461 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

and pretty sure by " synthesis is inevitable" he may just mean that one they will achieve in one of cycles, now that he knows it can be done. Or sooner or later humans(and other aliens) will combine themselves with synthetics, which i think had been done once in the ME universe and didn't work too well

[What a Succulent Ass]

Even if that's the case for one species, synthesis changes all organisms in all the galaxy, forever. So still untrue.

[Baronesa]

ghost9191 wrote...

and pretty sure by " synthesis is inevitable" he may just mean that one they will achieve in one of cycles, now that he knows it can be done. Or sooner or later humans(and other aliens) will combine themselves with synthetics, which i think had been done once in the ME universe and didn't work too well

And if it means that eventually the civilizations will combine themselvs with synthetic parts etc... well... if it is their will, their decision... then that is perfectly fine.. because no one would be forcing them!

Seems there is a lack of understanding of this simple idea: "My body, my decision, my life!"

Modifié par Baronesa, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:17 .

[ghost9191]

yeah and it wasn't the catalyst that brought shep up right? i mean if it was then why ask in the ending with low ems " why are you here" if it brought shep up

and even if one species achieves synthesis they will probably ask ppl first , only those that wish for the upgrade will have it. But that would probably cause a split in the race

[Krunjar]

ghost9191 wrote...

yeah and it wasn't the catalyst that brought shep up right? i mean if it was then why ask in the ending with low ems " why are you here" if it brought shep up

and even if one species achieves synthesis they will probably ask ppl first , only those that wish for the upgrade will have it. But that would probably cause a split in the race

Haven't seen that ending myself.  But it could mean that in that interpration he is not certain that shepard is worthy of making the choice. Or did not believe that he would come this far.

Im getting out of this discussion though. I don't ascribe to the idea that DNA is somehow "sacred" and that seems to annoy alot of people.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I don't remember anyone saying DNA was sacred.

[Krunjar]

The mere implication that DNA is something that can be violated just by touching it marks it as sacred. I don't mean that in the religious sense. But anti synthesists connect it with some kind of violation of rights. And I don't agree. We never had any control of our DNA from the start and though it has a huge affect on our lives it does not define us. It's just a blueprint for our bodies no more inviolate than an engineers diagram. What we are is so much more than that. To some it might seem that I cheapen the value of life with my opinions. But it is quite the opposite. I believe that to hold DNA as inviolate is in itself to cheapen sentience. And limit ourselves with no good reason.

[Baronesa]

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

[Krunjar]

I argue that is inevitable from the moment you are given the decision you must decide for everyone even refusal is a decision for everyone. The other choices no less so than synthesis. The only reason to single out synthesis is the idea that DNA is inviolate.

This is my very last post on this topic though as i am now repeating myself.

[Xilizhra]

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

I don't think it's "everything." In Destroy, the Catalyst claims that all synthetics will be destroyed... but most machines survive just fine, including VIs, as seen by starships still being functional. So it was far more specific than his sweeping generalities suggest. Given that the amount of energy necessary for this kind of thing is enormous anyway, I think it'll only directly alter sapient life currently using synthetics. As for it being a violation, I believe you need to first know its effects before you can claim unequivocally that it's truly a violation. Otherwise it's an unknown.

[Baronesa]

Xilizhra wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

I don't think it's "everything." In Destroy, the Catalyst claims that all synthetics will be destroyed... but most machines survive just fine, including VIs, as seen by starships still being functional. So it was far more specific than his sweeping generalities suggest. Given that the amount of energy necessary for this kind of thing is enormous anyway, I think it'll only directly alter sapient life currently using synthetics. As for it being a violation, I believe you need to first know its effects before you can claim unequivocally that it's truly a violation. Otherwise it's an unknown.

Considering that we see leaves with circuitry on the jungle planet, then it seems to affect ALL life.

It does not matter if the effects are positive or not, the fact that the change was forced is the problem.

[Siansonea]

Baronesa wrote...

If you want to modify your DNA... have at it... just don't force YOUR decision on me.

That is the problem.

YOUR decision affects EVERYONE.

That is a violation on everyone's freedom. You violate every organic creature, plants, insects, sentient life at different stages of development... all because of your decision

They're never going to get it. They think it's perfectly reasonable to modify someone else's DNA. They don't see the horrific invasion of personal autonomy. They're getting better Wi-Fi, that's all they care about. You can't make people see the inherent problem of Synthesis, because it really boils down to "look how neat the glowy green eyes are, I want that!!!!" <_<

[Xilizhra]

Considering that we see leaves with circuitry on the jungle planet, then it seems to affect ALL life.

Hmmm, fascinating if true...

It does not matter if the effects are positive or not, the fact that the change was forced is the problem.

A reasonable stance to take.

[Udalango]

The Angry One wrote...

Synthesis is a violation of all life, and it spits on every being that sacrificed everything to fight the Reapers.
Like all evil, it wears the face of good to spread it's vile propaganda.

It is the worst, most hideous thing you could ever do. You use Jack as an example? JACK? Someone who was experimented on AGAINST HER WILL, who tattooed herself to cover up the scars just so she could stop being reminded of how they violated her every single day? Who suffers for it constantly?
Jack is the poster-child of why synthesis is wrong. It doesn't matter if they made her "better". They did it without her consent!

Especially when she says straight up at one point "Let me die as me dont go into my brain and eff things up"  or something to that effect 

[Xilizhra]

They're never going to get it. They think it's perfectly reasonable to modify someone else's DNA. They don't see the horrific invasion of personal autonomy. They're getting better Wi-Fi, that's all they care about. You can't make people see the inherent problem of Synthesis, because it really boils down to "look how neat the glowy green eyes are, I want that!!!!"

I won't decry your beliefs on this subject, but please don't think that people who want Synthesis make the choice with any thought in their mind other than that it's the best for the galaxy.

Especially when she says straight up at one point "Let me die as me dont go into my brain and eff things up" or something to that effect

That was in reference to rewriting the heretics. Which she's not completely right about.

[JPR1964]

WTF...

No, evolution is the way how ORGANICS adapt themselves to their environment...

Synthesis is not evolution, it's a freaking mutation imposed by a fanatical emotionnaly void AI to everyone in the galaxy... Hello everyone, welcome to monsters Galaxy : we're all one with our creator, starbrat the doom AI of death, who has just enginered countless genocide across million of years...

I will never understand this solution...

JPR out!

[Udalango]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

the theory of evolution applies to LIVING things.
the definition of evolution applies to inanimate objects as well...... cars, planes, society can EVOLVE..
amazing.... you guys overstating this misinterpretation of evolution are way out on a limb.
and going out of your way to insult me when i am not misunderstanding anything.
i suppose the ending was all a lie to some of you, but i believed it and they said it was the final form of evolution...
 you trying to change the word doesnt change the ending... wow.

If you believe that Evolution has one final stop than you really dont understand it.  Evolution is on going and will always be on going.  Saying this contradicts your own argument against everyone not being the same in the end.

If everyone is the same then evolution has finally found its "Winner"  If you say that we arent the same that means we are all still evolving continuosly.  Please pick one side and stick with it

[Udalango]

Xilizhra wrote...

Especially when she says straight up at one point "Let me die as me dont go into my brain and eff things up" or something to that effect

That was in reference to rewriting the heretics. Which she's not completely right about.

She might not be completely right, but the point still stands.  Jack is the one character in the series who would violently oppose being changed in any small way, let alone a genetic rewrite.  

[Malditor]

Like I said before, there is almost no way to have a non-emotional "offensive" discussion on this topic. Very few people who are against it can look at it without an emotional response of some form.
I'm not saying if you don't like the choice you are wrong, everyone is entitled to how they feel. However, for some reason it seems to make them think they have the right to belittle or berate anyone who does think it's a good choice.
In this day and age I'm pretty sure most people would reject synthesis, as evidenced by the reactions we see in these threads. However in the future who knows what the reaction would be, especially in a setting like the ME universe where people are very much ok with synthetic implants/augmentations. Nothing in game shows me that people are against technological improvement of their bodies, outside of a few individuals perhaps. If there were multiple incidents of large groups of people saying that cybernetic implants were wrong and people who used them were abominations I would highly doubt many, if any would have chosen this ending. Truly doubt it would even be an option at the end at all.

[Xilizhra]

Udalango wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Especially when she says straight up at one point "Let me die as me dont go into my brain and eff things up" or something to that effect

That was in reference to rewriting the heretics. Which she's not completely right about.

She might not be completely right, but the point still stands.  Jack is the one character in the series who would violently oppose being changed in any small way, let alone a genetic rewrite.  

If she was just told in the vaguest possible sense about the genetic rewrite and left to imagine the worst things that might come of it, then yes, she'd be against it. Actually just having it happen seems to be different.

[Udalango]

Krunjar wrote...


I know those statements are extreme but I am fed up with people equating synthesis to genetic and/or sexual violation when the catalyst specifically states that it can only happen once life is ready for it. That isn't headcanon that is in the game. And that it would fail if life was not ready. The mere fact that it succeeded stops it from being a violation.

"It can only happen when life is ready for it.....but go ahead and force it on them now!"

You see the problem with you defending that right

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well, given the news that Keiji's Grey Box is now sapient in the Synthesis ending..... Yikes. Implications unpleasant.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Malditor wrote...

I think you're missing the point. It's not about being against the idea of genetic or cybernetic augmentation.

[Xilizhra]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Well, given the news that Keiji's Grey Box is now sapient in the Synthesis ending..... Yikes. Implications unpleasant.

How are they unpleasant? It's glorious. Not only is life far easier to restore, but it can be restored in a form that takes up relatively little room and consumes few resources, which at least buys time away from the logistical issues of immortality. Not only that, if Shepard has a greybox, she can come back too.

[Malditor]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I think you're missing the point. It's not about being against the idea of genetic or cybernetic augmentation.

Not really, if almost everyone in the universe is ok with genetic or cybernetic augmentation that is a major contributing factor to whether they would be against something genetically altering them.
People today are very closed about body modifications, even plastic surgery, tattoos, piercings, plugs, etc are still somewhat to majorly looked down upon. This leads so many people to believe that synthesis is a huge violation as it is a modification to their body.

Modifié par Malditor, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .