250 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Kronner wrote...

Nope, I visited way too many stupid threads (including this one it's about 157) this week already 

Ah well.

It is way overpowered because it only takes one-shot to kill most enemies, and my favorite gun the Assault Tuna takes something like 30 or more.

Modifié par capn233, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:21 .

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

GRAAL ASARI VANGUARD CAN STASIS AND KILL THREE (3) PHANTOMS IN UNDER 3 SECONDS. I SHALL MAKE A THREAD ON BSN CRYING FOR NERF.
Then I am gonna find some more good classes/weapon combinations and make MOAR threads.
Nerf, OP, Broken - the holy trinity I worship.

Don't be so childish, you don't make any sense.

Is the Asari Vanguard as versatile as the GI ? Not even close.

The Asari Vanguard can survive sustained fire from a single Assault Trooper for longer than 1.78 seconds unlike the GI.

She can also OSK a room full of troopers with one grenade, and can carry 8 of them with grenade gear.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:23 .

[spudspot]

Feneckus wrote...

Don't be so childish, you don't make any sense.

Is the Asari Vanguard as versatile as the GI ? Not even close.

Huh, is the GI as agile as any Vanguard? Not even close. As far as the versatility goes, GI < SI, but that is just my opinion. 

[Kalas Magnus]

spudspot wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

I'm having deja vu of the Stardusk "The Reegar Carbine is an abomination." thread atm.

He was right about the reager. About the infiltrators. Too bad he left.

Well he was also a bit hysteric, which is understandable if you're getting death threats. But I miss him as well, at least the videos are still incoming. 

fer realz?

That is a little extreme.

[njohnson7]

tMc Tallgeese wrote...

What do the other characters you mentioned have that the Geth Infiltrator doesn't?  Health.

GIs are glass cannons that can only take the most miniscule damage before being taken down, unlike those classes you mentioned.  Bear in mind that it trades survivability for destructive power.  It makes a difference that his health and shields are lowered as much as they are.  Does it make a difference for a player who knows how to use consumables/gear to counteract this?  No, because they've learned how to limit their exposure while doing the most damage possible.

Here's something I created as a tribute to those brave glass cannons...

Ryncol Light Presents

Real Beings of Genius

[REAL BEINGS OF GENIUS]

Today we salute you, Mr. Glass Cannon Geth Infiltrator.

[MISTER GLASS CANNON GETH INFILTRAAATOR!]

You're a machine on a mission, smashing your enemies with overwhelming force.

[OOOOH TAKE THAT SUCKA!]

Too bad you crumble like a pilot with brittle bone disease, but at least you can turn your victims into a steaming pile of goo.

[EWWW DON'T GET ANY ON YOUUUU!]

So crack open a keg of Ryncol Light you Tinkerbell of Destruction, because where's the fun in having medi-gel, if you've got no need to use it.

You sir, are full of win.

On topic: Point made in above quote.

[Kronner]

capn233 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Nope, I visited way too many stupid threads (including this one it's about 157) this week already 

Ah well.

It is way overpowered because it only takes one-shot to kill most enemies, and my favorite gun the Assault Tuna takes something like 30 or more.

You should use Assault Shark. Much better DPS.

[ryoldschool]

capn233 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

GRAAL ASARI VANGUARD CAN STASIS AND KILL THREE (3) PHANTOMS IN UNDER 3 SECONDS. I SHALL MAKE A THREAD ON BSN CRYING FOR NERF.
Then I am gonna find some more good classes/weapon combinations and make MOAR threads.
Nerf, OP, Broken - the holy trinity I worship.

If I make a nerf the Claymore thread, will you promise to come post in it?

Nooooooo.   Also please note that the OP in the video was doing reload trick on claymore to increase the damage.  If he wants it to be less powerful don't do the reload trick, damnnnnnniiiiiiitttttttt.

[ryanb519]

tMc Tallgeese wrote...

Here's something I created as a tribute to those brave glass cannons...

Ryncol Light Presents

Real Beings of Genius

[REAL BEINGS OF GENIUS]

Today we salute you, Mr. Glass Cannon Geth Infiltrator.

[MISTER GLASS CANNON GETH INFILTRAAATOR!]

You're a machine on a mission, smashing your enemies with overwhelming force.

[OOOOH TAKE THAT SUCKA!]

Too bad you crumble like a pilot with brittle bone disease, but at least you can turn your victims into a steaming pile of goo.

[EWWW DON'T GET ANY ON YOUUUU!]

So crack open a keg of Ryncol Light you Tinkerbell of Destruction, because where's the fun in having medi-gel, if you've got no need to use it.

This may be the most hilarious thing I have ever read on here.  Love it. 

Had a roommate in college back in the day that loved those commercials.  But now I'm just showing my age.

[Pedactor]

OP, really?

The GI is fine. Any weapon you are capable of doing that crap with is giving you slow recharge timing. If TC is on CD and you aren't in cover you get shot twice and disintegrate.

[Sabbatine]

Feneckus wrote...

That was recorded today, so after the Hunter Mode and Tactical Cloak nerfs and after the Cerberus buffs.

...

For comparison, a Human Soldier with the exact same weapon/mods/equipment takes 12 seconds to kill an Atlas, almost twice as long --> 

...

A Turian Soldier with a Hurricane II will take 11 seconds --> 

Interesting statistics, but how is soldier damage output relevant to an infiltrator's?  There is no requirement that all classes have identical damage output, the only way to guarantee that would be throwing the classes out altogether.  Fact is infiltrators SHOULD do more damage than any other class against targets with high hp pools.

Is it unfair that a turian soldier or an adept can clear out large numbers of weaker enemies in a fraction of the time an infiltrator can?

Feneckus wrote...

So a Geth Infiltrator has way better DPS than those guys but he can also turn invisible for 5 seconds, see enemies through walls/smoke, debuff/stagger crowds in a 4.5m radius every 3 seconds no matter the loadout (and that does decent damage by itself) and he also has the best melee in the game.

And no, the fact that he's squishy does not make up for all that.

Your argument completely falls apart here.  Soldiers aren't infiltrators.  If you want soldiers to be just like infiltrators, play an infiltrator.

[Kenadian]

capn233 wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

I don't see a problem with the nade builds as they are. The gear is doing exactly what it should be doing, making alternate builds a good substitute. I can cleanly get away with a melee build on a Bat Soldier or a grenade build on him. I can choose between one concussion shot human soldier and one frag soldier with no problem. No nerfs are required to grenades. Doing so would be a step back.

Well it is of some comfort to me that you don't think Batarians with grenades are a problem, you have no idea.

I wasn't thinking about every single class with grenades.  I was thinking specifically about Drell Adept and Quarian Male Infiltrator (with the engineer also in the periphery).  It is clear that at the least people think Arc Grenade spam is probably imbalanced, and some think Grenade Capacity V is a half baked idea as well.

Maybe. If anything is done to the capacity, it honestly would have to have some tweaks to give other benefits in place of reduced capacity. Say, boost to damage or something.

[Feneckus]

Sabbatine wrote...

Interesting statistics, but how is soldier damage output relevant to an infiltrator's? 

Because you'd think Soldiers would have better DPS than infiltrators since they're, you know, soldiers. Infiltrators should just be able to snipe, like they're meant to. But no, they're the best class with shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles and probably SMGs and Assault Rifles as well. And that's just one part of their arsenal. That's not balanced at all.

IMO, Bioware should lower the damage bonus from tactical cloak to something like 30% and then buff the extra sniper rifle damage of rank 6 of TC to compensate. Then Infiltrators will actually have a niche instead of being Gods with every single weapon and making some classes completely redundant.

[catlord2]

Feneckus wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

Interesting statistics, but how is soldier damage output relevant to an infiltrator's? 

Because you'd think Soldiers would have better DPS than infiltrators since they're, you know, soldiers. Infiltrators should just be able to snipe, like they're meant to. But no, they're the best class with shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles and probably SMGs and Assault Rifles as well. And that's just one part of their arsenal. That's not balanced at all.

IMO, Bioware should lower the damage bonus from tactical cloak to something like 30% and then buff the extra sniper rifle damage of rank 6 of TC to compensate. Then Infiltrators will actually have a niche instead of being Gods with every single weapon and making some classes completely redundant.

-.- im starting to really dislike you but eh i like this wonderful arguement thread you got going here

[Kenadian]

Kalas321 wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

I'm having deja vu of the Stardusk "The Reegar Carbine is an abomination." thread atm.

He was right about the reager. About the infiltrators. Too bad he left.

I vaguely remember his rant about the Reegar. What did he say about it, and infiltrators?

Nevermind, looked up his video. Could never get through it due to how much I disagreed with him. Point and shoot no skill? Yea, couldn't be more wrong about the Reegar. Also he said while using AP ammo lulz.

Modifié par Kenadian, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:58 .

[holdenagincourt]

Grenade Capacity V is balanced atm because there is no longer any time to collect grenades between waves, meaning you have to expose yourself to enemy fire and get pulled out of position during enemy engagements just to restore your ability to use one of the three powers in your kit.

I don't think it's a complete coincidence that the time between waves was shortened from ~8 seconds to ~3 seconds at the same time Grenade Capacity gear was introduced. I personally am still annoyed that no accounting of that change has ever been made by the devs or balance team, or explanation given.

If any changes are made to grenade gear, the time between waves should be set back to what it was before. The grenade gear is the only thing that makes the current infinitesimally small amount of time between enemy slogfests remotely non-punitive to grenade users.

ETA: if anything needs a nerf, it's the Arc Grenades base radius before grenade gear.

Modifié par holdenagincourt, 06 juillet 2012 - 06:55 .

[Kronner]

Feneckus wrote...

Because you'd think Soldiers would have better DPS than infiltrators since they're, you know, soldiers. Infiltrators should just be able to snipe, like they're meant to. But no, they're the best class with shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles and probably SMGs and Assault Rifles as well. And that's just one part of their arsenal. That's not balanced at all.

 

Soldiers have much better sustained DPS than Infiltrators.
7s of 70% damage >>> 2.5s of 80% damage bonus

Cooldown is around 3s for both.

Infiltrators have better burst damage. I guess that is why you used the Claymore, because it is a burst damage weapon. It sucks against enemy groups compared to say Harrier or Hurricane. 

Feneckus wrote... 
IMO, Bioware should lower the damage bonus from tactical cloak to something like 30% and then buff the extra sniper rifle damage of rank 6 of TC to compensate. Then Infiltrators will actually have a niche instead of being Gods with every single weapon and making some classes completely redundant.

Yea, and who the hell are you that you try to dictate how other players should play. Shotgun Infiltrators rock since ME2.

[Ashen One]

Sabbatine wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

That was recorded today, so after the Hunter Mode and Tactical Cloak nerfs and after the Cerberus buffs.

...

For comparison, a Human Soldier with the exact same weapon/mods/equipment takes 12 seconds to kill an Atlas, almost twice as long --> 

...

A Turian Soldier with a Hurricane II will take 11 seconds --> 

Interesting statistics, but how is soldier damage output relevant to an infiltrator's?  There is no requirement that all classes have identical damage output, the only way to guarantee that would be throwing the classes out altogether.  Fact is infiltrators SHOULD do more damage than any other class against targets with high hp pools.

Is it unfair that a turian soldier or an adept can clear out large numbers of weaker enemies in a fraction of the time an infiltrator can?

I laugh at this because my SI with Proxy Mines and a Scorpion can clear out a spawn.

[capn233]

Kronner wrote...

Infiltrators have better burst damage. I guess that is why you used the Claymore, because it is a burst damage weapon. It sucks against enemy groups compared to say Harrier or Hurricane.

What if you take the integral of the Infiltrator burst damage function over one match length?

I think Claymore + AP ammo + cloak bonus is pretty interesting against groups of enemies, if you can get them to line up.

[Ashen One]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Grenade Capacity V is balanced atm because there is no longer any time to collect grenades between waves, meaning you have to expose yourself to enemy fire and get pulled out of position during enemy engagements just to restore your ability to use one of the three powers in your kit.

With Grenade Gear V and my 5 thermal clip consumables, my Krogan Soldier can throw 45 Inferno Grenades consectutively, in addition to however many he was carrying before I started using clips. My Asari Vanguard can throw 40 Lift Grenades in a row, each with enough power to OSK a room full of troopers.

Don't even get me started on Drell Adepts.

[DHKany]

Kalas321 wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

True. 

I'd like to see a Gi wipe out a spawn as fast as a well played QME...

A melee reager GI can.

but fail to stagger that one assault trooper out of your melee range and your f**ked.

[holdenagincourt]

Ashen Earth wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

Grenade Capacity V is balanced atm because there is no longer any time to collect grenades between waves, meaning you have to expose yourself to enemy fire and get pulled out of position during enemy engagements just to restore your ability to use one of the three powers in your kit.

With Grenade Gear V and my 5 thermal clip consumables, my Krogan Soldier can throw 45 Inferno Grenades consectutively, in addition to however many he was carrying before I started using clips. My Asari Vanguard can throw 40 Lift Grenades in a row, each with enough power to OSK a room full of troopers.

Don't even get me started on Drell Adepts.

There's a tradeoff though, with the time between waves zeroed out and all that. And there is no situation in which one would throw 45 grenades of any type consecutively.

I find that even if I manage my grenades well and use Pull BEs when I can, I use 4 or 5 thermal clips by the end of a Gold match.

And you know you love my Drell Adept. Don't front. 

[xtorma]

This is really simple for bioware to determine. They need only use the same criteria they used when determining it was necessary to nerf tac cloak. Look at the ratio of of infiltrator used. If you see an overwhelming amount of GI used as compared to other infiltrators then , by the same logic they used to nerf tac cloak they should nerf GI.

[Imp of the Perverse]

What's funny is I tried out a human soldier for the first time, and while leveling it up (before I had many points in health and adrenaline rush) I was dying about ten times as often as I do with my GI specced for melee.

[Kronner]

capn233 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Infiltrators have better burst damage. I guess that is why you used the Claymore, because it is a burst damage weapon. It sucks against enemy groups compared to say Harrier or Hurricane.

What if you take the integral of the Infiltrator burst damage function over one match length?

I think Claymore + AP ammo + cloak bonus is pretty interesting against groups of enemies, if you can get them to line up.

Ah cmon, Claymore is a one shot gun. With a perfect reload cancel you can fire every 2.1s.

Black Widow can kill 3 enemies in 3 seconds easily. GPS. Graal. Talon. Harrier as well. Hurricane..Wraith is better against trash mobs of enemies as well etc.
Claymore is a boss killer weapon that is average against enemy groups. That's just a fact. And you actually MUST reload cancel the gun to make it competetive with the likes of GPS. If you miss a Claymore shot you do no damage for total of 4.2s. I baffled by your hate for the Claymore tbh.

If you get enemies to line up, you can kill 5-6 enemies in one Harrier clip, for example.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[Ashen One]

holdenagincourt wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

Grenade Capacity V is balanced atm because there is no longer any time to collect grenades between waves, meaning you have to expose yourself to enemy fire and get pulled out of position during enemy engagements just to restore your ability to use one of the three powers in your kit.

With Grenade Gear V and my 5 thermal clip consumables, my Krogan Soldier can throw 45 Inferno Grenades consectutively, in addition to however many he was carrying before I started using clips. My Asari Vanguard can throw 40 Lift Grenades in a row, each with enough power to OSK a room full of troopers.

Don't even get me started on Drell Adepts.

There's a tradeoff though, with the time between waves zeroed out and all that. And there is no situation in which one would throw 45 grenades of any type consecutively.

My Krogan Soldier can carry 9 grenades. I can throw them all, then use a thermal clip consumable. I now have 9 more grenades.

I can repeat the process until I've incinerated everything on the map, and the butthurt AA I was playing with gets mad and posts a "nerf the Krogan Soldier it's OP" thread on BSN.