271 réponses à ce sujet

[Creepter]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Creepter wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Creepter wrote...

The Galactic Empire was a trilogy worthy threat.
And they got their asses handed to them by teddy bears.


Why do trilogy villains have to be all but immortal suddenly for them to be relevant? >.>

for exactly the same reason this game isn't star wars.

Look how that franchise has turned out.

So simply because the franchise is Mass Effect, the villains have to be unstoppable immortals?
BS.

Not every franchise has to be similar! Just because Star Wars did something in one way, doesn't mean that Mass Effect should do the same. The Reapers were unstoppable immortals from the beginning! You're not making any sense, AT ALL.

I'm the one not making any sense, apologist?


If you can't understand the simple point I'm making then the fault is yours, not mine.

Modifié par Creepter, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Fireblader70 wrote...

@Binary_Helix 1

For such an interesting series to end with an obvious, done-before conclusion would have disappointed me more than what we have now.

What about the Keepers? What about the secrets of the past? What about shocking revelations? The stuff we have now isn't a masterpiece, hell no, but it's certainly more interesting than 'BAM reaper dead'. To me, anyway.

If you wanted some "deep" or otherwise pretentious ending that should have been an option. One of many. The most common complaint about a conventional ending is that everyone would pick it over something else. Well yeah. That's the market working where as "artists" are struggling to pay rent in their crappy apartments because they can't produce anything people want.

As for major revealations I think the Reapers should have remained mysterious or maybe their motives and origins explored in another game. Sometimes the questions are better than the answers. The G-Man from Half Life has had little revealed about him which only adds to his allure.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:18 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Creepter wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Creepter wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Creepter wrote...

The Galactic Empire was a trilogy worthy threat.
And they got their asses handed to them by teddy bears.


Why do trilogy villains have to be all but immortal suddenly for them to be relevant? >.>

for exactly the same reason this game isn't star wars.

Look how that franchise has turned out.

So simply because the franchise is Mass Effect, the villains have to be unstoppable immortals?
BS.

Not every franchise has to be similar! Just because Star Wars did something in one way, doesn't mean that Mass Effect should do the same. The Reapers were unstoppable immortals from the beginning! You're not making any sense, AT ALL.

I'm the one not making any sense, apologist?


If you can't understand the simple point I'm making then the fault is yours, not mine.

I'm not the only one who's completely baffled by your post, so no, the fault is clearly yours. You were not making any sense.

[Binary_Helix 1]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Defeating the Reapers conventionally defeats the narrative purpose of building the Crucible in the first place.

They sacrificed so much just to dock it at the Citadel. Can you imagine how pissed everybody would be if Shepard was like "lol guys forget the Crucible let's just take our chances."

There is a freaking reason why they originally didn't have the refusal ending pre-EC. They didn't think people were that stupid. I guess the forums proved them wrong.

You're right the Crucible was a stupid plot device when the outcomes should have been shaped by player actions.

Even fi that "doesn't make sense" it does make for a better gaming trilogy. That's what ME is; a video game.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:17 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...


I think the Reapers should have remained mysterious 

Exactly, when all you had to by was sovereign they actually seemed extremely dangerous.

All ME3 did was lessen the threat. I mean come on....earth survives for months while shepard takes a couples cruise.

[Tealjaker94]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Creepter wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Creepter wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Creepter wrote...

The Galactic Empire was a trilogy worthy threat.
And they got their asses handed to them by teddy bears.


Why do trilogy villains have to be all but immortal suddenly for them to be relevant? >.>

for exactly the same reason this game isn't star wars.

Look how that franchise has turned out.

So simply because the franchise is Mass Effect, the villains have to be unstoppable immortals?
BS.

Not every franchise has to be similar! Just because Star Wars did something in one way, doesn't mean that Mass Effect should do the same. The Reapers were unstoppable immortals from the beginning! You're not making any sense, AT ALL.

I'm the one not making any sense, apologist?


If you can't understand the simple point I'm making then the fault is yours, not mine.

I'm not the only one who's completely baffled by your post, so no, the fault is clearly yours. You were not making any sense.

You're right. I also fail to see what his argument is. Bioware decided to make the Reapers impossible to defeat conventionally. That's their choice. What's the problem?

[Creepter]

Something tells me that I could spend hours explaining my point even more in the most simplistic way possible.... and you would still claim that I'm not making any sense.

So are you worth the time wasted, apologist?

[naes1984]

Everyone is complaining that the problem was solved with a Deus ex Machina which is a fair criticism but I maintain once the Reapers are attacking the Earth and other planets the ONLY way to solve the problem is with a deus ex machina unless you want to blatantly revise what has been established in the previous 2 games. It took the combined fleets of the Galaxy to take down Sovereign and it was a miracle that Shepherd brought down its shields. He killed a fetal Reaper but that thing was obviously not ready. Maybe the real problem is that the writers (and fans) wanted these massive set pieces of the Reapers attacking Earth, Thessia and so on that they didn't realize that they were writing themselves into a corner. I think it would have made more sense for Shepherd to have to convince the galactic civilizations to attack the Reapers in dark space when they are mostly hibernating and vulnerable. This approach does create some plot holes that would have to be addressed but it wouldn't solve everything with space magic. My reasoning is that if the Reapers invade it is too late.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...


I think the Reapers should have remained mysterious 

Exactly, when all you had to by was sovereign they actually seemed extremely dangerous.

All ME3 did was lessen the threat. I mean come on....earth survives for months while shepard takes a couples cruise.

That is true, but you have to remember that it took them a few centuries to kill of the Protheans too. 

[Fireblader70]

@Binary_Helix 1

All I'm saying is that, for the conclusion to the trilogy, something like Ilos would have appealed to me more than something akin to the battle above Endor's moon. To me, the series has always been about discovery.

[Casticus]

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I'm not exactly sure where that is claimed, or even implied, but okay...

I don't support conventional victory because there is precious little evidence it's possible at all... which is kinda funny, because that's EXACTLY what the creators of the series have claimed REPEATEDLY.

Strange how that works.

Those were the biggest choices of the trilogy with some of the highest stakes and biggest potential pay off.

I never got the impression that the Reapers were unbeatable until ME3 decided it should be so.

So true, before ME3, the whole plot was to defeat the Reapers conventionally.

Not true at all. The plot has always been to try to find some way to survive. Not sure where you got the impression that we could win conventionally. Maybe when the entire citadel fleet and alliance fifth fleet got their asses kicked by a single reaper until Shepard managed to completely disable it. I guess if 1 reaper can take out 2 fleets, conventional victory must be a distinct possibility. If anything, the reapers were weaker in ME3 than previously depicted.

During the whole sequence of the game, Shepard had been warning the council about the Reapers, etc. If they had prepared maybe two years ealier, the game would have gone down the path of beating them conventionally, this, concept of a super-weapon defeating the Reapers didn't show up till ME3.

But they didn't. This was a major plot point of the 2nd game and the whole reason you had to work with cerberus. Coming into the 3rd game I knew we had an ice cube's chance in hell of taking down the reapers conventionally.

Exactly, but the idea of a super-weapon didn't come in until ME3.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

The reapers wouldn't be a galactic threat if you could defeat them conventionally.

Yes they would.

Not a trilogy worthy threat.

A one game flop at best.

Like the current one we got wasn't.

[Tealjaker94]

Casticus wrote...

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

Exactly. The Reapers are superior to us in every possible way, yet people complain when we need to use a superweapon to defeat them. 

[DirtySHISN0]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Like the current one we got wasn't.

You can't say the reapers didn't have a menacing potential until we met them in ME3.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Casticus wrote...

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

Don't forget morals. 

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I'm not exactly sure where that is claimed, or even implied, but okay...

I don't support conventional victory because there is precious little evidence it's possible at all... which is kinda funny, because that's EXACTLY what the creators of the series have claimed REPEATEDLY.

Strange how that works.

Those were the biggest choices of the trilogy with some of the highest stakes and biggest potential pay off.

I never got the impression that the Reapers were unbeatable until ME3 decided it should be so.

So true, before ME3, the whole plot was to defeat the Reapers conventionally.

Not true at all. The plot has always been to try to find some way to survive. Not sure where you got the impression that we could win conventionally. Maybe when the entire citadel fleet and alliance fifth fleet got their asses kicked by a single reaper until Shepard managed to completely disable it. I guess if 1 reaper can take out 2 fleets, conventional victory must be a distinct possibility. If anything, the reapers were weaker in ME3 than previously depicted.

During the whole sequence of the game, Shepard had been warning the council about the Reapers, etc. If they had prepared maybe two years ealier, the game would have gone down the path of beating them conventionally, this, concept of a super-weapon defeating the Reapers didn't show up till ME3.

But they didn't. This was a major plot point of the 2nd game and the whole reason you had to work with cerberus. Coming into the 3rd game I knew we had an ice cube's chance in hell of taking down the reapers conventionally.

Exactly, but the idea of a super-weapon didn't come in until ME3.

By all rights it should have been introduced in ME2, but I still thought back then we would need some sort of way to turn the tables.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

@Tealjaker94
No it shouldn't, the plot of ME changed many times, it majorly changed when Drew left as Lead Writer, and Mac Walters took over.

[SNascimento]

Cerberus knew how to use reaper tech for their advantage, the rest of the galaxy, not so much.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Like the current one we got wasn't.

You can't say the reapers didn't have a menacing potential until we met them in ME3.

But it wasn't seen as 100% impossible to defeat them unless by the use of super-weapon.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Casticus wrote...

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

The reapers didn't have the element of surprise. We also had access to their own tech from the Collector base and Soveriegn's wreckage. Even Soveriegn needed a Geth armada to protect it during the battle of the Citadel.

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@Tealjaker94
No it shouldn't, the plot of ME changed many times, it majorly changed when Drew left as Lead Writer, and Mac Walters took over.

I'm saying that for it to not be a deus ex machina sort of thing, it would have to be introduced in ME2. It wasn't because they had yet to decide upon an ending resulting in the convenient revelation on Mars.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Like the current one we got wasn't.

You can't say the reapers didn't have a menacing potential until we met them in ME3.

But it wasn't seen as 100% impossible to defeat them unless by the use of super-weapon.

No, but it was very much implied during the fight for the Citadel.

[Casticus]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Casticus wrote...

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

The reapers didn't have the element of surprise. We also had access to their own tech from the Collector base and Soveriegn's wreckage. Even Soveriegn needed a Geth armada to protect it during the battle of the Citadel.

The Reapers clearly had a tactical element of surprise, as seen in the beginning of ME3. They moved so fast through the Sol system cutting off all communication with the colonies and began the attack on Earth practically unimpeded and before defenses were even fully prepared.

Modifié par Casticus, 06 juillet 2012 - 09:35 .

[Tealjaker94]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Casticus wrote...

While the Reapers may have superior numbers, technology, speed, intelligence, limitless resources, indoctrination, harvesting, and the element of surprise, the galaxy has the power of friendship and love. It might be a close battle, but I think that friendship and love trump all.

The reapers didn't have the element of surprise. We also had access to their own tech from the Collector base and Soveriegn's wreckage. Even Soveriegn needed a Geth armada to protect it during the battle of the Citadel.

So the Council and all smaller governments not preparing for the Reapers doesn't give them the element of surprise? The defense council on Earth didn't seem overly ready.