54 réponses à ce sujet

[Spicen]

Hey guys, I have been thinking. and i thought it would be cool if the protagonist had the chance to be evil for once. I mean it IS a RPG. It would be very interesting to play as a BAD MAN for once.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

That could be an interesting way to play. However, it could prove very difficult to make as the game would have to be based around that concept from start to finish. Other games that have tried just end up making the player feel ridiculous when they story barely acknowledges their actions (something that is majorly complained about from DA2) so it would leave those who wanted to play a hero out in the cold just as much as those who want to play a villain typically are. There are definitely ways around it, most of them involving making the plot simpler overall so that these things can be accommodated and it can be quite enjoyable.

However, on a personal note, I just hate playing as the villain so I'd rather not see that. That's just me though.

[Spicen]

I liked playing as Arthas He was my evil mhero of the decade. Not even the warden made me feel as much intrigued. I want to be evil and like to kill innocent people and I look at their helpless faces. Hahahahahahahahaha

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Tevinter Magister would work for this. Or maybe 'another' Witch of the Wilds.

Although they aren't 100% hardcore evil, their actions and motives could be morally questionable.

A fanatical Seeker could be too. (like the typical Inqusitior character)

[Dave of Canada]

How can you be "evil" in a universe that tries to portray itself above such notions, though? Everyone has motivation and reasoning for their decisions, the line between "antagonist" and "protagonist" just depends on how you view the situation.

[Pzykozis]

Dave of Canada wrote...

How can you be "evil" in a universe that tries to portray itself above such notions, though? Everyone has motivation and reasoning for their decisions, the line between "antagonist" and "protagonist" just depends on how you view the situation.

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

[deatharmonic]

i'd like that, it would be cool if the story arc could accommodate good vs evil paths within the choice of siding with templars or mages

[hero 2]

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

Oh spoilers.... well if you're doing them, I will too.. WARNING: Spoilers in this (No Spoilers allowed) forum:

That doesn't work:
a) Meredith is dutifully protecting the city from the huge recent rise in blood mages, and something is just enhancing that into paranoia.

Archdemon is not necessarily evil, it is a corrupted old god. That old god might have been a benevolent god. Sadly, we know nothing of the thoughts of the archdemon or it's motivations because it acts more like an instinct-driven animal.

[Fauxnormal]

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero.

[iheartbob]

You could kind of be evil in DA:O. You could choose to sell a kid's soul to a demon in exchange for learning blood magic/augmenting your powers. You could murder the elves. You can decide to keep the anvil of the void and you can decide to defile Andraste's ashes. The only thing that game lacked as far as truely evil goes is you can't choose to side with the Archdemon in the end.

Personally, I'd like to see a game in the future that possibly gives you the option of becoming a Tevinter Magistrate in the end. I think we could all agree on that being a potetially "evil" anti-hero.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

iheartbob wrote...

You could kind of be evil in DA:O. You could choose to sell a kid's soul to a demon in exchange for learning blood magic/augmenting your powers. You could murder the elves. You can decide to keep the anvil of the void and you can decide to defile Andraste's ashes. The only thing that game lacked as far as truely evil goes is you can't choose to side with the Archdemon in the end.
 

But all this you do for a noble goal. And that's the problem. There should rather be a selfish goal. Ii know it might sound boring - but saving your love for instance, how much would you sacrifice for her? Just yourself? Or City? A race? or a whole world? Or simply a thrirst for power - where you would be doing this for gaining an advancement in society, rather then some stupid save the world.

The EVIL, is EVIL because its selfish, becuse its goals are only for themselves - Edwin didn't care about anyone, he wanted power, Viconia just wanted to survive , and she would gladly sell you all out, if there would be a chance to survive without the group, that iron smugling dwarf (on  K) - he didn't give a damn about anyone and anything, but his bussinies with iron along Sword Coasts.

So the main character should have a selfish goal. Hawke could have being made so, but instead he/she is saving/helping his/jher familly, and in reallity doesn't have the 'required' kind of attitude to be considered evil.

[Cultist]

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero.

You seem to be new in the world of RPGs. Especially to hardcore bioWare RPG before their decline, like where you can sell eggs of good female dragon to the demon in exchange for favor. Or where you can usurp the place of Mephistopheles and rule entire circle of Hell. Or where you murder right and left. or slice the throat of posessed child in DA:Origins. Or blackmail a father holding hostage his newborn child. Or kill girl to force her  father in dispair so he'll give you writ for the land. That's just what I remembered in a minute.

[LobselVith8]

iheartbob wrote...

You could kind of be evil in DA:O. You could choose to sell a kid's soul to a demon in exchange for learning blood magic/augmenting your powers. You could murder the elves. You can decide to keep the anvil of the void and you can decide to defile Andraste's ashes. The only thing that game lacked as far as truely evil goes is you can't choose to side with the Archdemon in the end.

Personally, I'd like to see a game in the future that possibly gives you the option of becoming a Tevinter Magistrate in the end. I think we could all agree on that being a potetially "evil" anti-hero.

I never saw the Anvil as evil - it's a pragmatic choice over a sentimental one. I thought Caridin made a monstrous choice in abandoning his people to the darkspawn. I suppose being 'evil' is in the eye of the beholder.

[Dave of Canada]

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:15 .

[LobselVith8]

Rojahar wrote...

The archdemon was a character? Do the chairs in the Hanged Man count as characters too?

They certainly had more personality than some of the mages and templars in the story.

[Pzykozis]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

True, though to be honest I'd discount Loghain by the fact that he too is either unbelieveably inept or just insane. Would that his actions actually put Ferelden in any sort of stronger position against his foe then sure, but really everything he did failed horribly and was doomed to fail from the outset. Hard for me to think of him as good depending on the viewpoint when his viewpoint is just flawed and everything about him so full of fail especially in comparison to the book where he's a tactical genius etc.

Loghain doesn't really measure up to someone like Letho who's actions actually further his cause sure he's not good depending on his viewpoint cause even from his own he's being selfish but none of the people he's to kill have any meaning to him only his goal, and he goes a far way towards achieving it (which really makes him no different to a PC in a game really). Ferelden is barely even a shell by Loghains schemes civil war darkspawn encroachment, I'd have been suprised if he could even hold back an invasion from Orlais if they actually had gone through with the attack, but I'm biased Loghain disappointed me a lot, he's a great character but he just doesn't live upto himself.

[Fauxnormal]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

No, I know that, smart ass, thank you. But your role in a video game such as DA or Mass Effect is to be the hero. Even a renegade Shep still wants to stop the collectors and save the galaxy. Even a jerkass Hawke fights for what he/she belives in.

[DeathScepter]

it would be interesting to have an Cure is worse that the Problem type of Villainous Hero.

[deatharmonic]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

No, I know that, smart ass, thank you. But your role in a video game such as DA or Mass Effect is to be the hero. Even a renegade Shep still wants to stop the collectors and save the galaxy. Even a jerkass Hawke fights for what he/she belives in.

Being a hero doesn't mean you can't be evil. Fable implement this in a decent way imo, your character ends up saving the world but along the way you can be a self-serving, cruel douche if you want. Now in terms of the next DA they could implement something similar. Where, like fable your character ends up saving the world but along the way is able to choose a distinctly evil path. Furthermore, it would be easy for Bioware to provide dialogue options to state ones motivations, i mean if DA3 is a 'saving the world' type thing like DAO and ME then an evil protag would surely do it for self serving reasons i.e. 'i dont give a crap about everyone else in the world/galaxy, im doing this so i wont die'

[Augustei]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

No, I know that, smart ass, thank you. But your role in a video game such as DA or Mass Effect is to be the hero. Even a renegade Shep still wants to stop the collectors and save the galaxy. Even a jerkass Hawke fights for what he/she belives in.

Tell that to my Sith warrior in TOR, or my Fable and Fable 2 characters.. I could go on naming characters but I cant really be bothered.. Anyway wishing to accomplish the primary goal of stopping the antagonist doesn't prevent the possibility of being an evil protagonist

[Wulfram]

I pretty qucikly lose interest in playing characters who I don't regard as at least having their hearts in the right place.

I'm not against the option existing, though it's difficult to properly accomodate in a video game.

[Fauxnormal]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

Archdemon, and Meredith say hi?

That's assuming the Archdemon was the true antagonist (rather than driving force) of DA:O and not Loghain.

Meredith and Orsino were horribly written into the plot.

Fauxnormal wrote...

No. That goes completely and utterly against the point of being the protagonist. You know- the hero. 

 

Protagonist =/= hero.

No, I know that, smart ass, thank you. But your role in a video game such as DA or Mass Effect is to be the hero. Even a renegade Shep still wants to stop the collectors and save the galaxy. Even a jerkass Hawke fights for what he/she belives in.

Tell that to my Sith warrior in TOR, or my Fable and Fable 2 characters.. I could go on naming characters but I cant really be bothered.. Anyway wishing to accomplish the primary goal of stopping the antagonist doesn't prevent the possibility of being an evil protagonist

And yet at the end of the day, NOT counting TOR, you still saved the day. You might be a jackass along the way, but you did. That's called being a jerkass hero or an anti-hero. NOT evil.

Black and white is boring. Being an 'evil' protagonist is stupid, dull, and pointless.