461 réponses à ce sujet

[Priss Blackburne]

vixvicco wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Synthesis rewrites every living thing into something completely different from themselves. You are rewriting an entire galaxy, new species forming on unexplored worlds not even getting a chance to form their own societies or identities without being bombarded with knowledge beyond their comprehension.

It's the concept that for there to be peace everyone must be the exact same.

Synthesis sounds like a Utopia ending for a perfect society. But imposing it onto an entire universe without their consent is not the ethical thing to do. I cannot choose this ending for the underling currents of what the choice implies.

I must point out as well that all the endings have BIG Ethical problems with them. It's what makes them so fiercely debatable.

 it never says anything about everyone becoming " the same" it says every living being and every synthetic being will understand...
 its not racial cleansing..
 i cant believe people can parallel it to a situation like the holocaust... wow.
 im not criticising you poster, im just adding on to the comment. i know thats not what you are saying, but others do.

I agree with one thing you said. The holocaust comparisons are offensive. Some people on these forums are either immature or pea-brained. Somebody also compared one of the choices/geth or something to black slaves in America(back in the day...)or something like that. I don't like when people downplay real life events to prove a point. Plus, its not that serious a debate. 
I don't have a problem with Synthesis because of the DNA manipulation, my issue is the fact that the Reapers are pretty much given a free pass. Like a get out of jail free card or something. They murdered millions/billions of people for centuries or however long, and in my opinion, they need to answer for that. Synthesis is fine if the Reapers could still get killed. Control is not even an option for me, hence I chose Destroy. Just my opinion.

I'd like to just point out in no way did I say this had anything to do with that horrible event. The person replying to my post drew that analogy on their own. And I find saying that was what I was implying highly insulting.

It's saying that there can only be peace once everyone is the same in the way you cannot have peace between organics and synthetics unless they are made the same. ie into organic/synthetic hybrids.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Synthesis kills everyone...

 it doesnt kill ANYONE

You're right - it doesn't kill anyone; it does worse than that. Far worse.

As I've said a few hundred times in the past, Synthesis is a direct violation of basic organic dignity. It is fully submitting to your enemy's will without taking into account the underlying moral, ethical, political, biological, and social consequences. You're essentially Saren 2.0.

[KingZayd]

Yeah.. because Synthetics are the ones that killed them?

[Krunjar]

Yeah I hear the word violation a lot when it comes to synthesis. I guess people feel it's unnatural. So therefore I assume they live in trees. Eat there food raw and sh*t in the streets.

Or do you believe that your genes make you what you are. Man your horrible I guess all those people with genetic diseases really are just defectives to you huh?

I know those statements are extreme but I am fed up with people equating synthesis to genetic and/or sexual violation when the catalyst specifically states that it can only happen once life is ready for it. That isn't headcanon that is in the game. And that it would fail if life was not ready. The mere fact that it succeeded stops it from being a violation.

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:28 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

funny, because they said it was the ultimate evolution. i guess i have to choose between your word and theirs.

...Do you really not know what evolution is, or is this a joke?

EDIT: Krunjar, nothing you said makes any sense.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:29 .

[Krunjar]

I am replying to the multiple people who are against synthesis based on an overblown sense of personal purity. If you don't understand it that's not my problem.

I believe the last person to drag out that old schtick was fiery phoenix man you didn't read back much before dismissing me did you ?

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:31 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

I read the entire thread, actually.

What you said still doesn't make sense.

[Krunjar]

Then youre just thick.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Krunjar wrote...

Yeah I hear the word violation a lot when it comes to synthesis. I guess people feel it's unnatural. So therefore I assume they live in trees. Eat there food raw and sh*t in the streets.

Or do you believe that your genes make you what you are. Man your horrible I guess all those people with genetic diseases really are just defectives to you huh?

I know those statements are extreme but I am fed up with people equating synthesis to genetic and/or sexual violation when the catalyst specifically states that it can only happen once life is ready for it. That isn't headcanon that is in the game. And that it would fail if life was not ready. The mere fact that it succeeded stops it from being a violation.

No worries, I totally understand where you're coming from. I just happen to disagree with it. Like, totally.

Even if we ignore the ethical side of Synthesis, you can't say it isn't submission. In my humble opinion, submission is worse than extinction. Better to die a hero than to live a slave. By choosing Synthesis, you are taking your enemy's word at face value, complete with putting aside everything you've stood for up to that point.

The fact that the Catalyst believes Synthesis to be the "ideal solution" says enough to me. You cannot let your enemy define peace for you.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Then youre just thick.

Oh word. You sure showed me.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .

[Krunjar]

Well Fiery understood lol. And If he/she still disagrees il just have to respect his/her right to do so. I stated my opinion and ive nothing further to add to it

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[PsyrenY]

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

[darkpassenger2342]

Random Jerkface wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

funny, because they said it was the ultimate evolution. i guess i have to choose between your word and theirs.

...Do you really not know what evolution is, or is this a joke?

EDIT: Krunjar, nothing you said makes any sense.

it is what is stated in the game. have you not seen the ending you are critcising?
 edi and the catalyst both refer to synthesis as the final evolution.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

[darkpassenger2342]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

the reapers dont think for themselves, synthesis is what the creators of the reapers intended. you speak of the reapers as if they appeared from nowhere, aware and thinking individually.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:43 .

[Soultaker08]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

The argument " this is what our enemy wants" becomes invalid when new information is offered, or the outcome changes, saying no just to say no isnt an argument

[What a Succulent Ass]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

it is what is stated in the game.

Since you're typing intelligibly on an Internet forum, you have presumably been exposed to some form of education.

So I don't think it's going to surprise you when I say that fiction writers often don't know what they're talking about, and video games aren't the best source of factual information.

[Krunjar]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

Yeah but .. just because it's what the reapers want does that make it submission? If it's what the reapers want and its what you want then doesnt that make it a diplomatic solution? or possibly an agreement? It seems self limiting to throw away an option just because it happens to be what youre enemy wants as well.

@ RandomJerkface

We are discussing mass effect 3's endings not real life. Therefore what is said in game is in fact MORE relevant than current scientific theory.

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:47 .

[PsyrenY]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

Just because the Reapers want it doesn't make it bad. That is textbook Association Fallacy.

Synthesis has innate benefits independent of which party considers it desirable. The original endings didn't elaborate on what those benefits were, leaving them entirely to speculation; EC did. And nowhere in either of them is submission to Reapers shown or implied.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

 it never says anything about everyone becoming " the same" it says every living being and every synthetic being will understand...
 its not racial cleansing..
 i cant believe people can parallel it to a situation like the holocaust... wow.
 im not criticising you poster, im just adding on to the comment. i know thats not what you are saying, but others do.

Comparisons to Hitler and the Holocaust are all too common among hardcore trolls. Anyone who compares something to Hitler has already lost the arguement.

As for me, Ieldra's feelings on Synthesis are similar to how I feel.

Honestly, I would have preffered the Reapers reasons for reaping be what tehy were implied to be in ME2. Their version of reproduction. Makes them much more Lovecraft-esque. But instead, BW had to go into philosphical territory.

Modifié par Ranger Jack Walker, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:47 .

[Fawx9]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

the reapers dont think for themselves, synthesis is what the creators of the reapers intended. you speak of the reapers as if they appeared from nowhere, aware and thinking individually.

You know expect for the part where star jar syays they didn't aprove when he went from peace talks to turning them into goo

[darkpassenger2342]

Random Jerkface wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

it is what is stated in the game.

Since you're typing intelligibly on an Internet forum, you have presumably been exposed to some form of education.

So I don't think it's going to surprise you when I say that fiction writers often don't know what they're talking about, and video games aren't the best source of factual information.

so then why are you here to argue fiction with everyone else?? do you think we are debating something that actually happened? i didnt need mass effect 3 to define evolution, i was aware of it. i am also aware that living robots and sentient beings are BS. why so much comparison with this ending to real life? the entire world of mass effect is a work of fiction.

[Priss Blackburne]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

funny, because they said it was the ultimate evolution. i guess i have to choose between your word and theirs.

...Do you really not know what evolution is, or is this a joke?

EDIT: Krunjar, nothing you said makes any sense.

it is what is stated in the game. have you not seen the ending you are critcising?
 edi and the catalyst both refer to synthesis as the final evolution.

Yet legion stated that the reapers offered to evolve their race but they refused because they wanted to find their own way. And they did not join the Reapers beleieving that organics had the right to self determination.

And I beleieve EDI states so after the fact it has allready been done. <_<

The whole of ME3 seems to be to turn around every theme set forth in the previous games backwards it almost seems.

Everyone has to right to determine their own destiny...nope gotta force it on people.
Synthetics and organics don't have to fight there can be peace...nope can only be conflict

Mass effect 1
Saren : The reapers offer synthesis the ultimate evolution
Shepard :" I'd rather die then become like you"

Mass Effect 3
Catalyst :synthesis is the ultimate evolution of your kind
Shepard: "wow that's a good idea let's make the entire galaxy like that"

I would not have such an issuies with synthesis or the endings if it did not throw out all the previous games themes.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:53 .

[gert56nom]

I only recently got the EC over here to play through myself, but I have to say Synthesis is just creepy, considering EDI , Legion & suchs opinions during the game

[Ryzaki]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

It's not submission. To say that it is requires willfully ignoring everything that the game actually tells you about it.

It's kind of sad that people will go to such lengths to heap hate on a choice they don't personally like.

I'm aware of what the game tells me about it, to be honest. I still don't see how it isn't submission. I mean, it's literally what the Reapers want.

Just because the Reapers want it doesn't make it bad. That is textbook Association Fallacy.

Synthesis has innate benefits independent of which party considers it desirable. The original endings didn't elaborate on what those benefits were, leaving them entirely to speculation; EC did. And nowhere in either of them is submission to Reapers shown or implied.

Submission isn't automatically bad either. Any maschoist could tell you that.

Synthesis is still a submission. Even if you get something out of it if you give into your enemy's demands so they'll stop attacking you...you submitted.