461 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Do people Ever CHOOSE to evolve???
does any creature? *cough * organic??
not that i can remember.
evolution never was, and never will be a choice.

Evolution is not moral. Evolution is not a sudden change on an existing being. Done here, you're just going around in circles now.

[darkpassenger2342]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Oh goody another .."My ending is the best ending " thread.

 it doesnt say  anything about that, it doesnt criticise you for not thinking it at all.
stop jumping to conclusions. its my interpretation.

[nikola8]

Destroy doesn't kill the crew, as the ending and EC clearly show.

I chose destroy because my Shepard started ME1 and ended ME3 with one purpose: to destroy the Reapers. I didn't save the Collector base in ME2 because the human reaper was an abomination to life- just as all Reapers are to the previous cycles. I don't fault people for choosing synthesis or control or reject, but I personally just couldn't bring myself to do it.

[ld1449]

Synthesis I find abhorrent in a story context because it completely breaks the significance of Edi, and the Geth and all that development we see of these two AI throughout ME2 and ME3.

Legion has been asking things like, ya know:

"Do we deserve death?"

"Does this unit have a Soul"

"No data available" (When questioned on the N7 armor.)

These things imply more than just cold logic, they imply philosophy, a desire to hold a sense of self and of self worth. If it wasn't enough to question their sense of self the desire to do such a thing alone implies that there's more than just a machine there because a machine already knows itself. It doesn't know hesitation it doesn't know uncertainty. Its aware of its programing and parameters.
The geth know the limitations they have on paper. and they want to know if they're not truly limited by those limitations. In the same way an organic isn't limited in how much he can imagine or how much he can dream.

Edi as well asks questions, all of which point to her self analyzing and "self modifying" in the same way that we grow and change our views over time. Back in the 80's being gay was taboo. Now being gay is practically viewed as normal. Our views change as we grow, just as her views change. Its not just hardware and software.

Synthesis however yanks this whole thing out from under you however because its not until synthesis that Edi is "Alive" even though she stated previously that "I am not like them. (Reapers) I am alive."

So all that emotion all that development is just crushed in ten seconds. And even worse, Synthesis' very existence removes the sacrifice present in the destruction ending.

Because if the Geth and Edi weren't alive in the first place; I just won and all I had to loose was my glorified calculator.

So yeah, Synthesis is horrible

[Bill Casey]

I don't fault people who choose Control or Reject...
I do fault people who choose Synthesis...

[darkpassenger2342]

ld1449 wrote...

Synthesis I find abhorrent in a story context because it completely breaks the significance of Edi, and the Geth and all that development we see of these two AI throughout ME2 and ME3.

Legion has been asking things like, ya know:

"Do we deserve death?"

"Does this unit have a Soul"

"No data available" (When questioned on the N7 armor.)

These things imply more than just cold logic, they imply philosophy, a desire to hold a sense of self and of self worth. If it wasn't enough to question their sense of self the desire to do such a thing alone implies that there's more than just a machine there because a machine already knows itself. It doesn't know hesitation it doesn't know uncertainty. Its aware of its programing and parameters.
The geth know the limitations they have on paper. and they want to know if they're not truly limited by those limitations. In the same way an organic isn't limited in how much he can imagine or how much he can dream.

Edi as well asks questions, all of which point to her self analyzing and "self modifying" in the same way that we grow and change our views over time. Back in the 80's being gay was taboo. Now being gay is practically viewed as normal. Our views change as we grow, just as her views change. Its not just hardware and software.

Synthesis however yanks this whole thing out from under you however because its not until synthesis that Edi is "Alive" even though she stated previously that "I am not like them. (Reapers) I am alive."

So all that emotion all that development is just crushed in ten seconds. And even worse, Synthesis' very existence removes the sacrifice present in the destruction ending.

Because if the Geth and Edi weren't alive in the first place; I just won and all I had to loose was my glorified calculator.

So yeah, Synthesis is horrible

 no, half your crew would be die too because the entire universe is dependent on synthetics, including yourself and your half-synthetic crew.

[Priss Blackburne]

Synthesis rewrites every living thing into something completely different from themselves. You are rewriting an entire galaxy, new species forming on unexplored worlds not even getting a chance to form their own societies or identities without being bombarded with knowledge beyond their comprehension.

It's the concept that for there to be peace everyone must be the exact same.

Synthesis sounds like a Utopia ending for a perfect society. But imposing it onto an entire universe without their consent is not the ethical thing to do. I cannot choose this ending for the underling currents of what the choice implies.

I must point out as well that all the endings have BIG Ethical problems with them. It's what makes them so fiercely debatable.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:19 .

[darkpassenger2342]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Synthesis rewrites every living thing into something completely different from themselves. You are rewriting an entire galaxy, new species forming on unexplored worlds not even getting a chance to form their own societies or identities without being bombarded with knowledge beyond their comprehension.

It's the concept that for there to be peace everyone must be the exact same.

Synthesis sounds like a Utopia ending for a perfect society. But imposing it onto an entire universe without their consent is not the ethical thing to do. I cannot choose this ending for the underling currents of what the choice implies.

I must point out as well that all the endings have BIG Ethical problems with them. It's what makes them so fiercely debatable.

 it never says anything about everyone becoming " the same" it says every living being and every synthetic being will understand...
 its not racial cleansing..
 i cant believe people can parallel it to a situation like the holocaust... wow.
 im not criticising you poster, im just adding on to the comment. i know thats not what you are saying, but others do.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:22 .

[Priss Blackburne]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...
 no, half your crew would be die too because the entire universe is dependent on synthetics, including yourself and your half-synthetic crew.

Not if you Build the crucible well enough..ie high enough ems, as after that even Shepard who is more syntheticly enhance than any other person survives.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:22 .

[ld1449]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...


 no, half your crew would be die too because the entire universe is dependent on synthetics, including yourself and your half-synthetic crew.

Half my crew? Who? I didn't see ships exploding. Not even reapers. They just collapsed. The only one with extensive cybernetics was Shepard and MAYBE Tali. Though Tali hardly has an AI in her suit.

Who exactly is dying?

And I'm not preaching for destroy I'm stating why Synthesis is a game/lore breaker.

[Priss Blackburne]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Synthesis rewrites every living thing into something completely different from themselves. You are rewriting an entire galaxy, new species forming on unexplored worlds not even getting a chance to form their own societies or identities without being bombarded with knowledge beyond their comprehension.

It's the concept that for there to be peace everyone must be the exact same.

Synthesis sounds like a Utopia ending for a perfect society. But imposing it onto an entire universe without their consent is not the ethical thing to do. I cannot choose this ending for the underling currents of what the choice implies.

I must point out as well that all the endings have BIG Ethical problems with them. It's what makes them so fiercely debatable.

 it never says anything about everyone becoming " the same" it says every living being and every synthetic being will understand...
 its not racial cleansing..
 i cant believe people can parallel it to a situation like the holocaust... wow.
 im not criticising you poster, im just adding on to the comment. i know thats not what you are saying, but others do.

where the heck do you get that from my dialogue?

Look at the slides every being turns into a synthetic/organic hybrid...your are changing their very being. Hell even the plants get turned into hybrids.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:25 .

[Darksaberexile]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...
 no, half your crew would be die too because the entire universe is dependent on synthetics, including yourself and your half-synthetic crew.

High-EMS destroy only harms things with a Reaper base to them, not anything with a synthetic basis to it.

This is clearly shown in game by a few things:
1. Hackett is shown with the surviving ships from the fleets that assaulted Earth.
2. Garrus is clearly alive on the Normandy during some EC scenes.
3. The Quarians didn't all die out (something you implied in your first post would happen).
4. Shepard is shown alive in rubble on the Citadel.
(I'm sure there's more, but I don't think an exhaustive list is needed)

Modifié par Darksaberexile, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:25 .

[darkpassenger2342]

wait i didnt say synthesis was horrible you messed that up please fix it really makes me look like im saying both things. thats another guys words.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:27 .

[darkpassenger2342]

priss, becoming hybrid doesnt mean they all become the same race. they still have unique characteristics.

[ld1449]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Synthesis rewrites every living thing into something completely different from themselves. You are rewriting an entire galaxy, new species forming on unexplored worlds not even getting a chance to form their own societies or identities without being bombarded with knowledge beyond their comprehension.

It's the concept that for there to be peace everyone must be the exact same.

Synthesis sounds like a Utopia ending for a perfect society. But imposing it onto an entire universe without their consent is not the ethical thing to do. I cannot choose this ending for the underling currents of what the choice implies.

I must point out as well that all the endings have BIG Ethical problems with them. It's what makes them so fiercely debatable.

 it never says anything about everyone becoming " the same" it says every living being and every synthetic being will understand...
 its not racial cleansing..
 i cant believe people can parallel it to a situation like the holocaust... wow.
 im not criticising you poster, im just adding on to the comment. i know thats not what you are saying, but others do.

People paralell it because its implied.

If I was just fighting these walking skyscrapers less than a year ago, the last thing I'd want is to have them rebuilding my home.

But now everyone is holding hands and singing a proverbial kumbaya with EDI stating something along the lines of all the knowledge of the previous cycles being used for good, not at all horrified at how many cycles that actually is.

People all working together with reapers implies a lack of disparragate opinion, it implies a unity that no organics could have. Look at us HERE HERE just LOOKING at synthesis in a GAME has half the players saying NO and has them arguing and debating back and forth. That's disparragate, that's free will and the ability to form opinions.

Here we have everyone aparently with the same opinion, the same morals and the same ease of acceptance of the Reapers help. THAT'S WHY people say this destroys all differences. The Krogan are a different species but they might as well be exactly the same as a Turian by what's implied.

There is no culture overcoming nature. Its tech overcoming both culture and nature. Something completely out of left field.

[Darksaberexile]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

wait i didnt say synthesis was horrible you messed that up please fix it really makes me look like im saying both things. thats another guys words.

I fixed it. Sorry, messed up editing the quote the first time. (It's 3:30AM, that's my excuse).

Wasn't trying to misrepresent what you said, just messed up lol.

[darkpassenger2342]

The Angry One wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Do people Ever CHOOSE to evolve???
does any creature? *cough * organic??
not that i can remember.
evolution never was, and never will be a choice.

Evolution is not moral. Evolution is not a sudden change on an existing being. Done here, you're just going around in circles now.

 i was on a renegade playthrough, why assume morals win out???
 when is the moral decision ever the only or best one?

[darkpassenger2342]

Darksaberexile wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

wait i didnt say synthesis was horrible you messed that up please fix it really makes me look like im saying both things. thats another guys words.

I fixed it. Sorry, messed up editing the quote the first time. (It's 3:30AM, that's my excuse).

Wasn't trying to misrepresent what you said, just messed up lol.

 no problem i just dont want every person thinking im arguing against what they have to say LOL
 theres both sides lol and i respect it

[semidefinite]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Do people Ever CHOOSE to evolve???
does any creature? *cough * organic??
not that i can remember.
evolution never was, and never will be a choice.

No individual has ever chosen to evolve. And no individual has ever evolved. Spices evolve. Populations evolve. Individuals do not. Ever. Please consult Wikipedia on what evolution is and how it works.

[Priss Blackburne]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Darksaberexile wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

wait i didnt say synthesis was horrible you messed that up please fix it really makes me look like im saying both things. thats another guys words.

I fixed it. Sorry, messed up editing the quote the first time. (It's 3:30AM, that's my excuse).

Wasn't trying to misrepresent what you said, just messed up lol.

 no problem i just dont want every person thinking im arguing against what they have to say LOL
 theres both sides lol and i respect it

then perhaps you should change the wording of your post title to something like "Why I chose synthesis"...or "why I think synthesis is a good option" ..instead of "Not choosing Synthesis is a slap in the face of every previous cycle, and makes their death for nothing" which will imediatly put people that think differently on the defensive, as it implies that anyone not taking synthesis is wrong.

These types of posts generaly devolve to bickering matches and get locked down.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[The Angry One]

semidefinite wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Do people Ever CHOOSE to evolve???
does any creature? *cough * organic??
not that i can remember.
evolution never was, and never will be a choice.

No individual has ever chosen to evolve. And no individual has ever evolved. Spices evolve. Populations evolve. Individuals do not. Ever. Please consult Wikipedia on what evolution is and how it works.

Don't bother, if there's one consistent trait among pro-synthesis people it's that they appear to have gotten their understanding of evolution from Pokemon.

[ld1449]

The Angry One wrote...

semidefinite wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Do people Ever CHOOSE to evolve???
does any creature? *cough * organic??
not that i can remember.
evolution never was, and never will be a choice.

No individual has ever chosen to evolve. And no individual has ever evolved. Spices evolve. Populations evolve. Individuals do not. Ever. Please consult Wikipedia on what evolution is and how it works.

Don't bother, if there's one consistent trait among pro-synthesis people it's that they appear to have gotten their understanding of evolution from Pokemon.

LOL

[darkpassenger2342]

@ The angry one
so why did they use the word evolution to describe this process in the ending ( numerous times) if I am the only who " doesnt understand the word?"
no reason to resort to that, angry one.
its not like i didnt watch what you watched. they use the word EVOLUTION plenty. i am aware of the literal definiton of the word, as well as the darwin sense of it..
just because you think the developers are idiots that have no understanding of english doesnt make it true.  if you can explain what EDI means by evolution that doesnt apply to what i have to say well, you can tell yourself you "win"

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:43 .

[The Angry One]

Because the writer didn't understand it either. This happens quite frequently in sci-fi, unfortunately.
That's all I have to say to you on that.

[ld1449]

...Passenger...you might wanna check that last statement.