high a cost.

Edit: But humans want to save everyone

Modifié par Saans Shadow, 07 juillet 2012 - 01:21 .

[KingZayd]

Soultaker08 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

The argument " this is what our enemy wants" becomes invalid when new information is offered, or the outcome changes, saying no just to say no isnt an argument

What new information?

[wantedman dan]

Malditor wrote...

You didn't allow them to determine life, you determined that they'll die. You don't want to admit it, but by refusing a choice you condemed them all to die..

Well don't we just have some impeccable logic, here.

They determined they wanted to fight, they determined that, if they were to die, it would be acceptable--it was on their terms.

[Jamie9]

ghost9191 wrote...
HOW DARE YOU ASK A QUESTION OF ME THAT I CANNOT ANSWER

idk the process <_<    that and it just destroys who we are

that;s all i got

Well, yes, obviously Reapers shouldn't have been created in the first place, but now that we have them here, is it right to destroy them?

We don't know anything, really, about the Reapers. Do they have a culture (even the one of their harvested species)? Do they have desires? Are they conscious while under the Catalyst's control?

Choosing to let them live (Synthesis) is a leap of faith. Yet I don't know if I can condemn them to death. I don't want to. They're sentient beings that have been forced to murder trillions by a stupid flawed AI. But to save the Reapers, I have to alter everyone in the galaxy. Damn it.

Modifié par Jamie9, 07 juillet 2012 - 01:22 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

ghost9191 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

i don't know about that, i mean they joined the reapers twice , and legion tries to stop shepard from deciding their fate while trying to upload reaper code. i think if the geth were in sheps position they would p[robably try control

Those were the Heretics, now, they would refuse because they wouldn't want to be instantly killed or co-exist/have anything to do with the Reapers.

[Xilizhra]

wantedman dan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I hope to avoid death altogether.

I'll ask again: Who are you to decide that for people?

 In some ways. His intentions were good, but badly misguided due to the clouding of his perceptions from indoctrination.

Good intentions pave the road to Hell.

I'm a human who doesn't wish to see death, and good intentions are still necessary to do good.

[Ridwan]

ghost9191 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

i don't know about that, i mean they joined the reapers twice , and legion tries to stop shepard from deciding their fate while trying to upload reaper code. i think if the geth were in sheps position they would p[robably try control

First time was the Heretics, second time was a retard moment for the Geth, since the Quarians blew up a large chunk of them when they were uploaded to that sphere thingy.

[Malditor]

wantedman dan wrote...

Malditor wrote...

You didn't allow them to determine life, you determined that they'll die. You don't want to admit it, but by refusing a choice you condemed them all to die..

Well don't we just have some impeccable logic, here.

They determined they wanted to fight, they determined that, if they were to die, it would be acceptable--it was on their terms.

You are assuming that they wouldn't have wanted you to pick one of the choices available. I'm sure that many would have been very upset knowing that they didn't have to die if you picked one of the choices. You determined that they had to die to the reapers whether they wanted to or not.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

M25105 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I like destroy after blasting the reapers to hell we're left to create our own future and reach it at our own pace, to me that is truly the one choice worth the sacrafices made for it.

No sacrifice is worth commiting Genocide for.

I'm pretty sure the Geth would've done the same thing. We make our own path, rather than follow some reaper kid.

i don't know about that, i mean they joined the reapers twice , and legion tries to stop shepard from deciding their fate while trying to upload reaper code. i think if the geth were in sheps position they would p[robably try control

First time was the Heretics, second time was a retard moment for the Geth, since the Quarians blew up a large chunk of them when they were uploaded to that sphere thingy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Come on we were having so much fun with this a few pages ago. You know with Keiji's grey box becoming sapient. Then I had this idea about Liara melding with a grey box and uploading Shepard into it so we could make a Shepard-bot kind of like EDI, but looks like Shepard, and Liara could stop crying in the final scene and take the name off the wall.

You know. Yeah, I know it would be the third reboot. But it's not like there hadn't been a reboot before.

I know we'd have to make some rules, like ONLY ONE copy at a time, otherwise it gets too cylony (there are many copies). But think about it. You could do continuous backups of yourself to the cloud and when the old body gives out, just get a new body and download your last backup. Voila! Resurrection! And you could do it before everything went kaput. Conquer death itself!

And you wouldn't even have to worry about population growth because there would be no need to reproduce. Just a need to expand knowledge. No screamy squallering kids running around. No diapers to change.

Then someone had to go get all serious and war crimie and philosophical about it. *sigh*.