45 réponses à ce sujet

[Pstemarie]

Project Q has revised its loadscreens.2da to include the lines from the CTP, Maxam's classic Dungeon, Maxam's Versatile Dungeon, Six's Wildwoods, and The CCC City.

The following lines are no longer reserved - they are LOCKED as an integral part of Q: 

CTP - lines 210-249, 260-294
classic Dungeon - line 330 (moved here from line 130 - conflict with Bioware change)
Versatile Dungeon - line 580
CCC City - lines 1000-1009
Wildwoods - lines 1010-1018

Users of these tilesets will NOT have to modify loadscreens.2da to use these tilesets with Project Q. Note that we have only added the 2da lines, not the images. The loadscreens will only appear if the tileset hak is included.

As work progresses on v1.5 I will look at the other 2da files and areag.ini included in some of these packages and see what is required to resolve any lingering compatibility issues with Project Q. As of this writing the following tilesets can be used with Project Q v1.5 simply by dropping them into your module BELOW the Project Q haks:

CTP (ALL)
Maxam's classic Dungeon v0.9.1
Maxam's Versatile Dungeon v0.9.3
Six's Wildlands v0.5.5
Six's Winter Wildlands v0.5.5
Six's Wildwoods v0.7

More information is available on the Project Q Forums at http://www.qnwn.net/...hp?topic=1562.0

Modifié par Pstemarie, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:31 .

[Pstemarie]

The list of compatible tilesets has grown pretty extensive:

CTP Releases by CTP Team
CTP Babylon by CTP Team
Catacombs v0.2 by Six
classic Dungeon v0.9.1 by Maxam
Cypress Swamp v2 Beta by LoW
Deep Dungeon v0.2 by Six
DLA Canopied Forest v1.03 (Replacing) by DLA Team
Dwarven Chasms v0.2 by Six
Fantasy Interiors v3 by LoW
Forest Expansion by Tom Banjo
Icy Caverns v0.9 by Senemenelas
Mirkwood Swamp v16 by LoW
Ravencast Forest by NWN_baba yaga
Scorched Earth v1 by LoW
Seasonal Forest v10 by LoW
Underdark v0.69 by Senemenelas
Undersea v4 by LoW
Versatile Dungeon v0.9.3 by Maxam
Wildlands v0.5.5 by Six
Wildwoods v0.7 by Six
Winter Wildlands v0.5.5 by Six

Community Music Pack by Tiberius Morguhn

Note: If using multiple tilesets from the list above, it does not matter what order the haks are placed in as long as they are ALL placed below the Project Q haks. Furthermore, it is advised that all CTP haks be grouped together and the CTP's hierarchy adhered to.

Yes, I know the CMP isn't a tileset, but I wasn't creating a thread for a one-item list.

Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:16 .

[Pstemarie]

Also, my humblest apologies for shamelessly hi-jacking this thread to promote Project Q...

Modifié par Pstemarie, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:17 .

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Rolo Kipp wrote...

<collecting...>
<snipping for brevity>

Edit: In the meantime, Bannor, MDA... who owns the Community Tileset Project now?

I do specifically.  However, a large section of the orgiinal source files are missing... no, let me re-phrase... a large section of the MODIFICATIONS made by CTP are missing.  The originals I have burned on CD, and may have some of the modifications too, but I can't check while I am in the nursing home.

What challenges would we have to revive the organization with a slightly different mission - to coordinate the existing, 3rd party tilesets (and new *cough* Babayaga *cough* ones that come along) into, as Paul points out, a comprehensive replacement superset?

<...a few more gems>

files needing to be checked./modified etc.
1) areg.ini ... not necessary, but if setup correctly, makes using the various tilesets easier for builders.
2) doortypes.2da --  This one is ABSOLUTELY necessary since many/most tilesets add/change doors for specific groups etc.
3) various texture names.  This becomes very problematic.  Many tileset authors direclty replace a specific bioware texture with a different texture of the exact same name.  IE, badly named/re-skinned tiles.  May or may not be an issue, but is something the CTP handled by renaming every texture we used.  No way to interfere if all of our textures are prefixed by "ctp_" etc... many authors don't make that special effort.  By not having tileset specific named textures, you can totally trash OTHER tilesets when you override their textures with your modified ones.,

I think there may be some other files that should have attention payed to them, but I can't remember without reviewing the various CTP resource lists I have at home.


Some other notes... CTP's original plans were for a 40 tileset release.  That got changed as the team was reduced in size etc... our tilesets were built as single haks per tileset to allow builders to choose specific tilesets without wasting space/time with tilesets they may not use.  Folks now seem to not mind having large downloads, but a huge hak containing multiple tilesets vastly increases loadtime for ANY area using ANY of the various tilesets in a specific hak.  IE a huge hak containing 15 different tileset with all the resulting files, will kill a server qand likely kill the client as well.

We have a 50 hak limit.  This vastly reduces the total number of tilesets we can use, most especially when talking about having these along with various other hak combos...(IE Project Q, CEP) or anything that is adding placeables etc.

CTP tilesets NEVER add placeables.  Too many groups/authors etc, were adding to and editing plaeables to make it worthwhile to attempt to have CTP specific placeable additions.  Too many files to track/merge etc...

Anyway, general BUMP to keep topic going.

[AndarianTD]

On the original thread topic: What kinds of improvements to the default tilesets are under consideration? I've used NWNCQ for the last two years to upgrade the default tilesets in my modules. Except for a few minor glitches that could stand fixing, I generally consider it to fulfill the needs of a "default tileset improvement" project.

On Bannor's comment regarding texture reuse: that is one of the sometimes unfortunate consequences of combining tilesets. In Sanctum 3 I decided to use both NWNCQ and Seasonal Forest (among others). I used mostly the spring variant of SF, which does use some of the default textures, and which NWNCQ replaces. The result is that the SF forests look noticeably different with NWNCQ installed. I was fortunate in that I ended up liking the end result and keeping it, but it could easily have gone the other way. So I definitely approve of the CTP approach to keeping its texture names distinct -- it saves builders like me a lot of potential hassle.

Modifié par AndarianTD, 25 août 2012 - 12:14 .

[Shadooow]

The original idea was to add new tiles, possibly new terrains and groups. There is no need to improve the graphical aspects as that is handling NWNCQ already and very well indeed.

But im off this project anyway. Now this depends on anyone willing to make this happen.

[Borden Haelven]

*Throws 2 pennies in*
With regard texture naming conventions. How about ctp_ and ncq_ as prefixes? It would certainly clarify things. I personally always use drb_ on mine.  Just realised CTP do that already DOH! I've got lot's of spare time to help out if anyones interested by the way.

Modifié par Borden Haelven, 25 août 2012 - 02:57 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

Just my 2 cents but i have to disagree that NWNCQ is realy improving the overall feeling. As I tested it ingame it looked almost everywhere out of place and lots of geometry changes (an example are the side pillars in the crypt) eventually screw up original areas. When you override a tileset dont mess with the original placement and only improve, replace and retexture a specific element but stay very close to givin shape. Many textures are also way to blurry and different looking to what NWN is like and the lens effects to be honest are strange at best, well to be true I just dont like it;)

this is nothing against the effort chico has done and I like the diversity from many authors. But dont make anything like this "a default" please.

My own preference would besomething like tom banjos forest for the original one, there you have a realy enhanced version texture and expansion wise and on the other hand you have not to worry that anything else look like it comes from a different game;)

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 25 août 2012 - 03:48 .

[Zwerkules]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

this is nothing against the effort chico has done and I like the diversity from many authors. But dont make anything like this "a default" please.

Yes, please don't make blurred textures with pseudo bump maps and cluttered tiles that block movement where they shouldn't or have objects you can walk through the default.

[Pstemarie]

I had at one point replaced all the crates and barrels in City Interior 2, but alas I can't find the files 

These types of improvements are definitive IMO and is something I'll be tackling for my module/PW project - along with adding ceilings but only for the tiles I use. I'm not too keen on "fixing" up a ton of tiles just to have them sit in a hak and not being used by the module - waste of space that could be used for other resources.

Modifié par Pstemarie, 25 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

@Pstemarie, I do the same whenever i have some time/fun to work on some of the original stuff to make it a bit more 1.69 like;)

[Fester Pot]

NWN_baba yaga wrote...

Just my 2 cents but i have to disagree that NWNCQ is realy improving the overall feeling. As I tested it ingame it looked almost everywhere out of place and lots of geometry changes (an example are the side pillars in the crypt) eventually screw up original areas. When you override a tileset dont mess with the original placement and only improve, replace and retexture a specific element but stay very close to givin shape. Many textures are also way to blurry and different looking to what NWN is like and the lens effects to be honest are strange at best, well to be true I just dont like it;)

this is nothing against the effort chico has done and I like the diversity from many authors. But dont make anything like this "a default" please.

My own preference would besomething like tom banjos forest for the original one, there you have a realy enhanced version texture and expansion wise and on the other hand you have not to worry that anything else look like it comes from a different game;)

Yaga! Rrrraaawwwwrrrr!

This is why I actually build with NWNCQ in my override folder, so when designing areas, I'm aware of the graphical "additions" that were included, and build around them. Although the two modules I've built can be played by anyone with the NWNCQ override - without causing serious problems - only one spot in the second module has an issue from these additions.

I also do like how the entire package takes care of textures for the tilesets, without having to download multiple files from different authors, and rather than building with it as a HAK requirement, simply adding in a text file that NWNCQ override will work, leaves it up to the player, and I like that as a builder.

What I'd like, is for all tilesets to migrate the 1.69 textures and look that Castle Exterior: Rural brought us, and Tom Banjo's Forest Expansion is a good example.

FP!

[NWN_baba yaga]

[AndarianTD]

Fester Pot wrote...

Although the two modules I've built can be played by anyone with the NWNCQ override - without causing serious problems - only one spot in the second module has an issue from these additions.

I'm pretty much with FP on this. Updated my two mods a couple of years ago using NWNCQ and only ran into one place where the geometry changes required some minor rework. I've noticed some of what BY is talking about, and that's part of what I meant by "minor issues" that could stand some fixing. But for the most part I don't find them to be problematic.

What I'd like, is for all tilesets to migrate the 1.69 textures and look that Castle Exterior: Rural brought us, and Tom Banjo's Forest Expansion is a good example.

I second the recommendation of TB's Forest in this context.

[Daijin]

Just a head's up, some NWNCQ tiles prevent creature drops, i had to find them and delete them.

[henesua]

I used to be more of a proponent for NWNCQ. I liked how the textures improved upon the base textures, and carried that through your module.

However, I've developed a more discerning eye in the two years I've been using NWNCQ, and don't use it anymore. While I do tire of the push for everything to look like DLA's work, which is a bit drab colorwise in my opinion, they did get the scale of material in their textures down right. NWNCQ does not meet this criteria. The scale of those textures is much too large.

Something with the fantastical brightness of NWNCQ but a proper scale and better attention paid to details would be a welcome addition in my view.

I also like how six's textures are muted/desaturated like DLA's are, but still have a greater richness to them. That kind of work is also welcome. Zwerkules has also done some great work with nicer greens and earth tones. And baba yaga's spidercaves weave together a nice mix of bright pinks and mottling into the black of those caves.

Don't get me wrong. I like DLA's work. But the grass color and rock color and water color is wearing thin on me.

Modifié par henesua, 25 août 2012 - 08:28 .

[NWN_baba yaga]

Good thing with _six textures is that he manages to create a unique look for each of his work. And some of tno textures, a specific brickstone texture (tno_stone011) is used to death imo. I have a love/ hate relationship developed for it. It´s a texture that is 50% realistic and 50% NWN and I cant do just one single new building with that texture anymore. When you work on a single feature it always looks good but then you go into toolset and place down the other buildings and BAM... not again this brick man, it´s madness! I have a new texture created that is similar to tno_stone11:



You can use it as a replacement texture but it will look much better with the right UVtiling. I did this one for my new city tileset.

And my outskirt grass:

p.s. problem with these brick textures is you cant just texture it onto a big wall and think it will look good later. Either you have to create different versions, a 1024 one with different regions within or the texture looks dull in the end imo.


pps.
the texture quality is a bit better in the tga version. so if your interested and dont want to wait until i can release any of these tileset wips just ask and i´ll upload some stuff you might find usefull as well;)

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 25 août 2012 - 09:28 .

[Pstemarie]

Nice textures. Personally, I like the DLA stuff but I do agree that its overused. If you look in the x3 key file you'll see that they included a great many textures, many of which are ignored (a pity) when people reskin things.

[NWN_baba yaga]

A way i work to keep things a bit in style with xp3 is to make the first layer/background with a texture from them that matches the texture i want to create and then fade in and out trough the process untill i´m happy with both, my own and their style.

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 25 août 2012 - 09:12 .

[Master Jax]

Love the ideas and textures Baba. Totally agree. My re-textures are actually a little more diverse. I go tile by tile, incorporating what texture I think suits best for each model, so I have a wiiiiiiiiide array of options. However, yours are a great addition. Just one thing... high-res looks much better. I know it is heavy and a hassle for some, but the difference, especially on newer cards, is astonishing.

[NWN_baba yaga]

I still prefer to have some 256 textures and 128 for lots of things. With the correct unwrapping or tiling the result isnt that bad if you dont look at everything just for the closeup;) I never thought it´s a good idea to use 512 textures for non dominant details in a scene (a rope texture of 64 if you´re a good texturizer is enough), but thats just my own perspective. Where I use 1024 (which is already highres to me) is some new bricks I made for the city tileset. The scale of the bricks is almost the same but I gave the texture a variety in them. So the result for the houses is they almost have a bit of a different structure and your not looking at just a "brickwall" street;)

Modifié par NWN_baba yaga, 26 août 2012 - 11:18 .