221 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkysPain]

dreman9999 wrote...
How is a wide scale emp device or mass scale AI system rewrite unrealalistic?

I dunno, why don't you ask a guy who actually said they were.

[dreman9999]

PinkysPain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1 Saving the coucil  results it=future head acke with same people and less allices forces.
Rewriting the geth=More geth to fight in ME3 and harder time to convice quarians to side with geth.
Destorying the collector base=blowing up the galexy at low ems.

Consequences in ME3 are hardly relevant to my point now are they?

Added, what renagade choice bites you on the ass later?

When did I say they did?

1.It part of the series so any results from you actions is counted, even in ME3.

2. My point is both types of choices are treated equally.

[dreman9999]

PinkysPain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
How is a wide scale emp device or mass scale AI system rewrite unrealalistic?

I dunno, why don't you ask a guy who actually said they were.

You mean the catalyst. That tells you destory effects all tech,like a emp, which it did. And tells you will control the reapers a make them stop with control, which is a rewrite of programing.

[PinkysPain]

dreman9999 wrote...
You mean the catalyst.

No I mean the person you confused with me which said a wide scale emp device or mass scale AI system rewrite is unrealistic ... I only said that a McGuffin which weakened the reapers to the point of conventional victory being possible would be no less realistic ...

Modifié par PinkysPain, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .

[Vortex13]

Nicely done OP! I'm with you on all points, it really is sad that such an epic finish to this series was squandered.

Bioware tells great character driven stories, but here at the end they messed up. Looking back on the Mass Effect series all I can think of is how at the end, no matter what I do, I am always going to have to agree with the Reapers on some level in order to win. Wether that be synthetics can't be trusted so I need to have a galaxy wide police force to manage them, or that only by mutating all life in the galaxy can they be pacified, or that execution of all syntheic life is the only way to end the conflict.

Those choices, and the one giving them shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.

[Vortex13]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

-snip for length-

But we want to seet it happen in front of our eyes, we want to see our war assets fighting (an epic final battle with Harbinger would also be very nice). We want to see the fleet of council forces going toe to toe with the Reaper fleet, in an incredible Star warsesque clash. We want to see the entire Geth Armada come out of FTL, flanking the Reapers and obliterating several capital ships trying their to take down the Destiny Ascenscion, and saving it. We want to see Quarian commanders suicide crashing their burning ships into the Reapers, in a last desperate attempt to finish off the enemy, Keelah Se'lai!!! We want to see Turian fighters, ruthlessly rushing into the fray, dropping nuclear ordinance on capital ships.

Not just in space, we want to see this epic battle unfold on Earth. We want to see tens of thousands of Rachni soldiers swarming a Reaper Destroyer as it helplessly struggles to survive. We want to see Jack and her biotic squad shielding an anti-air outpost from an onslaught of Ravager artillery, so that the outpost can gun down several Harvesters and watch them give out one last guttural scream as they plunge to their deaths. We want to see Grunt charge at a Brute, shouting "I AM KROGAN!!!" as he single-handedly wrestles it to the ground and curb stomps its face into the concrete. We want to see an army of husks rushing a group of powerless Alliance marines who are being overwhelmed. As the marines close their eyes, preparing for the worst, the husks are gunned down by a platoon of Geth Primes. We want to see Liara fighting off multiple Marauders and get saved by a miracle sniper shot from Garrus. We want to see Vega and Ashley/Kaiden back to back, firing off at Cannibals from 360 degrees. We want to see Elcor Tanks relentlessly firing down upon Reapers and decimating them. We want to see Wrex and Wreav taking cover from on-going fire in a trench, then curtly nodding to eachother as they go over the top and lead a battalion of Krogan shocktroopers in a bloodrage battle charge.

Sorry for the double post but this portion of your post is simply perfect, this is how the battle against the Reapers should have went. I actually get goosebumps reading it.

[Conniving_Eagle]

UniversalCypher wrote...

funny how these threads seem to mostly attract people who are mad at this game. i dont like that i have been reading this same thread for the last 3 months. your feelings about this game are not fact, and you do not represent the entirety of this community. if anything, these types of posts have ruined this community. and not that people shouldnt be objective, but the people who actually do enjoy this game, find themselves more often in the objective position than not - because enjoying this game seems to be the objective view-point here.

-UC

1. These threads also seem to do a good job of attracting the Forum police.

2. If you've been reading the same thread for the last three months, then there is clearly a problem.

3. I never said that I did.

4. This is BSN.

5. Poor choice of words. Enjoying/Liking a game is about as objective as the endings are satisfying.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Vortex13 wrote...

Nicely done OP! I'm with you on all points, it really is sad that such an epic finish to this series was squandered.

Bioware tells great character driven stories, but here at the end they messed up. Looking back on the Mass Effect series all I can think of is how at the end, no matter what I do, I am always going to have to agree with the Reapers on some level in order to win. Wether that be synthetics can't be trusted so I need to have a galaxy wide police force to manage them, or that only by mutating all life in the galaxy can they be pacified, or that execution of all syntheic life is the only way to end the conflict.

Those choices, and the one giving them shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.

Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

[CELL55]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

http://t3.gstatic.co...6PTvRIcnNqCgkw 

Yeah, I can't play any of it either.

[Memnon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...
Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

I've tried to start a new playthrough twice already, and each time I keep picturing starbrat ... and I just quit and play something else

[Vortex13]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

Same here.

My gamertag died right before Mass Effect 3 came out (I couldn't recover it) so I had to run through Mass Effect 1 and 2 less than a week before the game came out with both a Paragon and Renegade Shepard. I had bought all DLC for both games (yes even Pinicle Station) to make sure I didn't miss anything on my Mass Effect 3 playthrough.

After I beat Mass Effect 3 with my Paragon Shepard I couldn't even bring myself to start my Renegade Shep let alone start my middle ground Shepard on ME 1. Apart from multiplayer and to run through Priority Earth when the EC came out, I have had no desire to play any Mass Effect game, heck I only play ME 3 multiplayer now because it is one of the few games I have in common with my brothers, and gaming is one of the few things we can do together seeing as we live in seperate states.

[2Shepards]

Poor OP, at least you weren't here when the s*** hit the fan, we fueled eachother for months.

-hug- We're here for you!

[Conniving_Eagle]

2Shepards wrote...

Poor OP, at least you weren't here when the s*** hit the fan, we fueled eachother for months.

-hug- We're here for you!

Really? What was it like? Tell me about it.

[Conniving_Eagle]

CELL55 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

http://t3.gstatic.co...6PTvRIcnNqCgkw 

Yeah, I can't play any of it either.

Lol, I like that picture it's pretty cute. Yeah, I'm sure Harby gives his heart out to us, knowing that we never got to meet face to face in ME3. Atleast he sent Marauder Shields and the Three Huskateers to try and stop us from seeing the ending. I'm not sure why he leaves though. Did Extended Cut explain that? Did it also explain how Shepard ended up on London or how Anderson and TIM got through the beacon?

[spockjedi]

Agreed OP. That's why I made up my own ending and stopped worrying about which color should I pick. But I shouldn't be inventing a new ending if the responsibles for the endings were half as good as they claim to be.

[Baronesa]

Very well said OP

[TheMarshal]

dreman9999 wrote...

How is a wide scale emp device or mass scale AI system rewrite unrealalistic?

Added, based on a mcguffins definition...
In fiction, a MacGuffin[/b] (sometimes McGuffin[/b] or maguffin[/b]) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so desirable. A MacGuffin, therefore, functions merely as "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot of a work of fiction".[1] In fact, the specific nature of the MacGuffin may be ambiguous, undefined, generic, left open to interpretation or otherwise completely unimportant to the plot. Common examples are money, victory, glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, a mysterious but highly desired item or object, or simply something that is entirely unexplained 

...The crucible is not a mcguffin. It has a clear definetion to why it's the players motivation.

At what point is the Crucible not a MacGuffin?  It's introduced as a set of Prothean schematics for a super-weapon against the Reapers, with no explanation as to how it works or what it does.  The player is then blindly throwing resources at it, and at no point is the true nature or effectiveness of it ever uncovered.  Liara flat out asks whether they're wasting their time pursuing something that they don't even fully understand, and it's Shepard, the avatar of the player, who is forced to say "Whelp, it's our best hope".

Even after Vendetta explains what the Catalyst is, the actual effect of the Crucible remains a mystery that we doggedly pursue until the moment that we're brought into Starchild's chamber and flat-out told what it does.

It's the very definition of a MacGuffin.

[Conniving_Eagle]

spockjedi wrote...

Agreed OP. That's why I made up my own ending and stopped worrying about which color should I pick. But I shouldn't be inventing a new ending if the responsibles for the endings were half as good as they claim to be.

If I play the single player again, my ending will be getting killed by Maruder Shields. That's how I will conclude the trilogy from now on, atleast until they change the ending.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Vortex13 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Those that disagree with me on the ending will find this pathetic, but I don't think I can replay the series at this point. I tried two days ago, I put in ME1, and created a new, badass, Renagon Vanguard Shepard, but when I was watching the intro, the thought of the Catalyst kept creeping into my thoughts. I eventually just asked myself "What's the ****ing point?" and took the disc out of the tray.

Same here.

My gamertag died right before Mass Effect 3 came out (I couldn't recover it) so I had to run through Mass Effect 1 and 2 less than a week before the game came out with both a Paragon and Renegade Shepard. I had bought all DLC for both games (yes even Pinicle Station) to make sure I didn't miss anything on my Mass Effect 3 playthrough.

After I beat Mass Effect 3 with my Paragon Shepard I couldn't even bring myself to start my Renegade Shep let alone start my middle ground Shepard on ME 1. Apart from multiplayer and to run through Priority Earth when the EC came out, I have had no desire to play any Mass Effect game, heck I only play ME 3 multiplayer now because it is one of the few games I have in common with my brothers, and gaming is one of the few things we can do together seeing as we live in seperate states.

Yeah, I was going to try and start a Let's Play of Assassin's Creed, but the Multiplayer is very enjoyable. I love my Asari Adept and Justicar . You should add me, I'll send you a PM sometime today or tommorow, whenever I get around to it (I have a habit of procrastinating).

[spockjedi]

I believe the Crucible is both a mcguffin and a "acceptable" deus ex machina.
The child, on the other hand, is cleary an unacceptable deus ex machina. It only existis to allow us to choose what color we want to kill Shepard. I mean, if the Crucible simply fired a pulse that killed the Reapers (and only the Reapers) as soon as it docked on the Citadel, not narrative problems would arise.

[dreman9999]

TheMarshal wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

How is a wide scale emp device or mass scale AI system rewrite unrealalistic?

Added, based on a mcguffins definition...
In fiction, a MacGuffin[/b] (sometimes McGuffin[/b] or maguffin[/b]) is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so desirable. A MacGuffin, therefore, functions merely as "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot of a work of fiction".[1] In fact, the specific nature of the MacGuffin may be ambiguous, undefined, generic, left open to interpretation or otherwise completely unimportant to the plot. Common examples are money, victory, glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, a mysterious but highly desired item or object, or simply something that is entirely unexplained 

...The crucible is not a mcguffin. It has a clear definetion to why it's the players motivation.

At what point is the Crucible not a MacGuffin?  It's introduced as a set of Prothean schematics for a super-weapon against the Reapers, with no explanation as to how it works or what it does.  The player is then blindly throwing resources at it, and at no point is the true nature or effectiveness of it ever uncovered.  Liara flat out asks whether they're wasting their time pursuing something that they don't even fully understand, and it's Shepard, the avatar of the player, who is forced to say "Whelp, it's our best hope".

Even after Vendetta explains what the Catalyst is, the actual effect of the Crucible remains a mystery that we doggedly pursue until the moment that we're brought into Starchild's chamber and flat-out told what it does.

It's the very definition of a MacGuffin.

The fact that is has a clear reason to be seeked. Calling it a macguffin would be like calling the one ring a mcguffin , the armies in dragon age a mcguffin, and Saren a mcguffin. A true mcguffin is the ark from the indiana joine and the lost ark.

How it defeats the reaper being a mistery doesn't make it a mcguffin.

[dreman9999]

spockjedi wrote...

I believe the Crucible is both a mcguffin and a "acceptable" deus ex machina.
The child, on the other hand, is cleary an unacceptable deus ex machina. It only existis to allow us to choose what color we want to kill Shepard. I mean, if the Crucible simply fired a pulse that killed the Reapers (and only the Reapers) as soon as it docked on the Citadel, not narrative problems would arise.

How is it a deux ex if it was hitted at from before?(Lotsb) And with out automatily solving anything?
How is it a mcguffin if it's has a clear explination for being seeked?
 Also how is the starchild a deux ex if it just add more problem on the plyers problem bu vergil, who give Shepard the virus that stop Sovergin from opening the citadels mass relay and stop the problem, not a deux ex?

Modifié par dreman9999, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:48 .

[Dusen]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...
[/u]The Catalyst should have simply been a necessary component of the Crucible, and the Crucible should not have been a magical space canon, it should have been a device that would be used to weaken the Reapers, not destroy them at 'the push of the button' . . .

<everything inbetween>

. . .I think you get the point. There's a lot we want to see. But we want to see an amazing cinematic battle take place before our eyes, one that will be talked about and lauded for years to come, all while playing to the glorious sound of www.youtube.com/watch.

This ^ is ALL I expected of this game, heck, if I had just seen these cutscenes I would have given the game an 8/10 regardless of the rest of the game. Instead though, they decided to forego theme and narrative cohesion for the sake of starting a philosophical argument over an issue that was altogether secondary to the main goal of the game.

EDIT: Judging from the definition given a few posts above, the crucible can definitely be considered a mcguffin.

Modifié par Dusen, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .

[dreman9999]

Dusen wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...
[/u]The Catalyst should have simply been a necessary component of the Crucible, and the Crucible should not have been a magical space canon, it should have been a device that would be used to weaken the Reapers, not destroy them at 'the push of the button' (I believe one of the developers specifically said that there wouldn't be a 'Reaper off switch'). According to the game, the Crucible was built by all the previous cycles, and each had added something to it. What if the Crucible was a device that sent a pulse through the galaxy that would disable the Reapers' kinetic barriers. Perhaps the previous cycles had contributed to it by adding Reaper code and tech salvaged from those that they managed to kill conventionally, so that the Crucible would be able to send a pulse throughout the galaxy strong enough to detect the Reapers and hinder them. If this were the case, then the war assets we spent 30 hours collecting would actually mean something. EMS would actually matter. After using the Crucible, if your EMS is too low, the Reapers take losses, but they manage to wipe out the galaxy's forces, and the cycle continues. If your EMS is moderate, the Reapers take heavy casualties, the galaxy's forces are annihilated, but the Reapers are to weak to continue the cycle, they flee the milky for a very long time, giving the galaxy time to rebuild. If your EMS is very high, let's say +6,000; the Reapers are completely destroyed and the galaxy's forces take heavy losses, but the dreadful cycle of genocide has finally been broken, forever.

But we want to seet it happen in front of our eyes, we want to see our war assets fighting (an epic final battle with Harbinger would also be very nice). We want to see the fleet of council forces going toe to toe with the Reaper fleet, in an incredible Star warsesque clash. We want to see the entire Geth Armada come out of FTL, flanking the Reapers and obliterating several capital ships trying their to take down the Destiny Ascenscion, and saving it. We want to see Quarian commanders suicide crashing their burning ships into the Reapers, in a last desperate attempt to finish off the enemy, Keelah Se'lai!!! We want to see Turian fighters, ruthlessly rushing into the fray, dropping nuclear ordinance on capital ships.

Not just in space, we want to see this epic battle unfold on Earth. We want to see tens of thousands of Rachni soldiers swarming a Reaper Destroyer as it helplessly struggles to survive. We want to see Jack and her biotic squad shielding an anti-air outpost from an onslaught of Ravager artillery, so that the outpost can gun down several Harvesters and watch them give out one last guttural scream as they plunge to their deaths. We want to see Grunt charge at a Brute, shouting "I AM KROGAN!!!" as he single-handedly wrestles it to the ground and curb stomps its face into the concrete. We want to see an army of husks rushing a group of powerless Alliance marines who are being overwhelmed. As the marines close their eyes, preparing for the worst, the husks are gunned down by a platoon of Geth Primes. We want to see Liara fighting off multiple Marauders and get saved by a miracle sniper shot from Garrus. We want to see Vega and Ashley/Kaiden back to back, firing off at Cannibals from 360 degrees. We want to see Elcor Tanks relentlessly firing down upon Reapers and decimating them. We want to see Wrex and Wreav taking cover from on-going fire in a trench, then curtly nodding to eachother as they go over the top and lead a battalion of Krogan shocktroopers in a bloodrage battle charge.

I think you get the point. There's a lot we want to see. But we want to see an amazing cinematic battle take place before our eyes, one that will be talked about and lauded for years to come, all while playing to the glorious sound of www.youtube.com/watch.

This ^ is ALL I expected of this game, heck, if I had just seen these cutscenes I would have given the game an 8/10 regardless of the rest of the game. Instead though, they decided to forego theme and narrative cohesion for the sake of starting a philosophical argument over an issue that was altogether secondary to the main goal of the game.

So you wanted epic space battles with exposions but not a moraly defining plot and at the same time curse all 3 transformers movies under breath?

[Dusen]

dreman9999 wrote...
So you wanted epic space battles with exposions but not a moraly defining plot and at the same time curse all 3 transformers movies under breath?

What? . . . Where did transformers come into this? Is it the whole "action before story" aura surrounding those movies that you're trying to hint at? Well, guess what, I would have considered accepting the terrible endings we recieved had I at least witnessed those scenes that the OP mentioned. I want a morally defining plot as long as it fits with the rest of the narrative, but as the OP said, I would rather have just seen my choices come to matter in the closing of the series over anything else. Adding on to that, I didn't want a secondary issue forced onto me as though it was the actual driving issue behind the series from the beginning when it only began in the second game as a subplot to the greater "defeat the reapers" plot.

Modifié par Dusen, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .