122 réponses à ce sujet

[WardenWade]

Faerunner wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Also they are addicted to the backwards step of voiced protagonists. Elves, dwarves and humans sound different from one another due to physiology as well as accents and cultural backgrounds. A game with origins would then have to have at least two voice overs (male and female) for each race, and then would a dwarf noble have the same sound as one raised in Dust town?

Not necessarily true. We've heard elves, dwarves and humans with a wide vocal range. We've heard dwarves with tennors and elves with baritones, and every race with every pitch in between. And since accents are a cultural thing, the same protagonist of different races can have the same voice actor, with the same accent explained with the right background.

Before Fenris, most players didn't think an elf could have a British accent, yet there he is. Depending on where they're from, many elves can have many different accents. So far, we've heard British (Fenris), French (Erlina), Spanish (Zevran), Welsh (Merrill), Irish (Sabre Clan), and North American (City Elves). Theoretically, a surface dwarf who's spent enough time among humans could pick up their speech patterns too.

It's not undoable.

Agreed.  IMO it doesn't seem insurmountable.  And given recent comments by Mr. Gaider on the VA front in general, it seems like it may not be a massive obstacle to the devs either.  And as has been mentioned it would add a great deal to the replay value of the game. 

[Cutlasskiwi]

If they're handled like DAO then no, I don't really want them back. If they have some real impact in how quests turns out or quests available then yeah, I want origins.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

seeloganrun wrote...

But Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! And BG didn't lock you into a specific backstory! Oh wait...

Not anymore.

[eratis]

Not really.

They weren't handled all that well in the first one. Occasionally you'd get a greeting that amounted to "HOLY CRAP a dwarf!", and some lines about the Chantry changed to say "Because I'm a dwarf I do not know of this 'Maker' you speak of." But that's it. You still do the same quests every runthrough. If, say, I could avoid the entirety of the Fade section as a dwarf, that's a big difference. Or if the Landsmeet was significantly easier for a human noble to complete successfully. Or Dalish elves automatically got the support of the Dalish, with the werewolf section becoming a sidequest in that game. Things like that. But, with a few, notable exceptions, origin just didn't make a difference. And, given BioWare's explicit, heavy focus on cinematic storytelling, it's increasingly difficult to make these differences significant.

This is the kind of thing that's difficult to include in modern games, where conversations not only require scripting, but voice acting, blocking, new models, sometimes special effects... It's the kind of thing I'd love to see an indie developer pick up on, a throwback to the RPGs of old with lofi graphics but tons of attention to detail.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

WardenWade wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Also they are addicted to the backwards step of voiced protagonists. Elves, dwarves and humans sound different from one another due to physiology as well as accents and cultural backgrounds. A game with origins would then have to have at least two voice overs (male and female) for each race, and then would a dwarf noble have the same sound as one raised in Dust town?

Not necessarily true. We've heard elves, dwarves and humans with a wide vocal range. We've heard dwarves with tennors and elves with baritones, and every race with every pitch in between. And since accents are a cultural thing, the same protagonist of different races can have the same voice actor, with the same accent explained with the right background.

Before Fenris, most players didn't think an elf could have a British accent, yet there he is. Depending on where they're from, many elves can have many different accents. So far, we've heard British (Fenris), French (Erlina), Spanish (Zevran), Welsh (Merrill), Irish (Sabre Clan), and North American (City Elves). Theoretically, a surface dwarf who's spent enough time among humans could pick up their speech patterns too.

It's not undoable.

Agreed.  IMO it doesn't seem insurmountable.  And given recent comments by Mr. Gaider on the VA front in general, it seems like it may not be a massive obstacle to the devs either.  And as has been mentioned it would add a great deal to the replay value of the game. 

Okay, I just think Hawke's stilted English accent from DA 2 (as an example) would be a rather poor fit for a Dalish elf or a dwarf from Dust Town. It severely limits the Origin options for me and we end up with flat voice acting that lacks personality if we try to make one voice fit all scenerios. Then what's the point of a voice actor for the main character? I just think it's highly improbable that it can be pulled off and be of any significant quality.

I think the different backgrounds would also be a large issue if the voice actor couldn't bring up their lore from the Origins. Perhaps they can have one male and one female voice actor with doing a variety of different accents and tones, reading different scripts for the races/backgrounds they represent. But they would have to hire some rather talented actors to pull that off convincingly and it would be a bit of a letdown for me if my Dwarf sounded just like my Human character.

Modifié par Ryllen Laerth Kriel, 14 juillet 2012 - 12:25 .

[KiwiQuiche]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

This is so stupid....
Why bring orgins back for 3.......
It's time to wrap of the story of dragon age you silly person .

Don't you wanna add a few more insults in there?

[Zubie]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

This is so stupid....
Why bring orgins back for 3.......
It's time to wrap of the story of dragon age you silly person .

I'm curious. What is the story of dragon age? Thedas encompasses many stories within its lore. 

[TheDevian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

Origins > fixed PC

Blank Slate > Origins > Fixed PC

As much as I like the Blank Slate in general, the Origins are better in most respects, you do lose a bit of the openess of the blank slate, but you gain background of your race, your culture, your cultures place in and opinions of the world, and other cultures, and you gain perspective and history of the owrld itself.
So, Oigins > Blank Slate > Other > Fixed PC. And Blank Slate as one of the Origins is the best of all. The problems with blank slate are that a you get less back ground on the world and racial preferences, and no one reacts to your origin at all, in any way shpe or form.
As Limiting as the origins could be (and yes, I think there could have been a lot more references to it in game), the resons for the lack of some of it was because being a Warden took presidence. But as Faerunner said, there were a lot of reactions, especially when you run into someone approprate, Like the Dwarf merchant if you are a Dwarf Noble, or Tamlin if you are Dalish (one of my favorite moments), Arl Howe if you are a human nobel, and so on. (Though the human nobel one, and some others, had huge holes in them, like we can't take dad to a healer, cause he will die, but I have a back pack full of potions.... same with guys in other places too).

Not only should we have all of the ones (or close to it) from Origins, but Kossith, Tivinter, Surface Dwarf, and maybe others, depending on the plot, like Chantry, Apostate, etc. Fex? I am down.

I would have also liked to see more options for a non-religious or other religions responces to in game dogma. Even if I did play a human (it happens occationally, though if 3 is human only I won't buy it either, and the friend who gave me his copy of 2 is not likely to buy it unseen again either), I would want the option to tell the chantry fools they are full of it, and if they are especially pompous to shove their chantry where the maker don't shine! 

I expect from a sequel most of what made the first game so great (and for me Origins were one of those things) and more of it. (and better grafix, should just be a given). Like I don't 'need' those references, but I like them, they make my playthrough feel more unique. It was the little touches like that that so endeared Origins to me in the first place.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Also, I think Bethesda's use of action combat anti-roleplaying.

I can not possibly agree with this statement any more than I do, why bother building up stats and skills if performing the action is still based on my hand eye coordenation/ability to click in the right place at the right time? If I wanted that I would play an action/fps game.
And I also agree with those who have said that the voiced protagonist takes way more away from the resources of the rest of the game, space wise if nothng else, than all 6 of the origins before. Though the slider bars that adjust the pitch and tone of the voice would go a long way toward making it workable, as a compromise, as wasteful as I think it is, just because some people don't like to read. I really hate that they chose to go this route without being willing to spend the resources to do it right.

"Wrap it up"? If they don't mess it up like they did in 2 again I hope this IP goes on for many years/sequels to come, it started as one of the only ones left that came close to a real RPG, as close at it will get anyway. This isn't a trilligy, though it could end up being one if they continue down the path they have been going.

Never saw ME's, I played about 10 min into 2 and couldn't stand it's FPS-ness, and never touched any of them.
And nothing about Skyrim matters, because the UI and the controls are so clunky it is unplayable for me on the PC.

character development or another 6 months of production

that's not where the or goes, but yes, I vote for more production time every time, for more char development, more areas, more stories, more everything except bugs and plot holes. Plot holes are bad, mmmm'kay. Bugs can be fixed, plot holes almost never are.

I too hope the elves go back to looking good, like in Origins, and The Kossith go back to being Golden. (If they do in fact have more than one skin tone, then why is it they are segrigated to all gold ones in Origins and all grey ones in 2?)

[sg1fan75]

yes I like origins and picking my race etc. They make the story more personal in my opinion.

[RogueWriter3201]

Answering the OP: While I do believe it would be in their best interests to provide Origins/Non-Human characters for those who want them, if it means taking time from the core plot, other characters, settings and so forth then I can do without them. I have always played as Human characters (I can't relate to Elves or Dwarves), so the only origins which interested me in DAO were the Noble and Mage stories. Even then, because I always lean toward Human Mages in Fantasy settings, I stuck with the Mage Origin.

In DA2, despite having to loose Bethany (for me, the only bewildering narrative/mechanic design choice in the game) I went with a Mage Hawke. If they include origins and have the choice of choosing non-human races, and having the game react more to your various origins (more so then DAO did) then I do believe you'll have a lot of Dragon Age fans with less to gripe about. However, if they go the route of DA2 and have a set protagonist I will be content (as long as said character is Human with a Male/Female option of course) This, of course, is just my view. I don't feel it should dictate the entire direction of the game. In the end, I trust in Mark, Mike, David and all the rest of those crazy kids to deliver what they think is best, and I know I'll find something to love about it.

[Tinxa]

Since I'm pretty sure they won't be doing a game based on origins again and it seems they're going toward voiced human only PC, I wish they would still consider having class origins. They could be shorter than in DAO and it would only require 3 origin stories.

It would be a little nod to DAO and have some replay value with the different starting sections. Everytime I try to restart DA2 and end up replaying that first section I cringe.

[Anvos]

I would like origins to return.  My following origin ideas were based around the premise of DA3's plot being having to deal with mage vs templar war and orlesian civil war.


Starting: Origins
Circle Rebel
Races: Human, Elf, Kossith
class: Mage
Background: Ever since you showed signs of magic you’ve lived you life in the circle, learning how to control your “curse” so you can protect yourself from demons and not be a danger to the other mages of the circle. It has been roughly 3 years since you passed your harrowing and life in your circle was about average for circle life.
Basic Story: You are going about your daily duties, including training a young mage you were assigned to mentor (human and same gender as pc). You’ve heard about the rebellions and start of the civil war, but so far think neither will end up affecting your circle. That night while you are in your quarters you are startled from bed and it turns out some mages in your circle started a growing rebellion. You then make your way to the circle’s main hall where you find a battle going on between the mages and templars, you find your student hiding under a table. Before you can get to your student the clash between a templar’s smite and a mage’s fireball causes an explosion that collapses a nearby pillar onto the table killing your student. As your character is taking in what just happened from across the room you hear the Knight Commander shout to his templars that in response to the rebellion he is invoking the right of annulment. Your character is then forced to fight their way out of the circle to escape death.
Post Origin Quest Chain: Hunted~ Believing you were responsible for starting the rebellion the Knight Commander starts using your phylactery to send the other remaining templars from the circle to bring you to “justice”. In the finale you find out where your phylactery is and decide you have to destroy it to stop yourself from being hunted down, leading to a confrontation with the Knight Commander outside the vault containing your phylactery.

Apostate
Races: Human, Elf, Kossith
class: Mage
Background: You come from a family of apostates who going back the past couple generations have all successfully alluded the circle passing down their magical knowledge, but otherwise have led rather normal and simple lives in rural towns. You are the elder sibling of the family with a younger sister on a small farm your family runs. Largely your life so far has been rather dull and ordinary beyond the times when your family goes off to practice your magical arts.
Basic Story: You are headed to town one morning with your family to sell your food and produce at the local market. Approaching on your horse drawn cart you see flames coming from the village. Getting off the wagon your father and you tell your mother and sister to head back home while you investigate. Using the surrounding forest as cover your father and you move towards the town. As you approach the town you find a mage fighting a templar, the templar manages to get off a few shots into the mage’s chest, but is subsequently struck down by a spell from the mage. Going over to the mage you hear him mumbling about how this wasn’t how it was supposed to be and he dies. Searching his body you find a note in his pocket that essentially explains the mages tricked the templars into believing your town was a hotbed of apostates to give a group of pro mage forces time to retreat from their position before templar reinforcements arrived at their position. The letter also stated that the mage you got the letter off of was to evacuate the town before the templars arrived. Finishing reading the letter you see your family horse rush by you and hear the sound of your sister screaming coming from the town. Rushing towards the town you run into a small group of templars who attack you. Making your way towards the center of the town you see most of the surviving guards and citizens along with your mother and sister guarded by templars, who have been starting to burn the townspeople at the stake believing that since until your mother and sister all the town appeared not to be mages that they were actually apostates who had found a way to cheat their mage tests. Further worsening the situation, getting a good look at your mother you see she now bears the brand of a tranquil on her forehead and the templars are about to tranquil your sister as well. Hearing your father cry out in anguish you see his body transform into that of a pride demon and batting you aside he rushes forth and grabbing the closest templar to your sister crushes him in his hand. Following that the veil begins to tear around the town and the surviving villagers, and you and your sister flee. In the chaos of the event the two of you get separated.
Post Origin Quest Chain: Haunted~ During your adventures you are seemingly haunted by the ghosts of the townspeople and your family. Upon eventually running into your sister you find out they weren’t their ghosts haunted you, but the demon that possessed your father was slain by the templars and the pride demon then latched onto you and has been trying to subtly possess you. With that knowledge you then proceed to confront the demon in the fade.

Chevalier
Races: Human, Dwarf
class: Warrior
Background: You were the youngest child of a minor noble family and as such from an early age you were sent away to be trained as a chevalier. Training to be a chevalier was a hard and demanding life filled with instilling the strict discipline and skill required of you. Making it through your training you spent much of your time guarding some old noble’s estate, until the civil war had your squad called to more pressing duties.
Basic Story: Your squad is out patrolling the Orlesian country side for hostiles. So far the patrol has been fairly simple only running into a pack of wolves. One of your scouts comes back reporting they spotted a small band of soldiers bearing the crest of one of the rebel nobles. Heading to intercept the group you confront and defeat them only to find out it was a trap and your squad is overwhelmed and captured. Hauled off to their camp you soon realize they intend to torture you all for any information you have and then kill you. As they’re taking the captain of your squad away to be tortured he manages to break out of his restraints and overpowers the two men that had been holding him. Your squad then attempts to make a break for it. Unfortunately, wounded you are the only one to manage to escape.
Post Origin Quest Chain: Law~ Along your journeys you come across the trail of a band of notorious marauders who have been plaguing the orlesian countryside since the blight in Ferelden. Over the course of the game you work to hunt down and bring the group to justice.

Bandit
Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Kossith
class: Rogue
Background: Your family led a normal life running a small but successful business in a small orlesian town. Your family had one big secret though your elder brother was an apostate, as believing he was the only child they could have at the time he showed magic your parents couldn’t bear to send him away to a circle. Life went along much like a normal family until one day a horde of savage beasts descended upon your village. The town guard was overwhelmed and the monsters were about to slaughter the townsfolk, but your brother stepped in and with his magical ability repelled the monsters.   His nobility however was repaid by the townsfolk coming out in arms to kill him, believing he brought the monsters down on the village and slaughtered the town guard. Fleeing into the wilderness around the town your brother was pursued by the townsfolk. When the villagers returned they claimed your brother turned into an abomination, but they managed to kill him. Following that your family was ran out of town with only the clothes on your backs. After that your parents ended up indentured servants to an orlesian noble and you were left poor and destitute on the streets. Unable to take laying down and dying in miserable poverty you turned to a life of crime forming a gang out of similar disenfranchised people who were fed up with their lot in life that you came across in the slums of orlesian cities.
Basic Story: You’ve recently returned from a successful raid and are going around the fortified camp you call a base distributing the shares of wealth, food, and goods you stole. Later that night as you are settling in to bed about to go to sleep you hear the people on watch scream out that you are under attack by the orlesian army, who believing you are allied with the rebelling nobles sent a band of soldiers to attack your camp. Going through the camp you attempt to rally your followers, but you soon realize you are too outnumbered to prevail. Organizing the remaining members of your gang you make a desperate push to breach the orlesian lines and make an escape. Managing to break out and escape the orlesian pursuit the remaining members of the gang scatter.
Post Origin Quest Chain: Repercussions~ You are being hunted by an extown guard captain turned bounty hunter, who blames you for the death of his daughter during one of your raids, and has hired a band of like minded vigilantes.

Noble
Races: Human, Dwarf
class: Warrior, Rogue
Background: You are the eldest sibling of a minor noble house that holds little more than the small what you can barely call a town land your family holds. For years you have been bred in the art of ruling and fighting, so one day you may take over your father’s place in the grand orlesian game. As the wars broke out in Orlais, realizing your small estate would be ruined by taking a side in the wars your family tried to maintain neutrality. Your best of intentions however meant nothing as a small skirmish in the nearby countryside between the loyalists and rebelling nobles grew into a full scale battle with your home caught in the middle as collateral damage. When the battle ended your town and small castle were left in ruins and both sides had left without offering aid. Lacking the funds required for a quick rebuild your estate began to fall victim to roving bandits that were taking advantage of the chaos caused by the wars.
Basic Stories: You are going about your daily duties in the castle, including listening to the complaints about the poor conditions in the town by the remaining townsfolk. Just before sunset a large band of bandits attack the castle. Fighting your way through the castle you reach the throne room and finding your father dying you learn the bandits have abducted the rest of your family and much of the remaining castle staff they didn’t kill. Attempting to save your family you chase after the bandits through the ruins of the town encountering stragglers along the way. Catching up to the bandits around the town square you attempt to face off with the bandits, but their warlord manages to defeat you and wounded you fall unconscious.  Regaining consciousness you find yourself bandaged and in the back of a wagon heading away from the estate. Conversing with the peasant women in the back of the wagon with you learn the few surviving villagers and castle staff decided to declare the estate lost and seek refuge elsewhere and as they were packing what little they had left they found you and realized you were still alive. Healing up you soon leave the caravan realizing you could no long attempt to stay out of the fight.
Post Origin Quest Chain: Abducted~ Throughout the story you are attempting to track down the bandits who raided your estate and made off with your family and people. The quest ultimately comes down to a rematch with the warlord to rescue your younger sister.

Modifié par Anvos, 07 août 2012 - 10:57 .

[MysticalMage]

^ Those are really awesome ideas!

[Rawgrim]

Maybe origins based on class, rather than race.

[Kel212]

If they are determined to go the route of the voiced protagonist, then we won't get different races. However, that doesn't mean there can't be origins.

Imagine in DA2 if at the start of the game, when you chose whether to work for the smugglers or mercenaries, you then played a 40 min section depending on your choice, which would affect how others saw you throughout the game.

Or in Mass Effect terms, imagine if Sole Survivor, War Hero etc were playable origins? You still have the same voiced protagonist, but you get a different beginning (adding to re-playability) and see how your origin impacts you throughout the game in a more meaningful way.

[Lemina Ausa]

Kel212 wrote...

If they are determined to go the route of the voiced protagonist, then we won't get different races.

The old republic (Yes, its an MMO, but the story is effectively single player) had different races with a voiced protagonist. However, every class had only 1 VA that was shared across all races. So bioware could still do multiple races with a voiced protagonist if they really wanted.

Modifié par Lemina Ausa, 10 août 2012 - 02:13 .

[CELL55]

I want there to be a good story, first and foremost. I was not pleased with DA2, so they really need to make a good story for DA3 in order to draw me back in. If that good story requires the use of origins to make it good? Great. If that good story requires a fixed character to make it good? Also great. I find benefits and drawbacks to both styles, and my opinion doesn't strongly lean one way or another.

[PPR223]

Well since Dragon Age 3's plot seems to be mainly about Mages and Templars, then it would be decent to have several origins, though they need not be too long. I was thinking Templar Origin, Mage Origin and Normal guy Origin. In the origin you could choose which side you take, well I guess there are going to be sides in DA3 anwyay.

[nightscrawl]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
So, in Dragon Age 3, do you want there to be origins? Do you want to be able to pick your race/orientation?

I think establishing "orientation" is just fine the way it is, through interacting with various people as you play. Ticking a box during CC is just dumb. My very first play of DAO I didn't romance anyone, had no idea you could  romance anyone, and had no intention  to romance anyone. It made no difference to me whatsoever, nor would have picking "straight" made a difference in the way I played that first round. Since then, every play of DAO and DA2 after that, probably upwards of a combined 20 plays, has been with a romance of some form or other, with either gender as either gender. IMO, it's fine the way it is. (Though I will add that I prefer the clear indication of romance icons.)

As far as races go, I would really like the option to play the three (or four) major races, not only for myself, but also for all of the other players who want that as well. However, considering the main focus of DA3 is likely to be the mage/templar thing, I think it's unlikely.

That said, I would like to see class origins. I think it would be nice to give the non-mage classes a little time in the spotlight, especially if we are in for an entire other game of "mage this, mage that, the templars are mean and hateful and I hate them, dirty bad blood mages, you suck, die in a fire; Chantry, Circle, Andraste, and blood magic, oh my! etc."

Modifié par nightscrawl, 11 août 2012 - 09:42 .

[Kel212]

Lemina Ausa wrote...

Kel212 wrote...

If they are determined to go the route of the voiced protagonist, then we won't get different races.

The old republic (Yes, its an MMO, but the story is effectively single player) had different races with a voiced protagonist. However, every class had only 1 VA that was shared across all races. So bioware could still do multiple races with a voiced protagonist if they really wanted.

The Old Republic has the advantage of not needing to conform to disc space. 

Also, paying VAs is quite expensive. TOR had a larger budget and a pay-2-play subscription to justify it. Maybe if DA2 had been a resounding success, EA would allocate it a larger budget, but as it is, I don't think multiple races is realistic.