So...a large chunk of people hate Synthesis because it's ridiculously advanced science (coined as "Space Magic" because it's outside our realm of understanding)...
...But no one has a problem with the "Space Magic" that is the Reapers?
I mean, I accept that the game makes them a collective uploaded consciousness of entire civilizations (ME2 implied it with Legion's statements regarding Sovereign/Nazara, and then canonized it in ME3), but that doesn't make the process by which they do it any less ridiculous or space-magicky.
And then Control does the exact same thing to Shepard (breaks Shepard down and somehow uploads his/her consciousness).
On the topic of space magic...
Débuté par
RiouHotaru
, juil. 07 2012 05:21
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#2
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:26
mambastyle
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Riou...you're applying common sense to this...
That's frowned upon in this establishment...
That's frowned upon in this establishment...
#3
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:27
Tealjaker94
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If you don't see the difference in degree, then you can go on and have your space utopia. Thoughts are just electrical impulses in the brain. Thinking that those impulses could somehow be uploaded to a computer doesn't take much suspension of disbelief. A wave of energy that somehow gives every living being in the galaxy some sort of synthetic-organic DNA basically throws everything we know about biology out the window.
#5
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:31
RiouHotaru
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Tealjaker94 wrote...
If you don't see the difference in degree, then you can go on and have your space utopia. Thoughts are just electrical impulses in the brain. Thinking that those impulses could somehow be uploaded to a computer doesn't take much suspension of disbelief. A wave of energy that somehow gives every living being in the galaxy some sort of synthetic-organic DNA basically throws everything we know about biology out the window.
There's a difference between electrical impluses and melting people down into grey goo and making them part of the composite alloy of a giant squid-ship that somehow preserves the consciousness.
Face it, the Reapers themselves are as ridiculous space magic as Synthesis. I accept the Reapers because the game canonizes it, despite my lack of understanding of how the process works.
#6
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:33
Deltoran
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I don't care so much about the 'Space Magic' of Synthesis as much as I do the moral implication of changing everyone in the galaxy without their consent. To me, that's worse than either the Control or Destroy moral dilemmas.
#7
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:35
Tealjaker94
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The game never tells us that the individual minds are preserved. I assumed the organic material was just used as part of the construction and the Reaper was driven by an AI. I was referring to the upload of Shepard in control.RiouHotaru wrote...
Tealjaker94 wrote...
If you don't see the difference in degree, then you can go on and have your space utopia. Thoughts are just electrical impulses in the brain. Thinking that those impulses could somehow be uploaded to a computer doesn't take much suspension of disbelief. A wave of energy that somehow gives every living being in the galaxy some sort of synthetic-organic DNA basically throws everything we know about biology out the window.
There's a difference between electrical impluses and melting people down into grey goo and making them part of the composite alloy of a giant squid-ship that somehow preserves the consciousness.
Face it, the Reapers themselves are as ridiculous space magic as Synthesis. I accept the Reapers because the game canonizes it, despite my lack of understanding of how the process works.
#8
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:35
Penumbra80
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Creating mini black holes with your brain is also space magic, but most people overlook that when using it in the heat of battle. 
#9
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:38
KFrey
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Penumbra80 wrote...
Creating mini black holes with your brain is also space magic, but most people overlook that when using it in the heat of battle.
To be fair, people are able to accept that because they bothered to but some sci-fi techno babble into the game that explains it. You know, what with the eezo nodes along people's nervous systems and how the biotic implant is what enables people to create and control these mass effect fields.
#10
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:39
Penumbra80
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Tealjaker94 wrote...
The game never tells us that the individual minds are preserved. I assumed the organic material was just used as part of the construction and the Reaper was driven by an AI. I was referring to the upload of Shepard in control.
Legion states otherwise. "One ship, one will, many minds" and "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies."
#11
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:39
Wulfram
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When you have to use words like "essence" you are in pretty bad space magic territory, yeah. Happily, most of the dumber parts of the explanations of the Reapers aren't very important to the plot.
I can accept them as just the results of a truly screwed up AI and ignore some of the sillier stuff in there.
I can accept them as just the results of a truly screwed up AI and ignore some of the sillier stuff in there.
#12
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:40
Tealjaker94
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Then that's bull**** just like synthesis. I remain consistent.Penumbra80 wrote...
Tealjaker94 wrote...
The game never tells us that the individual minds are preserved. I assumed the organic material was just used as part of the construction and the Reaper was driven by an AI. I was referring to the upload of Shepard in control.
Legion states otherwise. "One ship, one will, many minds" and "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies."
#13
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:41
Isichar
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KFrey wrote...
Penumbra80 wrote...
Creating mini black holes with your brain is also space magic, but most people overlook that when using it in the heat of battle.
To be fair, people are able to accept that because they bothered to but some sci-fi techno babble into the game that explains it. You know, what with the eezo nodes along people's nervous systems and how the biotic implant is what enables people to create and control these mass effect fields.
I accept it because it lets me make miniature black holes, which is just fun.
#14
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:43
Those Protheans
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mambastyle wrote...
Riou...you're applying common sense to this...
That's frowned upon in this establishment...
I don't think you understand common sense.
A wave of green stuff getting everywhere in the galaxy changing everything into abominations is something that can not be compared to anything.
#15
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:43
savionen
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Synthesis is in no way explained to a logical effect. There's no techno-babble. Half of the problem is also what's attached to it.
The Reapers are already these mystical immortal god-creatures. Everything about them is amazing or frightening. We've already got the geth consensus and geth servers, so the idea of something similiar in organic form isn't that ridiculous. Mass Effect was building upon itss own lore, its own logic. Synthesis doesn't really build off of anything.
Synthesis is Space-Magic because it's a choice given to you by a God-Kid because of the Crucible that WE built. Every aspect of it is space magic. It somehow creates this huge green wave that touches EVERYTHING in the entire galaxy. There's no easing into it, there's no real explanation. Not to mention the non-EC version of Synthesis was fundamentally impossible, breaking any sort of scientific logic.
The Reapers are already these mystical immortal god-creatures. Everything about them is amazing or frightening. We've already got the geth consensus and geth servers, so the idea of something similiar in organic form isn't that ridiculous. Mass Effect was building upon itss own lore, its own logic. Synthesis doesn't really build off of anything.
Synthesis is Space-Magic because it's a choice given to you by a God-Kid because of the Crucible that WE built. Every aspect of it is space magic. It somehow creates this huge green wave that touches EVERYTHING in the entire galaxy. There's no easing into it, there's no real explanation. Not to mention the non-EC version of Synthesis was fundamentally impossible, breaking any sort of scientific logic.
Modifié par savionen, 07 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .
#16
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:43
Torrible
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However magical Synthesis seems, it's hard to top coming back from the dead (Shepard).
#17
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:45
savionen
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Torrible wrote...
However magical Synthesis seems, it's hard to top coming back from the dead (Shepard).
Well, we at least have cloning in our current age. You can replace tissue with stim cells, etc. It is a bit space-magic'y but at least it's grounded SOMEWHERE, instead of giving robots DNA.
#18
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:47
D24O
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Well, Reapers have 3 games to be introduced and explained, which lets us come to terms with it and mold our suspension of disbelief to accept them as part of the ME universe. With the endings we have 10 originally, now a little longer, to try to processes a lot of info that isn't really explained to the extent that ME usually goes. It's too much too fast, and it's hard for the suspension of disbelief to hold up.
#19
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:48
BatmanPWNS
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Lol, even Bioware (in the form of star brat) can't even explain Synthesis properly and use the poor excuse of "There is no time" to hide it. Space magic, it is.
#21
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:56
IntuitionJo
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Actually, to be honest? I DO have a problem with the space magic that is the Reapers.
The difference is that we can tolerate the Reapers, simply because though they're unrealistic to every degree, they're not going to pull a plot derailment using it.
Ohwaittheydo.
The difference is that we can tolerate the Reapers, simply because though they're unrealistic to every degree, they're not going to pull a plot derailment using it.
Ohwaittheydo.
#22
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:57
Heeden
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Mass Effect already had generous dollops of space magic with eezo, biotics and psychics. Synthesis didn't come as much of a surprise.
#23
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:57
RiouHotaru
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savionen wrote...
Synthesis is in no way explained to a logical effect. There's no techno-babble. Half of the problem is also what's attached to it.
The Reapers are already these mystical immortal god-creatures. Everything about them is amazing or frightening. We've already got the geth consensus and geth servers, so the idea of something similiar in organic form isn't that ridiculous. Mass Effect was building upon itss own lore, its own logic. Synthesis doesn't really build off of anything.
Synthesis is Space-Magic because it's a choice given to you by a God-Kid because of the Crucible that WE built. Every aspect of it is space magic. It somehow creates this huge green wave that touches EVERYTHING in the entire galaxy. There's no easing into it, there's no real explanation. Not to mention the non-EC version of Synthesis was fundamentally impossible, breaking any sort of scientific logic.
Synthesis builds off the organics/synthetics issue which has been around since ME1. Also, that's the reason the sci-fi author who unintentionally helped create the term 'space-magic' called it as such:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." That's why there's no techno-babble about Synthesis. It operates on a level that current science cannot explain or wrap it's brain around.
The Geth Consensus isn't the same thing because the Geth are synthetic. What the Reapers have is, yes, an organic form of the Consensus. But there's NO explanation how such a thing can be possible since organic minds aren't the same as synthetic programs.
#24
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:58
RiouHotaru
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IntuitionJo wrote...
Actually, to be honest? I DO have a problem with the space magic that is the Reapers.
The difference is that we can tolerate the Reapers, simply because though they're unrealistic to every degree, they're not going to pull a plot derailment using it.
Ohwaittheydo.
The hilarious part is that the Codex itself acknowledges how outrageous they are. It outright states that the Reapers violence the laws of physics and science with their power-sources and their capabilities.
#25
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 05:59
Tealjaker94
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How does the crucible operate on a level that far beyond our comprehension if we built it?
