234 réponses à ce sujet

[MyChemicalBromance]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

How does the crucible operate on a level that far beyond our comprehension if we built it?

The Catalyst says that it is little more than a power source. I think the Citadel contains the choices.

Also, I love how people yell space magic, yet the way the space shuttle operates might as well be space magic to the majority of people here.

I think Synthesis is the spreading of nanites, which the extended cut scenes back up.

[Torrible]

Love Sherri wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

They didn't realize synthesis was a possibility yet they built the necessary equipment for it into the citadel?

I think the Catalyst always had synthesis in mind. The idea was theoretically possible but impractical until the Crucible was connected to the Citadel. Then he had the energy source he needed for his 'new' solutions.

1. While the Catalyst had knowledge of the Crucible existing from previous cycles, he admits he thought all knowledge of it and it's schematics had been destroyed.

2. The Catalyst did not build the Cruicible.  The RGB ending choices (or as you say, "new solutions") are the Cruicible's options, not the Catalyst's.

I thought they are the Citadel's options, not the crucible, which is only a power source.

Modifié par Torrible, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:38 .

[im commander shep]

Most sci-fi has a degree of space magic and degree of logic. To simplify.

Destroy ending 10% space magic 90% logic
Control ending 20% space magic 80%logic
Synthesis ending 100% space magic 100% anti-logic

Compared to the rest of the game this is.

[Ryzaki]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's all space magic yes.

But some space magic is more believable and less retarded than others.

How are the Reapers any more believable than Synthesis?

Because it's feasible for the Reapers simply to be insane AI that think the organic slushies give them thoughts. Their inventions also seem feasible given the suspension of disbelief required for eezo and crap.

Only Synthesis makes it so that slushie actually turns out to have knowledge and thoughts. That and synthesis somehow makes it so every organic being in the galaxy is changed into a halfbreed via green light. Just...no. The sheer scale is...no.

Without Synthesis one can simply think the Reapers are deluded insane rogue AI and nothing contadicts that...save synthesis. Thus why it's a far grevious offender of space magic.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:43 .

[mauro2222]

Torrible wrote...

The Crucible (power source) took many cycles (research and trial and error) to be successfully built. The Catalyst isn't ominpotent. He couldn't know anything that his creators didn't. He had to learn stuff along the way like everyone else.

That's the problem, it doesn't learn. And the Catalyst doesn't want the Crucible to be builded.

[wantedman dan]

Love Sherri wrote...

Sci-Fi =/= SpaceMagic

And with that, we can say

/thread

[Fawx9]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's all space magic yes.

But some space magic is more believable and less retarded than others.

How are the Reapers any more believable than Synthesis?

Because the story was based on these Old God like beings comming in and killing us when they felt like it.

It's what our suspension of disbelief signed up for at the start. It was only a small stretch to add in the fact that the minds of those they devoured lived on in agnoy within them. It fit well with the whole Cthulu old god thing.

A giant green wave of feelings and energy that magically changes everyone at a genetic level by implanting machine parts is nowhere near what we signed up for. Especially when its presented in the last 5 minutes. 

Modifié par Fawx9, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:44 .

[im commander shep]

Reapers are not created via a green beam of space magic in the blink of an eye. Yes we are never full told how organic much is turned into pieces of reaper but if you consider that everything in the galaxy is made of carbon oxygen and hydrogen atoms if you brake something down into these constituant atoms you can build it into something else. Something like this is 100x more beliveable than the synthesis consept of changing the DNA of every single organic lifeform in the galaxy. Just saying that sounds crazy.

[Torrible]

mauro2222 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

The Crucible (power source) took many cycles (research and trial and error) to be successfully built. The Catalyst isn't ominpotent. He couldn't know anything that his creators didn't. He had to learn stuff along the way like everyone else.

That's the problem, it doesn't learn. And the Catalyst doesn't want the Crucible to be builded.

Why not? He seemed rather pleased with the discovery of new solutions.

Modifié par Torrible, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[Gruntburner]

I think the problem is that it isn't explained. People don't have a problem with much of the science related entries in the codex, despite the fact that they like to employ, what I call, fancy sounding words. Most are nonsense from a physics perspective.

Modifié par Gruntburner, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .

[Hackulator]

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

[wantedman dan]

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

Science fiction is not space magic.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[Heeden]

Fawx9 wrote...

So basically what your saying is Synthesis happens because of Shepard's feelings.

Ya, that totally doesn't sound like winning with the power of love and friendship at all.

Obviously a conventional victory is much to unrealstic compared to this.

[Heeden]

wantedman dan wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

Science fiction does is not space magic.

By that argument Synthesis isn't magic, it's suitably-advanced-science.

[Fawx9]

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

It's space magic grounded within the confines of the story.

Every story requires some suspension of disbelief in order to work. We signed up with everything you mentioned being explained in some way within the story. This helped our suspension of disbelief to be set at a certain level.

The green wave of feelings, unicorns, rainbows and energy destorys it. It's nowhere close to what we had preparred for. The worst of it is that it happens at the very end with no build up, so of course most people are going WTF.

I don't get why this is such a hard concept to understand, if a story teller goes to far of course they're going to get people calling their story ridiculous.

[Love Sherri]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's all space magic yes.

But some space magic is more believable and less retarded than others.

How are the Reapers any more believable than Synthesis?

Reapers - thoroughly established villian introduced in the begining as the arch-enemy to all civilization

Synthesis - no documentation, no visa, introduced 10 minutes before end

Apples  =/=  Oranges

[Hackulator]

wantedman dan wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

Science fiction does is not space magic.

Uhhhhh....what?

[wantedman dan]

Hackulator wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

Science fiction does is not space magic.

Uhhhhh....what?

Sorry. Typo.

I was going to write "does not equal" but decided to say "is not" mid-sentence. It's been corrected.

[Hackulator]

Fawx9 wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

It's space magic grounded within the confines of the story.

Every story requires some suspension of disbelief in order to work. We signed up with everything you mentioned being explained in some way within the story. This helped our suspension of disbelief to be set at a certain level.

The green wave of feelings, unicorns, rainbows and energy destorys it. It's nowhere close to what we had preparred for. The worst of it is that it happens at the very end with no build up, so of course most people are going WTF.

I don't get why this is such a hard concept to understand, if a story teller goes to far of course they're going to get people calling their story ridiculous.

The Crucible was part of the story for the entire third game, and throughout the game you learn that it is the combined work of EVERY cycle that has ever existed. Every type of technology that was ever created, every kind of thought process that a living being has ever had, all have gone into the creation of the Crucible. The resources of every species currently part of the Galactic community have gone into building it. So, how is that a less significans background for understanding than, for example, "eezo makes it work"?

Modifié par Hackulator, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:58 .

[wantedman dan]

Heeden wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

Everything in Mass Effect is Space Magic. Biotics, Mass Relays, FTL, Telepathy, Resurrection....it is ALL space magic, and people who say things like "oh well element zero explains it" are being retarded, cause all element zero is is more space magic.

Science fiction does is not space magic.

By that argument Synthesis isn't magic, it's suitably-advanced-science.

By completely coming out of left-field and having no precedent in the lore.

Sure, it might by Syfy channel standards for their d-rate movies.

[RiouHotaru]

Love Sherri wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's all space magic yes.

But some space magic is more believable and less retarded than others.

How are the Reapers any more believable than Synthesis?

Reapers - thoroughly established villian introduced in the begining as the arch-enemy to all civilization

Synthesis - no documentation, no visa, introduced 10 minutes before end

Apples  =/=  Oranges

...Uhhh, the idea of Synthesis is brought up a few times over the course of the series, and the Reapers are, by very definition of what they are and what they can do, "space magic".

Granny Smith Apples = Red Apples

[RiouHotaru]

wantedman dan wrote...

By completely coming out of left-field and having no precedent in the lore.

Saren

EDI

The Geth/Quarian conflict

The Rogue AI sidequest in ME1

Project Overlord



That seems like precedent in lore to me...

[Love Sherri]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Love Sherri wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It's all space magic yes.

But some space magic is more believable and less retarded than others.

How are the Reapers any more believable than Synthesis?

Reapers - thoroughly established villian introduced in the begining as the arch-enemy to all civilization

Synthesis - no documentation, no visa, introduced 10 minutes before end

Apples  =/=  Oranges

...Uhhh, the idea of Synthesis is brought up a few times over the course of the series, and the Reapers are, by very definition of what they are and what they can do, "space magic".

Granny Smith Apples = Red Apples

 

[Ryzaki]

RiouHotaru wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

By completely coming out of left-field and having no precedent in the lore.

Saren

EDI

The Geth/Quarian conflict

The Rogue AI sidequest in ME1

Project Overlord



That seems like precedent in lore to me...

Let's break this apart as they come.

Saren: Complete failure. Implants were used as mind control by Reapers. He died a puppet. Hell if you talk some sense into him he kills himself because he knows he's a puppet.

EDI: Isn't Synthesis in the least. Her bodies synthetic. Her forming attachment =/= synthesis. It = cooperation and understanding.

Geth Quarian conflict: Both Geth and Quarians...remain Geth and Quarians. The geth deciding to upload into the Quarians suits and help them with their immune systems doesn't make them similar beings. They cooperate IN SPITE OF their differences. They don't get rid of them. Not synthesis.

Project Overlord: Same. An attempted cooperation inspite of differences (well more like an attemtped control but still David was clearly organic only his mind was being used in an attempt to control the Geth via virtual interaction). Plus it was a massive failure because David couldn't handle the sensory output that the hordes of Geth were putting out.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:07 .

[mauro2222]

Torrible wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

The Crucible (power source) took many cycles (research and trial and error) to be successfully built. The Catalyst isn't ominpotent. He couldn't know anything that his creators didn't. He had to learn stuff along the way like everyone else.

That's the problem, it doesn't learn. And the Catalyst doesn't want the Crucible to be builded.

Why not? He seemed rather pleased with the existence of new solutions.

Because the Catalyst doesn't build it itself? Shep says "Why didn't you stop it?" the kid responds "We believed the concept had been eradicated"... that's clear as water.