8 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Oh for the love of Christ...

NO. Loghain didn't know Darkspawn would go into the Tower. Gaider himself said so when people posed the same query to him. He failed to properly take care of them, that much is true. But he didn't let it happen because he's so "MUAHAHAHA EVIL" as you're trying to make him out to be.

And I blame Bioware for the Tower of Ishal's lower levels never having been sealed, as should've been done. They don't know **** about warfare.

[TEWR]

As I said, I find it to be a tactical error, but not an act of treason -- due in large part to David Gaider saying the Tower wasn't breached because Loghain wanted it to be breached. It was breached because no safeguards were put in place. 

David Gaider said that Loghain wanted either his men or Uldred in the Tower, because they were people he could trust. If he wanted his men or Uldred in the Tower, leaving the Tower susceptible to invasion just so he could have a justifiable reason for leaving the field would be asenine, because that wouldn't really make any sense considering Loghain would've charged to save Cailan had the battle been winnable using his strategy. That's not the case. The Tower was breached not out of treason, but out of tactical errors.

David Gaider also said that if the battle was winnable, Loghain would've charged to save Cailan. Indeed, the toolset will show you the dialogue notes when you confront him about Cailan's death, telling you that he never wanted Cailan dead despite their disagreements.

I blame Bioware more for it then Loghain himself, because Bioware doesn't know **** about warfare. Indeed, my Dwarf Nobles and I did a double facepalm when hearing about the Tower's lower levels being "explored", more so when they heard Loghain was the general of Ferelden for 30 years and was just now bothering to learn about Ostagar.

And you should give a damn what DG says on the matter, because it's Word of God. You can't argue with it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 juillet 2012 - 03:31 .

[Fiacre]

Well, one could go with a "the author is dead" perspective, in which case one could disregard Gaider's comments... But tbh, I've never been fond of that interpretation, so personally I agree that it's WoG and counts.

I wonder if maybe they tried to seal the lower levels but weren't able to due to the Darkspawn overwhelming them? Or... considering that accessing the lower levels of your tower through a giant hole in the floor is a rather odd way to do it, maybe that wasn't originally the case and the Darkspawn simply broke through?

I find it interesting that a character with high Cunning can ask why the 'Spawn attack the tower at all if they didn't know the plan somehow -- by which I don't mean to say that Loghain did it, he can't have (I mean, really, even if he had wanted to, how would one even give such information to the Darkspawn? It'd make no sense.) -- but did Gaider ever address that? I can't remember reading anything from him that did, but I'm not as well-versed in his comments on the topic of Ostagar as some.

[thats1evildude]

It's simply foreshadowing that the darkspawn would invade the tower.

That said, there's a reason why Loghain insisted that only his men be stationed in the Tower of Ishal.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .

[Dintonta]

On the same line of thoughts, I've always wondered about Flemeth's timing at the top of the Tower. The more obvious explanation is "she is a very powerful magic being, and possess divination means", yet...

[Confederate Republic]

Personally I always thought she used her dragon form to rescue Alistair and the Warden. "One in each talon". As for knowing when they were going to fall, or even that they were going to fall at all... that's a bit trickier to figure.

I remember someone mentioning (I think on the wiki) that they thought Flemeth might have been the High Dragon that rampaged in Orlais, allowing Loghain to win at River Dane. If so, then combined with her rescue of Hawke, and her timing at the Tower of Ishal, than it would seem she has a talent for causing world-changing events.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think more specifically, Gaider also said that Loghain was planning to scuttle the beacon if the battle couldn't be won, so that he couldn't be blamed for not charging. I don't believe Gaider mentions the Lower Chambers thing, but that doesn't mean Loghain's decision that the Tower should be off limits doesn't make more sense in that context. Of course, this plan gets more complicated and conceivably unworkable with two Wardens in the Tower, and Word Of God (not to mention common sense) indicates that the completely uncontrollable darkspawn were not part of this plan.

Since this is the second time I've seen you mention this hypothesis of yours (I refuse to call it a theory), despite the fact that you've heard all the counterarguments the first time, I feel the need to ask at this point... are you trolling? (Please forgive me if you're not, I simply view it as a legitimate interpretation. And no, I'm not referring to the part where he tries to screw over Cailan, that's not too farfetched as it turns out. What I'm referring to is your theory that he'd use darkspawn to do it, and so close to where he's standing.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:32 .