14 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaftell]

I am trying to spark a philosophical debate on all Mass Effect themes and ideas. I am going to provide three examples in relation to the endings.

1) Synthesis: Free Will vs. Determinism?
2) Destroy: Utilitarianism?
3) Control: Ascension?
They don't have to be endgame related. Share your ideas and opinions people and let's keep it civil :happy:

Modifié par Shaftell, 07 juillet 2012 - 01:38 .

[NoUserNameHere]

"Robots are baaaaad, unless you're all part robot."

[Sweawm]

None of the philosophy throughout the series was in anyway related to the endings, which totally ruined it altogether.

Unlike ME2 which was that kind of philosophy you could just think about and it was totally grey with no right answers, ME3 is more severe, in which you would believe in one thing and believe everybody else is wrong.
All choices in the 2 installment were all philosophical in nature and you could understand what people were thinking on taking the other choices...
In the 3... all the choices have impact beyond philosophical levels and are therefore far more difficult.

[pirate_wench24]

I think you could make an argument for utilitarianism with the Destroy ending, but you could see that in other decisions in all three Mass Effect games. For example, Arrival DLC reeks of utilitarianism. I don't really see Free Will vs Determinism with synthesis though. Can you expand on that?

[Ticonderoga117]

Through working together, we can beat the odds.

There are two subsets to this.
Paragon- Equally together.
Renegade- I'm doing this my way.

[zambot]

The only way you can say Synthesis implies everything lost their "free will" is if you decided not to watch it. I don't think the writers were envisioning philosophical debates over the endings. I think they created different endings for different kinds of Shepards:

1. Destroy: Heroic
2. Control (paragon): Tragic
3. Control (renegade): Evil wins
4. Synthesis: Christ-figure
5. Refusal: Heroic/Tragic

.

[Nragedreaper]

Refusal - Darwinism

[Sousabird]

Destroy is making it so we forge our own path in the future, no longer bound by the reapers in any way.

[Shaftell]

pirate_wench24 wrote...

I think you could make an argument for utilitarianism with the Destroy ending, but you could see that in other decisions in all three Mass Effect games. For example, Arrival DLC reeks of utilitarianism. I don't really see Free Will vs Determinism with synthesis though. Can you expand on that?

That's what Synthesis kept telling me morally, I might have thought wrong, but this is what I thought. Free will by definition is " freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention" ... Shepard choosing Synthesis goes against that. People are "forced" to live this way, against their will... and what Shepard did is a form of determinism called predestination... Usually predestination involves the notion of a God... But in our situation, Shepard has been put in a position of such power. Predestination by definition is "The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation"  Shepard, by choosing this is merging synthetics and organics.

[Jayleia]

zambot wrote...

The only way you can say Synthesis implies everything lost their "free will" is if you decided not to watch it. I don't think the writers were envisioning philosophical debates over the endings. I think they created different endings for different kinds of Shepards:

1. Destroy: Heroic
2. Control (paragon): Tragic
3. Control (renegade): Evil wins
4. Synthesis: Christ-figure
5. Refusal: Heroic/Tragic

I watched Synthesis.  I see no reason that Synthesis is possible WITHOUT mind control.  Remember, we have people fighting over things that may or may not have happened to their ancestors 10 CENTURIES ago.  Reapers were DEFINITELY killing us 10 seconds ago.

[pirate_wench24]

Shaftell wrote...

pirate_wench24 wrote...

I think you could make an argument for utilitarianism with the Destroy ending, but you could see that in other decisions in all three Mass Effect games. For example, Arrival DLC reeks of utilitarianism. I don't really see Free Will vs Determinism with synthesis though. Can you expand on that?

That's what Synthesis kept telling me morally, I might have thought wrong, but this is what I thought. Free will by definition is " freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention" ... Shepard choosing Synthesis goes against that. People are "forced" to live this way, against their will... and what Shepard did is a form of determinism called predestination... Usually predestination involves the notion of a God... But in our situation, Shepard has been put in a position of such power. Predestination by definition is "The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation"  Shepard, by choosing this is merging synthetics and organics.

Ah, I see your point.  Synthesis does make so that Shepard is infringing on the free will of every being in the galaxy.  If you think about StarChild's arguments in general (for the original endings, I haven't watched EC), he argues from an assumption of predestination.  It is interesting that the StarChild would even offer any choices at all if he has such a deterministic worldview. 

Going back to Utilitarianism, do you think that Shepard follows Act Utilitarianism or Rule Utilitarianism?

[KevinT18]

Anyone else disappointed that "Leviathan" had nothing to do with Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan, but was actually the (simpler) story of the Christian sea monster?

Also this series is riddled with references and allusions to philosophy, I'm surprised this thread is on page 1

[arial]

whats with all the necro's lately?

[Knightwars4]

This thread maybe old but I still hope it lives. Anybody considered Shepherd to be a virtuous moral agent?