250 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathIsHere]

Feneckus wrote...

 
 

A MQI can 3 shot an Atlas, but it takes him 10 seconds to do so. It might be faster if you cloak then use tactical scan but I couldn't pull it off for some reason. But anyway, it would still take longer than a GI.

A whole two seconds.

[Kronner]

Feneckus wrote...

 
 

A MQI can 3 shot an Atlas, but it takes him 10 seconds to do so. It might be faster if you cloak then use tactical scan but I couldn't pull it off for some reason. But anyway, it would still take longer than a GI.

What is your fascination with Atlas?

Beacuse it is:
The biggest target in the game?
Harmless?
Both?

Who can kill 2 Centurions/Guardians/Troopers/Engineers quicker, HSoldier or GI? Of course the answer is HSoldier. NERF. OP. BROKEN.

Who can kill 2 phantoms quicker, AVanguard or GI? 
Of course the answer is AVanguard. NERF. OP. BROKEN. 

A class that can render the most dangerous enemy in the game (and any non-armored targets too) harmless is fine, but a class that can kill Atlas 2-5s quicker is broken. A class that can spam auto-aim powers (biotics or tech) is also fine, I guess.

What are you trying to prove anyway? That a well played GI is arguably the best class in the game? Duh.
Newsflash: well played anything will dominate Gold.

That you can kill big, harmless targets real quick when you use the top gear and equipment? Duh.

Does not mean GI is broken. If it was broken, everyone would play it. That is just not the case. You know why? Because for the average player, GI requires too much situational awareness and good aim. Obviously a good player can reap the benefits. Grenade spam, on the other hand, requires nothing but pressing a button to destroy anything in the given area.

You just keep coming with these silly threads, for some reason. Anyone can cherry pick an enemy, use the best gear, compare time (post the difference in % for greater effect ) and claim that a certain class is OP. Just drop it and enjoy the game. Seriously.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:24 .

[vickers500]

People like you, people who complain and whine about anything that is EFFICIENT at killing in this game, have ruined Mass Effect 3s multiplayer mode.  If anything is even SORT OF good or kind of fast at killing enemies, you babies scream "NERF" because you don't like using the class or weapon that is good, and would rather bring down a good weapon or class down to your crappy weapon/class  selection, rather than asking for a buff to your crappy weapon/class, ruining other peoples fun and enjoyment of the game instead of trying to increase your own.  But hey, as long as you're "having fun" spending 5 minutes behind cover constantly unloading ammunition of a crappy weapon into a geth prime or an atlas, then that's all that matters right?  

And making things suck does not make the game "balanced", it just makes them suck.

Modifié par vickers500, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[capn233]

This thread's still going on huh?

[Feneckus]

 

DeathIsHere wrote...

A whole two seconds.

Not really. Almost twice as long. I'm sure a GI can kill an Atlas in 5 seconds with the right build. After 5 seconds an Atlas has only two bars of armor, with the extra 10% damage at rank 6 of Hunter Mode and the extra damage of proxy mines at rank 4 and 6 I'm sure it's possible. 

Kronner wrote...

What is your fascination with Atlas?

They have a huge amount of HP and they sit still so it's easy to compare DPS. It would be harder to compare using a Banshee because she can teleport so you might miss some shots or have to roll away from her. Same thing with Primes, you'll probably have to deal with one of his turrets at some point. Too many variables.

Who can kill 2 Centurions/Guardians/Troopers/Engineers quicker, HSoldier or GI?

GI with heavy melee/Krysae.

Who can kill 2 phantoms quicker, AVanguard or GI?

GI with heavy melee/Krysae.

Modifié par Feneckus, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

That same Novaguard with the right weapon can be effective enough.

Did you even read my post or did you just read what you wanted to read ?

Your post was full of stupidity, as the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types without taking player skill and weapon/power synergy into account.

The QFE for example does not have an anti shield ability, but that doesn't stop me from carrying teams of horrible players with the character vs Cerberus and Geth. I compensate for that weakness by using a weapon that synergizes well with her skillset, and speccing the character to be effective against everything.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .

[Feneckus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types 

That's not what I said.

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types 

That's not what I said.

Feneckus wrote...


No. A good player can make every class work, but he can't do magical things. A Female Quarian Engineer will always strugge against shields/barriers, unless you use the Reegar.

Really?

I also like how you edited out the rest of my post. I mean, at least quote the whole sentence.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:00 .

[GroverA125]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

That same Novaguard with the right weapon can be effective enough.

Did you even read my post or did you just read what you wanted to read ?

Your post was full of stupidity, as the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types without taking player skill and weapon/power synergy into account.

The QFE for example does not have an anti shield ability, but that doesn't stop me from carrying teams of horrible players with the character vs Cerberus and Geth. Icompensate for that weakness by using a weapon that synergizes well with her skillset, and speccing the character to be effective against everything.

Synergy does not solve every issue with a class. A soldier has no widespread set-up ability, but giving him a Falcon doesn't fully cure that problem, and instead it costs you your primary weapon, lowering damage significantly and debatably just trying to make something a weak explosion starter, something someone else can do, while still being capable of carrying a decent-powered weapon Like a (high level) Talon, Paladin, Carnifex or (if they can handle the terrible aim and unreliable charge tme) the Arc Pistol. You can't say that using <insert weapon here> immediately makes all the problems of a class go away, because they won't. They may remove some, but you always leave something open. Giving your QFE a weapon that synergizes well doesn't change the fact you can't drain shields effectively, and that means that while you're compensating, others are overclocking their skillsets to perform better, so you still wouldn't be on the same level as them anyway.

Two other points:
1) Don't take other players skill into account. Saying that you can carry a bunch of unskilled players with <insert class here> isn't a viable point. I can carry with a Human Engineer, but that doesn't make it an awesome class or me an awesome player. It just means I can follow the seven Ps.
2) Don't I recall you recently saying that infiltrators without a Krysae or a Claymore being useless and "having no love"? Care to explain your logic?

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Who can kill 2 Centurions/Guardians/Troopers/Engineers quicker, HSoldier or GI?

GI with heavy melee/Krysae.

Who can kill 2 phantoms quicker, AVanguard or GI?

GI with heavy melee/Krysae.

A melee GI will last for a fraction of a second if he attacks a group bigger than 3 with melee, or if he gets shot during the melee animation.

And the Krysae is a noob tube, any class in the game can decimate enemies in seconds with it.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[Kronner]

Feneckus wrote...
They have a huge amount of HP and they sit still so it's easy to compare DPS. It would be harder to compare using a Banshee because she can teleport so you might miss some shots or have to roll away from her. Same thing with Primes, you'll probably have to deal with one of his turrets at some point. Too many variables.

 

Atlas is a big, harmless target. It is silly to use Atlas as an example of how powerful a class is.

GI with heavy melee/Krysae

Uhuh. No.

Shot-Instareload-shot. 2 troopers dead. GI can't do that.

Stasis - headshot, headshot, headshot. Three phantoms dead. GI can't do that.

I just outscored a very good Krysae GI with a Vorcha Sentinel. I guess Vorcha are broken.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:20 .

[ScumbagVince]

This is an epic troll thread OP, now stop whining and let us have fun with our GIs

[A Wild Snorlax]

Plenty of classes are capable of keeping up with the GI, especially with grenade gear.Get over it allready.

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

That same Novaguard with the right weapon can be effective enough.

Did you even read my post or did you just read what you wanted to read ?

Your post was full of stupidity, as the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types without taking player skill and weapon/power synergy into account.

The QFE for example does not have an anti shield ability, but that doesn't stop me from carrying teams of horrible players with the character vs Cerberus and Geth. I compensate for that weakness by using a weapon that synergizes well with her skillset, and speccing the character to be effective against everything.

Another example: 6/0/6/6/6 Human AR Soldiers who use Assault Rifles (Cerb Harrier in my case) tend to struggle against Phantoms (especially since Rank 6 Shield Overload for Frags only applies to Shields, not Barriers). Solution? I switch out my Cerb Harrier for Revenant X to compensate. The Revenant throws so many rounds downrange in such a wide scatter-pattern that Phantoms can't simply dodge or walk out of the way. Thus my damage boost on AR doesn't go to waste, I don't need to respec anti-armor Frags out (which are still great for everything/spawn nuking/Atlas raping) for pissant Concussive Shot and it plays to my char's strengths.

Knowing what weapons to use with what builds and HOW to use them effectively given the situation is what defines a skilled player.

[Ashen One]

GroverA125 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

That same Novaguard with the right weapon can be effective enough.

Did you even read my post or did you just read what you wanted to read ?

Your post was full of stupidity, as the implication was that certain classes are ineffective against specific enemy types without taking player skill and weapon/power synergy into account.

The QFE for example does not have an anti shield ability, but that doesn't stop me from carrying teams of horrible players with the character vs Cerberus and Geth. Icompensate for that weakness by using a weapon that synergizes well with her skillset, and speccing the character to be effective against everything.

Synergy does not solve every issue with a class.

I beg to differ.

GroverA125 wrote...
A soldier has no widespread set-up ability, but giving him a Falcon doesn't fully cure that problem, and instead it costs you your primary weapon, lowering damage significantly and debatably just trying to make something a weak explosion starter, something someone else can do, while still being capable of carrying a decent-powered weapon Like a (high level) Talon, Paladin, Carnifex or (if they can handle the terrible aim and unreliable charge tme) the Arc Pistol.

So give him a Scorpion instead. You now have a lightweight sidearm that can CC like a Falcon (arguably better, especially with AR instant reload), guarantees the ammo type you selected to be applied 100% of the time, and do DPS between that of a Carnifex and Paladin. (70% more with Adrenaline rush) Soldiers don't really need to worry about weight as much as other classes because even with a 40% CD bonus the recharge speed on AR is about 3.5 seconds.

The essential function of a Tech Burst or Biotic Explosion is AoE damage/stagger. A HS doesn't need to be able to set up a BE or TB because he can inflict AoE damage without it. (frag grenades, CS). The inability to set up a power combo for AoE damage means very little to a class that can already replicate the intended function of said power combo without having to set up and trigger it.

GroverA125 wrote...
You can't say that using <insert weapon here> immediately makes all the problems of a class go away, because they won't. They may remove some, but you always leave something open.

You sure have a lot to say about the weapons not being able to compensate for class weaknesses for someone who doesn't even have them all unlocked. Every class can be built in a way to handle every map/enemy combination in the game. Every class weakness can be compensated for with the right setup. It just takes an inteligent player to do so, apparently.

GroverA125 wrote...
Giving your QFE a weapon that synergizes well doesn't change the fact you can't drain shields effectively, and that means that while you're compensating, others are overclocking their skillsets to perform better, so you still wouldn't be on the same level as them anyway.

I don't need to be able to drain shields with a QFE, because I can singlehandedly lock down entire spawns of shielded units. Since you're on Xbox, I can show you if you want. Go ahead and use an Engineer with Overload, set the enemy to Geth so you have the advantage and we'll see if I'm on the same level.

GroverA125 wrote...
Don't I recall you recently saying that infiltrators without a Krysae or a Claymore being useless and "having no love"? Care to explain your logic?

I never said that.

I said the sniper rifles are generally not worth using on an Infiltrator besides the Salarian because a Claymore will give higher single shot DPS than any single shot rifle in the game post-nerf, while also not being crippled by the shield gate like a single shot rifle is.

And as far as sniper rifles go, the Krysae will out DPS a Black Widow, but also has the added benefit of not destroying your cooldowns like a Black Widow will thanks to the duration nerf, and also has AoE unlike the Black Widow.

Don't misquote me.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 07 juillet 2012 - 10:03 .

[Feneckus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Really?

And how is that the same as saying that certain classes are useless against certain enemy factions ? That's not what I said at all. A Female Quarian Engineer is obviously better against Reapers than against Geth. Does that mean she's useless against Geth ? No. Does that mean you can't carry a bad team with her against Geth ? No. But she does have an easier time against Reapers. I also like to use her with a Scorpion X, and she can kick ass anywhere against anyone, but that doesn't mean she can reach her full potential no matter the conditions. The same player who was godly on Glacier/Reapers will "just" be damn good on Condor/Geth.

Meanwhile, the GI will be godly on every single combo of map/enemy.

Kronner wrote...

Stasis - headshot, headshot, headshot. Three phantoms dead. GI can't do that.

Wave 10/11. Four phantoms. Proxy mine + 2-3 heavy melees = 4 dead phantoms.

[Kyerea]

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Really?

And how is that the same as saying that certain classes are useless against certain enemy factions ? That's not what I said at all. A Female Quarian Engineer is obviously better against Reapers than against Geth. Does that mean she's useless against Geth ? No. Does that mean you can't carry a bad team with her against Geth ? No. But she does have an easier time against Reapers. I also like to use her with a Scorpion X, and she can kick ass anywhere against anyone, but that doesn't mean she can reach her full potential no matter the conditions. The same player who was godly on Glacier/Reapers will "just" be damn good on Condor/Geth.

Meanwhile, the GI will be godly on every single combo of map/enemy.

Kronner wrote...

Stasis - headshot, headshot, headshot. Three phantoms dead. GI can't do that.

Wave 10/11. Four phantoms. Proxy mine + 2-3 heavy melees = 4 dead phantoms.

What he was trying to say dude, was that weapon(s) loadouts can more than make up for class deficiencies. Simple.

[jordie3000]

tMc Tallgeese wrote...

(genius)

Ah lurve you, man.

[DHKany]

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Really?

And how is that the same as saying that certain classes are useless against certain enemy factions ? That's not what I said at all. A Female Quarian Engineer is obviously better against Reapers than against Geth. Does that mean she's useless against Geth ? No. Does that mean you can't carry a bad team with her against Geth ? No. But she does have an easier time against Reapers. I also like to use her with a Scorpion X, and she can kick ass anywhere against anyone, but that doesn't mean she can reach her full potential no matter the conditions. The same player who was godly on Glacier/Reapers will "just" be damn good on Condor/Geth.

Meanwhile, the GI will be godly on every single combo of map/enemy.

Kronner wrote...

Stasis - headshot, headshot, headshot. Three phantoms dead. GI can't do that.

Wave 10/11. Four phantoms. Proxy mine + 2-3 heavy melees = 4 dead phantoms.

yup and if you're not careful a dead you within half a second because your shields are gone. 

[Highlord Heian]

Well. This thread is stupid.

[Sabbatine]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I laugh at this because my SI with Proxy Mines and a Scorpion can clear out a spawn.

Congratulations, you have managed to find the most inefficient infiltrator build possible. Too bad soldiers and adepts can do the same thing without utilizing an N7 weapon and reducing their effectiveness at every other aspect of the game.

Right, I should have also mentioned that it's a sidearm to my Black Widow.

You're right, that's kind of a big thing you forgot to mention.  I wouldn't have replied otherwise.

As for your comment on weapon rarity, it is irrelevant in terms of effectiveness, it is extremely relevant if you are basing judgment on the power level of an entire class around it because it's not a weapon the average player will have access to.

Feneckus wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Soldiers actually do more damage against rank and file troops than an infiltrator. Your idiotic comparison however was comparing an infiltrator's damage on the exact target type infiltrators have been designed to eliminate. Do infiltrators need to be buffed because a soldier will cut through eight troopers in the same amount of time an infiltrator can only kill three?

That might be true if you're talking about a SI with a Widow or something. But


1. An Infiltrator can use a scorpion/falcon/krysae and he'll be at least as effective at clearing mobs as soldiers. While still having another weapon to deal with bosses because weight is irrelevant for them.

False.  The only way this is even remotely true is if we assume the soldier you are talking about is brain dead.  In addition to that, a soldiers ability to do this isn't reliant on him carrying one of three aoe weapons.

Feneckus wrote...

2. A GI can kill an Atlas in three shots and still can kill troopers in a small radius with a proxy mine and heavy melee. Or nemesis/centurions/engineers/marauders/rocket troopers/hunters with a proxy mine + two heavy melees. With just three points in fitness. 

Your bronze strategy is fascinating, but we aren't talking about bronze here.

Considering that on gold difficulty an Atlas is probably the least threatening enemy you'll go up against during a cerberus game I don't understand why you put so much value in how many shots it takes someone to kill it.  The reason Atlas mechs tend to be saved for last isn't because they have a lot of hp, it's because they aren't a threat unless they have other troops supporting them.  It's adorable that you think a proximity mine and heavy melee will get you kills on gold but this simply isn't the case the vast majority of the time.

Feneckus wrote...

Or you could have a 6/0/6/6/6 melee/weapon damage build with a Claymore/another weapon that grants extra melee damage and then you can kill bosses in seconds and melt groups of troopers/phantoms instantly. 

Or you could pray and fast and God might help you kill things faster.  Or a magic hurricane can blow through and imbue your computer with the power of magic and you'll automatically win every game you play.  Or Chris Priestly himself could show up at your front door and give you a diamond encrusted thumb drive with the magic platinum missile launcher dlc on it that lets you instant kill all waves at once in any game you join.

Actually I think all of those things I mentioned are far more likely to happen that you doing well on gold difficulty with a melee build as a geth infiltrator.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:04 .

[WARMACHINE9]

JackumsD wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

And no, the fact that he's squishy does not make up for all that.

Yes, it does.

This

+1

[Ashen One]

Sabbatine wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I laugh at this because my SI with Proxy Mines and a Scorpion can clear out a spawn.

Congratulations, you have managed to find the most inefficient infiltrator build possible. Too bad soldiers and adepts can do the same thing without utilizing an N7 weapon and reducing their effectiveness at every other aspect of the game.

Right, I should have also mentioned that it's a sidearm to my Black Widow.

You're right, that's kind of a big thing you forgot to mention.  I wouldn't have replied otherwise.

As for your comment on weapon rarity, it is irrelevant in terms of effectiveness, it is extremely relevant if you are basing judgment on the power level of an entire class around it because it's not a weapon the average player will have access to.

I don't care about the "average player". My point wasn't that the SI is OP, my point was that Infiltrators can inflict AoE damage and CC with the right weapon just like every other class in the game. Like the Soldier class, your weapon choice practically determines how the class will play because Infiltrators rely primarily on their weapons for damage.

And for the record, the "average player" probably has access to the Krysae, which essentially does the same thing.

[Sabbatine]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I laugh at this because my SI with Proxy Mines and a Scorpion can clear out a spawn.

Congratulations, you have managed to find the most inefficient infiltrator build possible. Too bad soldiers and adepts can do the same thing without utilizing an N7 weapon and reducing their effectiveness at every other aspect of the game.

Right, I should have also mentioned that it's a sidearm to my Black Widow.

You're right, that's kind of a big thing you forgot to mention.  I wouldn't have replied otherwise.

As for your comment on weapon rarity, it is irrelevant in terms of effectiveness, it is extremely relevant if you are basing judgment on the power level of an entire class around it because it's not a weapon the average player will have access to.

I don't care about the "average player". My point wasn't that the SI is OP, my point was that Infiltrators can inflict AoE damage and CC with the right weapon just like every other class in the game. Like the Soldier class, your weapon choice practically determines how the class will play because Infiltrators rely primarily on their weapons for damage.

And for the record, the "average player" probably has access to the Krysae, which essentially does the same thing.

To be blunt, your point was stupid.  Most infiltrators can't do what you claimed in your post.

Adepts can use sniper rifles.  Engineers can build for melee damage.  Lots of classes can do lots of things but that doesn't mean they should.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[Mike 9987]

NERF GI!!!! I'm using AP ammo, shotgun rail amp, and shotgun amp, and i am killing things in 5 seconds. NERF NOW!