461 réponses à ce sujet

[What a Succulent Ass]

When we make war on others do we ask the inevitable (if few) civilian casualties if its ok to destroy their bodies?

That's a false equivalency. Eugenics =/= war.

Yet people accept this as inevitable because there is no other way.

Coming from a region where people are regularly killed in the name of dumb sh*t, I can assure you, there are other ways. People are just ****s.

It seems a delusion of the western world

I'm not a Westerner.

[Krunjar]

Yeah if you look at the Normandy crash scene you can see circuit like lights under the leaves of the trees.

[What a Succulent Ass]

YO, SINCE WHEN DOES THIS FORUM SENSOR "ARSE"?

THE CANADIANS ARE ONTO US.

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

There's one thing I don't understand about synthesis. Does it affect everything in galaxy? Does trees for example become part synthetic too?

According to the leaves, yeah.

[Ticonderoga117]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

There's one thing I don't understand about synthesis. Does it affect everything in galaxy? Does trees for example become part synthetic too?

Yes, yes they do. Because it's

[D24O]

What page did this discussion become offensive?

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Krunjar wrote...

Yeah if you look at the Normandy crash scene you can see circuit like lights under the leaves of the trees.

Damn. That's crazy. I always wondered if I were seeing things, or if those leaves actually did look different. Cool.

[Malditor]

Random Jerkface wrote...

When we make war on others do we ask the inevitable (if few) civilian casualties if its ok to destroy their bodies?

That's a false equivalency. Eugenics =/= war.

Yet people accept this as inevitable because there is no other way.

Coming from a region where people are regularly killed in the name of dumb sh*t, I can assure you, there are other ways. People are just ****s.

It seems a delusion of the western world

I'm not a Westerner.

synthesis != eugenics
Don't know why people keep trying to push this idea.

[The Angry One]

Krunjar wrote...

Didn't say war was a good thing ... only that it is inevitable. Sorry I edited my post so you may want to look at what I added to it. Cos I didn't think I made the best case for my opinion before.

Synthesis isn't inevitable though. Not on that scale.
Even if a society comes to the point where it compels it's people to augment themselves to survive (and that'd be a pretty ****ty society), it wouldn't affect the rest of the galaxy.
Synthesis affects everyone no matter their beliefs, society or level or advancement, down to the plants. That's why it's fundamentally wrong.

[Krunjar]

Random Jerkface wrote...

When we make war on others do we ask the inevitable (if few) civilian casualties if its ok to destroy their bodies?

That's a false equivalency. Eugenics =/= war.

Yet people accept this as inevitable because there is no other way.

Coming from a region where people are regularly killed in the name of dumb sh*t, I can assure you, there are other ways. People are just ****s.

It seems a delusion of the western world

I'm not a Westerner.

1. Didn't mean to say that eugenics was the same as war. But it is  still equally a forced change to our lives. That's my opinion you don't have to share it.

2. Singular conflicts can end but as long as we struggle over limited resources there will never be an end to conflict. I think if there was one someone would have found it by now. Theres been enough god damn people searching. Not that I am praising or extolling conflict. Just going by all available  evidence there really is no stopping it till everyone has everything they want. Because some little sh*te will never be happy with his slice of the cake.

3. I guess you still believe that one day conflict can be solved if nothing else I admire that about you. But from what I have seen and understood conflict comes with the territory of simply being human. We are tribal and that creates social structures akin to nations and we fight with other nations over the resources to obtain the lives we desire. Oh we make all kinds of excuses But in the end it comes down to the aquisition of wealth. Either in this life or if you  believe in it the next. You are right in that I should not have said it was a western argument. That was rather narrow minded of me.

[ghost9191]

i too listened to Edi's speech, loved this part

"As the line between synthetic and organic disappears, we may transcend mortality itself.. To reach a level of existence i cannot even imagine"

Like that totally doesn't sound like becoming a reaper

in my eyes, and to op i think your definition of android is off if you believe Miranda to be one

[What a Succulent Ass]

synthesis != eugenics

Eugenics as a social movement isn't just about controlled breeding--the latter is only a mechanism. Eugenics is the purposeful manipulation of the genetic composition of a population with the motive of improvement...which is often and unfortunately toward a single ideal.

If that's not what synthesis is, it's practically indistinguishable.

[Krunjar]

Hmm guess I'm not as opposed to the idea of Eugenics as I thought I was then. It's become an ugly word because of the people who have tried it and the methods and ideals they chose. But is the very principle of self-improving a species truly abhorrent all on it's own? I realize that I am probably setting myself up for the biggest forum backlash in recorded history but .. I think not.

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:48 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...
But is the very principle of self-improving a species truly abhorrent all on it's own?

When it's just one man, or a small group of people, deciding on how things are going to progress towards "better'.... YES!

[The Angry One]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...
But is the very principle of self-improving a species truly abhorrent all on it's own?

When it's just one man, or a small group of people, deciding on how things are going to progress towards "better'.... YES!

Basically this. Synthesis is but one ideal of many.
And again, you're not just forcing "improvement" on a species, but EVERYTHING. Every species, every plant, every insect, every eco-system. Everything has to change because the Reapers say so.

[Baronesa]

Random Jerkface wrote...

synthesis != eugenics

Eugenics as a social movement isn't just about controlled breeding--the latter is only a mechanism. Eugenics is the purposeful manipulation of the genetic composition of a population with the motive of improvement...which is often and unfortunately toward a single ideal.

If that's not what synthesis is, it's practically indistinguishable.

Well said.

[Krunjar]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...
But is the very principle of self-improving a species truly abhorrent all on it's own?

When it's just one man, or a small group of people, deciding on how things are going to progress towards "better'.... YES!

Yeah but combine that with my previous argument that I believe one man choosing for everyone  is inevitable from the moment he is given the choice. And it's  not such a cut and dried argument anymore. Shepard will choose for everyone. If he chooses refusal this cycle will die. If he chooses detroy The Geth and Edi will die. If he chooses control the souls of all those reaped will be forever his slaves. If he chooses Synthesis the structure of life will change regardless of it's own will.

Regardless no consent will be given.  But I think it is far less horrifying that these choices where given to the hero of the galaxy who in most cases had to sacrifice his life (His life as a human still comes to an end in control) to  see his ideal come to pass. It's not an Ideal solution but very few problems have one of those. Shepard if no one else has earned the right to make that choice. All confined to the ME universe of course im not going to get into a real life discussion.

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:01 .

[Siansonea]

This thread title makes me chuckle. The very idea of Synthesis is offensive, so how could a discussion in favor of Synthesis be inoffensive somehow?

[D24O]

Siansonea II wrote...

This thread title makes me chuckle. The very idea of Synthesis is offensive, so how could a discussion in favor of Synthesis be inoffensive somehow?

Plus it became offensive right out the gate, that was funny. But then agian, what else would you expect here.

[Krunjar]

The Angry One wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Didn't say war was a good thing ... only that it is inevitable. Sorry I edited my post so you may want to look at what I added to it. Cos I didn't think I made the best case for my opinion before.

Synthesis isn't inevitable though. Not on that scale.
Even if a society comes to the point where it compels it's people to augment themselves to survive (and that'd be a pretty ****ty society), it wouldn't affect the rest of the galaxy.
Synthesis affects everyone no matter their beliefs, society or level or advancement, down to the plants. That's why it's fundamentally wrong.

Within  the ME universe synthesis is inevitable the catalayst himself states that this is so. If not in this cycle then in future ones. If that is so .. why delay? 

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...
Yeah but combine that with my previous argument that I believe one man choosing for everyone  is inevitable from the moment he is given the choice. And it's  not such a cut and dried argument anymore. Shepard will choose for everyone. If he chooses refusal this cycle will die. If he chooses detroy The Geth and Edi will die. If he chooses control the souls of all those reaped will be forever his slaves. If he chooses Synthesis the structure of life will change regardless of it's own will.

Regardless no consent will be given.  But I think it is far less horrifying that these choices where given to the hero of the galaxy who in most cases had to sacrifice his life (His life as a human still comes to an end in control) to  see his ideal come to pass. It's not an Ideal solution but very few problems have one of those. Shepard if no one else has earned the right to make that choice. All confined to the ME universe of course im not going to get into a real life discussion.

Refuse says otherwise.
And that is why the endings are abhorrent. One man playing god with the galaxy? Shepard is good but he is not that good. He may not even be a hero! Renegade Shep can be pretty dang brutal.
NO ONE, ever, has that right. If they think otherwise, they shouldn't be making that choice.

[ghost9191]

Krunjar wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...
But is the very principle of self-improving a species truly abhorrent all on it's own?

When it's just one man, or a small group of people, deciding on how things are going to progress towards "better'.... YES!

Yeah but combine that with my previous argument that I believe one man choosing for everyone  is inevitable from the moment he is given the choice. And it's  not such a cut and dried argument anymore. Shepard will choose for everyone. If he chooses refusal this cycle will die. If he chooses detroy The Geth and Edi will die. If he chooses control the souls of all those reaped will be forever his slaves. If he chooses Synthesis the structure of life will change regardless of it's own will.

Regardless no consent will be given.  But I think it is far less horrifying that these choices where given to the hero of the galaxy who in most cases had to sacrifice his life (His life as a human still comes to an end in control) to  see his ideal come to pass. It's not an Ideal solution but very few problems have one of those. Shepard if no one else has earned the right to make that choice. All confined to the ME universe of course im not going to get into a real life discussion.

not saying destroy was the right choice, none are but if there were a choice that everyone consented to , it would be destroy. That was what the crucible was built to do. and to be fair, it is the geths fault for not thinking, hmm maybe a weapon that targets reapers might have a affect on us considering we have reaper tech.

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...
Within  the ME universe synthesis is inevitable the catalayst himself states that this is so. If not in this cycle then in future ones. If that is so .. why delay?

Because we aren't ready and "You cannot force the change."

Read that line again.

YOU. CANNOT. FORCE. THE. CHANGE.

[Baronesa]

Krunjar wrote...

Within  the ME universe synthesis is inevitable the catalayst himself states that this is so. If not in this cycle then in future ones. If that is so .. why delay? 

But why are you trusting what the Catalyst says? what reasons do you have for that?

The Catalyst might as well say that all cows will turn pink and have wings and no matter how inevitable he says that will be, I still won't believe it.

[The Angry One]

Even if it WAS inevitable for certain elements of certain societies, it's not inevitable for EVERYONE.
That's a complete fallacy.

[Krunjar]

Baronesa wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Within  the ME universe synthesis is inevitable the catalayst himself states that this is so. If not in this cycle then in future ones. If that is so .. why delay? 

But why are you trusting what the Catalyst says? what reasons do you have for that?

The Catalyst might as well say that all cows will turn pink and have wings and no matter how inevitable he says that will be, I still won't believe it.

Because he saved me from dieing right next to Anderson and braught me up  to  the crucible and laid the choice at my feet rather than simply continue the cycle which was well within his power without me. Not only that the option  to destroy him and everything he ever worked for was presented to me. I don't know about you but to me that engendred some trust. He well and truly put his cards on the table.

Modifié par Krunjar, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .