271 réponses à ce sujet

[Tealjaker94]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I get Anderson, but Udina my friend? Good one. Still, Anderson is only one man on a four person council. He represents the Systems Alliance who don't believe in the Reapers either. There's only so much he can do, especially after you get killed.

Udina is not a friend yeah but an ally or at least he was.

Both Anderson and Udina recognize that it's up to them and Shepard to prepare the galaxy in the renegade ending.

Yes and the rest of the Council shoots them down. That's politics for you. At least I got to shoot Udina.

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@Tealjaker94
No it shouldn't, the plot of ME changed many times, it majorly changed when Drew left as Lead Writer, and Mac Walters took over.

I'm saying that for it to not be a deus ex machina sort of thing, it would have to be introduced in ME2. It wasn't because they had yet to decide upon an ending resulting in the convenient revelation on Mars.

The Reapers weren't suppose to be defeated by a super-weapon, meaning they could have been defeated in a way conventionally, this is a fact, as said by Drew Karpyshin, if im spelling that right.

Source?

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

It clearly shows you would had been able to defeat the Reapers without the crucible, and IMO the plot was way better

The original choice was between killing the Reapers and trying to find a way to stop the Dark Energy threat with what little time was left before it consumed the galaxy, or, "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

That doesn't say anything about how we kill the Reapers. From what I've seen in-game, I never got the feeling that even a united galaxy could stand against the Reapers for long. Sovereign kicked our asses. The collector ship, which is just a retro-fit rachni ship, kicked our asses unless we made the Normandy the most advanced ship in citadel space. I never saw how we could win in pitched battle.

You just refuse to understand, the Crucible was written by Mac Walters, their was no indication of a superweapon, the Reapers were suppose to be beaten conventionally, not by a superweapon as confirmed by Drew, if you need more proof, look it up.
And you needed to take it down was Thanix cannons.

Mac Walters was also a lead writer when they were considering the dark energy plot. They scrapped it because apparently this artsy ending was better. I still don't see how we could beat the Reapers when they have the advantage in every category. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no idea where this obsession with a conventional victory comes from. It should be obvious after the end of ME1 that it is impossible. Really. Very, very obvious. I never expected otherwise, not for a minute.

A machine that destroys, controls, or sends an energy that changes everyones dna didn't see very possible neither.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@Tealjaker94
No it shouldn't, the plot of ME changed many times, it majorly changed when Drew left as Lead Writer, and Mac Walters took over.

I'm saying that for it to not be a deus ex machina sort of thing, it would have to be introduced in ME2. It wasn't because they had yet to decide upon an ending resulting in the convenient revelation on Mars.

The Reapers weren't suppose to be defeated by a super-weapon, meaning they could have been defeated in a way conventionally, this is a fact, as said by Drew Karpyshin, if im spelling that right.

Source?

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

It clearly shows you would had been able to defeat the Reapers without the crucible, and IMO the plot was way better

The original choice was between killing the Reapers and trying to find a way to stop the Dark Energy threat with what little time was left before it consumed the galaxy, or, "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

That doesn't say anything about how we kill the Reapers. From what I've seen in-game, I never got the feeling that even a united galaxy could stand against the Reapers for long. Sovereign kicked our asses. The collector ship, which is just a retro-fit rachni ship, kicked our asses unless we made the Normandy the most advanced ship in citadel space. I never saw how we could win in pitched battle.

You just refuse to understand, the Crucible was written by Mac Walters, their was no indication of a superweapon, the Reapers were suppose to be beaten conventionally, not by a superweapon as confirmed by Drew, if you need more proof, look it up.
And you needed to take it down was Thanix cannons.

Mac Walters was also a lead writer when they were considering the dark energy plot. They scrapped it because apparently this artsy ending was better. I still don't see how we could beat the Reapers when they have the advantage in every category. 

They write the plot, they decide how powerful they want to make the Reaper seen, and but Mac Walters decided to go deux ex on us.

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@Tealjaker94
No it shouldn't, the plot of ME changed many times, it majorly changed when Drew left as Lead Writer, and Mac Walters took over.

I'm saying that for it to not be a deus ex machina sort of thing, it would have to be introduced in ME2. It wasn't because they had yet to decide upon an ending resulting in the convenient revelation on Mars.

The Reapers weren't suppose to be defeated by a super-weapon, meaning they could have been defeated in a way conventionally, this is a fact, as said by Drew Karpyshin, if im spelling that right.

Source?

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/17086/mass-effect-writer-drew-karpyshyn-reveals-original-mass-effect-3-endings

It clearly shows you would had been able to defeat the Reapers without the crucible, and IMO the plot was way better

The original choice was between killing the Reapers and trying to find a way to stop the Dark Energy threat with what little time was left before it consumed the galaxy, or, "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

That doesn't say anything about how we kill the Reapers. From what I've seen in-game, I never got the feeling that even a united galaxy could stand against the Reapers for long. Sovereign kicked our asses. The collector ship, which is just a retro-fit rachni ship, kicked our asses unless we made the Normandy the most advanced ship in citadel space. I never saw how we could win in pitched battle.

You just refuse to understand, the Crucible was written by Mac Walters, their was no indication of a superweapon, the Reapers were suppose to be beaten conventionally, not by a superweapon as confirmed by Drew, if you need more proof, look it up.
And you needed to take it down was Thanix cannons.

Mac Walters was also a lead writer when they were considering the dark energy plot. They scrapped it because apparently this artsy ending was better. I still don't see how we could beat the Reapers when they have the advantage in every category. 

They write the plot, they decide how powerful they want to make the Reaper seen, and but Mac Walters decided to go deux ex on us.

Which turned out horribly, but I still think, based on what ME1 and ME2 established, we never had a chance to win conventionally. 

[No_MSG]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no idea where this obsession with a conventional victory comes from. It should be obvious after the end of ME1 that it is impossible. Really. Very, very obvious. I never expected otherwise, not for a minute.

Sovereign also had a massive geth fleet with him.  It was never Sovereign vs. everyone.  It was mostly everyone vs. geth while Sovereign bum rushes the citadel.  

[naes1984]

No_MSG wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no idea where this obsession with a conventional victory comes from. It should be obvious after the end of ME1 that it is impossible. Really. Very, very obvious. I never expected otherwise, not for a minute.

Sovereign also had a massive geth fleet with him.  It was never Sovereign vs. everyone.  It was mostly everyone vs. geth while Sovereign bum rushes the citadel.  

There are probably 10,000s of Reapers of varying sizes. You can only upgrade your fleets so much in 3 years. Even if a caveman managed to bring down a single stealth bomber through luck, it might not matter when 1000s of stealth bombers attack his cave.

Modifié par naes1984, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:08 .

[Rip504]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

What about the Rachni? They were made out to be a limitless army. How about the Collector Base? That's Reaper tech.

Those two choices alone were suppose to change the balance of power.

Ok. Now you have completely changed my thought process.(Sarcasm) The Rachni had les then 2 years to rebuild. Hence a limit has been placed. I blew the base up and I hold none of that Tech either way. It is controlled by TIM,who is against me.

We do not have the simple numbers. We do not have enough dreadnoughts. We do not have enough Thanix Cannons. We do not have enough lives. We do not have the resources. We have NO way of countering Indoctrinated Reaper agents sabotaging multiple operations. We do not have the safety,time,or resources to build a ship yard. Where?

I can name multiple reasons against Conventional victory. Which has since been confirmed By BW. Any argument you have for conventional victory can be shot down through In-game information.

Edit:In and during ME3 all the way into the ending of ME3,we are just at the begining of the Reaper war. They are dominating the war,but because of some space magic:wizard: we can defeat them conventionally.

Modifié par Rip504, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I get Anderson, but Udina my friend? Good one. Still, Anderson is only one man on a four person council. He represents the Systems Alliance who don't believe in the Reapers either. There's only so much he can do, especially after you get killed.

Udina is not a friend yeah but an ally or at least he was.

Both Anderson and Udina recognize that it's up to them and Shepard to prepare the galaxy in the renegade ending.

Yes and the rest of the Council shoots them down. That's politics for you. At least I got to shoot Udina.

At the end of ME1 they say it's gonna be a human council with a human chairman. Basically your buddies call the shots.

That was discarded in the sequels because it would make too much sense.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:18 .

[naes1984]

Rip504 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

What about the Rachni? They were made out to be a limitless army. How about the Collector Base? That's Reaper tech.

Those two choices alone were suppose to change the balance of power.

Ok. Now you have completely changed my thought process.(Sarcasm) The Rachni had les then 2 years to rebuild. Hence a limit has been placed. I blew the base up and I hold none of that Tech either way. It is controlled by TIM,who is against me.

We do not have the simple numbers. We do not have enough dreadnoughts. We do not have enough Thanix Cannons. We do not have enough lives. We do not have the resources. We have NO way of countering Indoctrinated Reaper agents sabotaging multiple operations. We do not have the safety,time,or resources to build a ship yard. Where?

I can name multiple reasons against Conventional victory. Which has since been confirmed By BW. Any argument you have for conventional victory can be shot down through In-game information.

Edit:In and during ME3 all the way into the ending of ME3,we are just at the begining of the reaper war. They are dominating the war,but because of some space magic:wizard: we can defeat them conventionally.

Most people are frustrated with the endings we got (including myself) so they are rewriting the 1st 2 games. But conventional victory is not possible in the in-game canon. I think it this is an example of the writers writing themselves into a corner. I keep saying: once the Reapers actually emerge from dark space it is too late to stop them BUT all of the fans wanted World War 2 in space SO the only way to reconcile these two competing demands is to write in a super weapon. But now nobody is happy.

Modifié par naes1984, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:20 .

[Legbiter]

Conventional victory was out of the question once you finished ME 2 and got that snapshot of the Reapers coming in out of Dark Space heading towards the Milky Way.

[Binary_Helix 1]

No_MSG wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no idea where this obsession with a conventional victory comes from. It should be obvious after the end of ME1 that it is impossible. Really. Very, very obvious. I never expected otherwise, not for a minute.

Sovereign also had a massive geth fleet with him.  It was never Sovereign vs. everyone.  It was mostly everyone vs. geth while Sovereign bum rushes the citadel.  

Yeah this whole Soverign was barely defeated stuff needs to be put to rest.

[Binary_Helix 1]

jollyorigins wrote...

Biggest peev for me is the existence of (or lack of) the Thanix cannon. According to the codex in ME2 it had been (or can be) mounted on every fighter to frigate class ships. I mean, if one Thanix cannon can take out an incredibly large Collector cruiser (which was Reaper tech) why not just mass-manufacture it an slap it on every fighter and frigate you can. Also remember this is reverse-engineered from Sovereign, it's sure to cause some damage.

Agreed 100%.

[naes1984]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no idea where this obsession with a conventional victory comes from. It should be obvious after the end of ME1 that it is impossible. Really. Very, very obvious. I never expected otherwise, not for a minute.

Sovereign also had a massive geth fleet with him.  It was never Sovereign vs. everyone.  It was mostly everyone vs. geth while Sovereign bum rushes the citadel.  

Yeah this whole Soverign was barely defeated stuff needs to be put to rest.

What? The only way Sovereign was defeated was that Shepherd brought its shields down by defeating Saren. Shepherd states explicitly in the motion comic to the PS3 version that they BARELY defeated Sovereign.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

@Tealjaker
I disagree, but It's a matter of opinion.

[Tealjaker94]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

@Tealjaker
I disagree, but It's a matter of opinion.

Indeed. I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Rip504 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

What about the Rachni? They were made out to be a limitless army. How about the Collector Base? That's Reaper tech.

Those two choices alone were suppose to change the balance of power.

Ok. Now you have completely changed my thought process.(Sarcasm) The Rachni had les then 2 years to rebuild. Hence a limit has been placed. I blew the base up and I hold none of that Tech either way. It is controlled by TIM,who is against me.

We do not have the simple numbers. We do not have enough dreadnoughts. We do not have enough Thanix Cannons. We do not have enough lives. We do not have the resources. We have NO way of countering Indoctrinated Reaper agents sabotaging multiple operations. We do not have the safety,time,or resources to build a ship yard. Where?

I can name multiple reasons against Conventional victory. Which has since been confirmed By BW. Any argument you have for conventional victory can be shot down through In-game information.

Edit:In and during ME3 all the way into the ending of ME3,we are just at the begining of the Reaper war. They are dominating the war,but because of some space magic:wizard: we can defeat them conventionally.

Now you have completely changed my thought process.(Sarcasm).

Nearly everything you described was isolated to ME3 where the Reapers were imo retconned into being invincible.

[Binary_Helix 1]

naes1984 wrote...

What? The only way Sovereign was defeated was that Shepherd brought its shields down by defeating Saren. Shepherd states explicitly in the motion comic to the PS3 version that they BARELY defeated Sovereign.

Yeah but he had a lot of help from allies like Saren and his strike force inside the Citadel plus the Geth armada in space.

[Shaigunjoe]

Well OP, the rachni were subjugated again rather quickly (though I don't think they were every portrayed as a 'limitless' army). Unsure of your point about the collector base.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

julio77777 wrote...

It's not possible because the lore says so. No matter how much you want it to be. Stop being stubborn about it and accept facts.

LOL

Did the lore ever mention the Star Child? Or did that get pulled out of some writer's ass?

No because, we didn't know the Catalyst existed before 3. You know, sometimes new things gets introduced.

[JG The Gamer]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

What about the Rachni? They were made out to be a limitless army. How about the Collector Base? That's Reaper tech.

Those two choices alone were suppose to change the balance of power.

1. Near limitless footsoldiers and cannon fodder can't match up against 400+ kilotons of TNT per shot. And once the Reapers pasted all their ships, they can't really fight back. A ground assualt will result in varying levels of indoctrination.

Also, the Reapers can create their own rachni breeder if they need to make more shock troops.

2. The Collector Base was a valuable piece of information, but not nearly enough of the puzzle. If there were no Reapers, it would have been very valuable against the rest of the technology in the galaxy. Whatever was discovered/recovered there were likely the building blocks to kickstart Cerberus' massive army.

[naes1984]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

naes1984 wrote...

What? The only way Sovereign was defeated was that Shepherd brought its shields down by defeating Saren. Shepherd states explicitly in the motion comic to the PS3 version that they BARELY defeated Sovereign.

Yeah but he had a lot of help from allies like Saren and his strike force inside the Citadel plus the Geth armada in space.

Yes, but there are literally thousands of Reapers- likely more powerful than the Geth allies Sovereign had whereas the # of dreadnoughts is limited by treaty. The only way they damaged Sovereign was that Shepherd brought the shields down. You can definitely upgrade the fleets with new armor and new cannons but I think that's more of a drop in the bucket.

[Legbiter]

The Reapers outnumber the combined fleets by a significant margin. They rapidly gobble up all the major worlds, denying the organics access to their manpower and manufacturing facilities. This they do in a few months. When you launch the Earth mission the military phase of the Reaper plan is largely completed and all that's left is the slow, careful harvesting of the homeworlds.

The remaining fleets have lost most of their industrial base and manpower. The Crucible was the last throw of the dice.

[naes1984]

Legbiter wrote...

The Reapers outnumber the combined fleets by a significant margin. They rapidly gobble up all the major worlds, denying the organics access to their manpower and manufacturing facilities. This they do in a few months. When you launch the Earth mission the military phase of the Reaper plan is largely completed and all that's left is the slow, careful harvesting of the homeworlds.

The remaining fleets have lost most of their industrial base and manpower. The Crucible was the last throw of the dice.

I agree. The Council races chose not to prepare (not that there was much they could do) after being miracuously saved in ME1. The Protheans were taken by surprise but they were more widespread and more advanced and the Reapers had no trouble with them.